My opinion on modern diesels. Do you agree?
Discussion
From my own personal experience I have found it cheaper running even large engined petrols as opposed to a modern diesel. The reason for this being the diesels I've had have all needed work doing including DMF, injectors, turbos, dpf and egr problems, etc.
I'm not talking about leasing a brand new diesel or buying a new one and using it as it's meant to be used (motorway style driving) I'm talking about the diesels a lot of people buy trying to 'save money' - the second hand, possibly clogged up diesel, some with expensive belt changes (TDI)
Personally I think it's a false economy and wish I'd just bought the v8 I wanted ages ago - especially something like a lexus which chances are just will not go wrong even at a ropey low second hand price.
Alright, some people swear by boras or octavia tdi's and the like, and I'm sure they are good cars if used properly and looked after well from new - you may be lucky and have one that's trouble free and does 55 to the gallon for years - great, but as we know this isn't always the case.
Am I right or am I wrong? Generally speaking....
I'm not talking about leasing a brand new diesel or buying a new one and using it as it's meant to be used (motorway style driving) I'm talking about the diesels a lot of people buy trying to 'save money' - the second hand, possibly clogged up diesel, some with expensive belt changes (TDI)
Personally I think it's a false economy and wish I'd just bought the v8 I wanted ages ago - especially something like a lexus which chances are just will not go wrong even at a ropey low second hand price.
Alright, some people swear by boras or octavia tdi's and the like, and I'm sure they are good cars if used properly and looked after well from new - you may be lucky and have one that's trouble free and does 55 to the gallon for years - great, but as we know this isn't always the case.
Am I right or am I wrong? Generally speaking....
All depends on how they're used surely?
The people that buy a diesel to "save money" and only potter around town are fools.
The people that buy a diesel to save money on fuel costs and use it for a decent length motorway commute, not so much.
I can only go by my experience, but since I bought my A3 back in February last year, I've done ~38k miles. In that time it's averaged a gnats cock under 49mpg, the only thing that's gone wrong is the battery stopped holding charge, and a rear spring broke. Outside of that, everything has been routine servicing & maintenance. I've not had a single one of the problems that everyone seems to guarantee a diesel will have. Funnily enough didn't have any of them on my old 120D, or the S40 I owned for a brief while.
It's saved me a fortune really, those 38k miles have cost me just under £4,500 in diesel. If I'd kept the Mini Cooper S I had before to do the same job, it would have cost me ~£7,000 in petrol.
The people that buy a diesel to "save money" and only potter around town are fools.
The people that buy a diesel to save money on fuel costs and use it for a decent length motorway commute, not so much.
I can only go by my experience, but since I bought my A3 back in February last year, I've done ~38k miles. In that time it's averaged a gnats cock under 49mpg, the only thing that's gone wrong is the battery stopped holding charge, and a rear spring broke. Outside of that, everything has been routine servicing & maintenance. I've not had a single one of the problems that everyone seems to guarantee a diesel will have. Funnily enough didn't have any of them on my old 120D, or the S40 I owned for a brief while.
It's saved me a fortune really, those 38k miles have cost me just under £4,500 in diesel. If I'd kept the Mini Cooper S I had before to do the same job, it would have cost me ~£7,000 in petrol.
If running for a year or two, a diesel is cheaper because it's mainly fuel, road tax and insurance. Maybe pads if you happen to pick the car up at that stage, maybe tyres too, but that's not an engine difference.
People roll the dice on cars on how much it's going to cost them to run really, then when expensive bills come up it's either one of those things or it's a nightmare.
If you buy a car to own for a while then you've got to consider whether/when along the timeline the diesel engine faults are going to crop up and if they are then how much that's going to cost. Example; run a Mk3 Mondeo anywhere between 0-59/80-120k because at 60k onwards the injectors and DMF are more likely to start going wonky. Not that the absolutely will at 59,999 but it's more likely after 60k
People roll the dice on cars on how much it's going to cost them to run really, then when expensive bills come up it's either one of those things or it's a nightmare.
If you buy a car to own for a while then you've got to consider whether/when along the timeline the diesel engine faults are going to crop up and if they are then how much that's going to cost. Example; run a Mk3 Mondeo anywhere between 0-59/80-120k because at 60k onwards the injectors and DMF are more likely to start going wonky. Not that the absolutely will at 59,999 but it's more likely after 60k
I think knowing how it's been used previously before you bought it would be a bonus because you never know how it's been driven - a low mileage 10 year old diesel might of been used to go a few miles a day without heating up properly or it could of been used twice a week for a long ish motorway drive.
One diesel I had which didn't go wrong was my X reg Octavia, but I didn't really keep it long enough to be stung with a problem - the likelihood of having a problem with a second hand diesel is what puts me off another. Sure I'd love amazing economy, I do 350 odd miles a week or more, but in the case of my last two diesels I could of ran a 4.3 lexus V8 and be better off, even considering the halved fuel economy, and had a nicer driving experience in the process
One diesel I had which didn't go wrong was my X reg Octavia, but I didn't really keep it long enough to be stung with a problem - the likelihood of having a problem with a second hand diesel is what puts me off another. Sure I'd love amazing economy, I do 350 odd miles a week or more, but in the case of my last two diesels I could of ran a 4.3 lexus V8 and be better off, even considering the halved fuel economy, and had a nicer driving experience in the process
I think it all depends on the car you buy in the first place the 05 CLK 270cdi I had as my daily sailed past 130K Needing only a suspension refresh new water pump & airflow meter I averaged 41.2mpg over 50k I know my 55AMG didn't get anywhere near that 21.8mpg & cost more to run.
My CLK320cdi is averaging 41.8mpg so far but no unwanted bills but it only has 53k on the clock.
I understand your point but it doesn't apply to every diesel car a lot do big mileages without a problem also buying a 2.0 tdi & only using it for short journeys will kill the DPF & your wallet, so buying the right engine for your needs is a big factor.
DMF's are on almost every manual car these days leaky injectors effects a lot of cars & with more petrol (coils packs failing on petrols) engines having turbos expect the same kind of problems to start effecting those to.
If your man maths means you can get a 430 Lexus then go for it
My CLK320cdi is averaging 41.8mpg so far but no unwanted bills but it only has 53k on the clock.
I understand your point but it doesn't apply to every diesel car a lot do big mileages without a problem also buying a 2.0 tdi & only using it for short journeys will kill the DPF & your wallet, so buying the right engine for your needs is a big factor.
DMF's are on almost every manual car these days leaky injectors effects a lot of cars & with more petrol (coils packs failing on petrols) engines having turbos expect the same kind of problems to start effecting those to.
If your man maths means you can get a 430 Lexus then go for it
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 26th June 08:02
RicksAlfas said:
OP, don't forget that modern petrol engines are becoming far more complicated too...
This Is true, but comparing at present with say a ten year old mondeo 2.0 petrol with a ten year old 2.0 tdci - I know which I'd rather buy for cheap motoring... The diesel would be great if it didn't throw up any problems but there's less luck involved with the petrol example ZX10R NIN said:
I think it all depends on the car you buy in the first place the 05 CLK 270cdi I had as my daily sailed past 130K Needing only a suspension refresh new water pump & airflow meter I averaged 41.2mpg over 50k I know my 55AMG didn't get anywhere near that 21.8mpg & cost more to run.
My CLK320cdi is averaging 41.8mpg so far but no unwanted bills but it only has 53k on the clock.
I understand your point but it doesn't apply to every diesel car a lot do big mileages without a problem also buying a 2.0 tdi & only using it for short journeys will kill the DPF & your wallet, so buying the right engine for your needs is a big factor.
DMF's are on almost every manual car these days leaky injectors effects a lot of cars & with more petrol (coils packs failing on petrols) engines having turbos expect the same kind of problems to start effecting those to.
If your man maths means you can get a 430 Lexus then go for it
A dmf on a petrol is considerably less likely to fail however, but a common failure on dieselsMy CLK320cdi is averaging 41.8mpg so far but no unwanted bills but it only has 53k on the clock.
I understand your point but it doesn't apply to every diesel car a lot do big mileages without a problem also buying a 2.0 tdi & only using it for short journeys will kill the DPF & your wallet, so buying the right engine for your needs is a big factor.
DMF's are on almost every manual car these days leaky injectors effects a lot of cars & with more petrol (coils packs failing on petrols) engines having turbos expect the same kind of problems to start effecting those to.
If your man maths means you can get a 430 Lexus then go for it
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 26th June 08:02
I see your point and of course I'd never buy a diesel to run to tesco and back in - but I'd buy it intending on doing big mileage not knowing what it's been doing before I bought it - big risk
Genuine and actual proven man maths might I add (especially if her indoors is listening!!)
I do have a 10 year old diesel, owned from new. Not really interested in buying a new car (prefer to do any blasting about on the motorbike) as for the most part its a tool from a to b with reasonable turn of pace (150tdi Leon fr) but since it's just gone over 100k miles it's not going to be worth much to sell. That said it happily does 520+ miles to a tank before the light comes on and I don't hang about, for the most part. It has a few noises and gripes, but then so do I. The turbo went bang at 70k miles and it's coming up to another belt/pump change (end of month) but I've serviced it (every filter and oil) every 10k miles and otherwise it hasn't cost me much bar brakes and tyres. Oh, and a different interior. Golf seats. The Leon seats are shocking and wear out in less than 50k miles. Bolsters.
So it depends what you mean by 'modern' diesels. Mine was the last year (05) that I can remember before things started to get really complicated with sensors and filters and what not to reduce smog. When the warranty runs out on a modern vehicle I dread to think about all the dealers rubbing their hands to cash in on hapless owners having to shell out for work. Seen it already with cars needing the front bumper off to get to the headlights for a bulb. Bonkers.
If I need a car change will just get one through work on the fuel n go scheme. Pay a set fee and you just put fuel in. Then give the keys back at the end to get another, let them worry about the warning lights, depreciation and impending bills/doom.
So it depends what you mean by 'modern' diesels. Mine was the last year (05) that I can remember before things started to get really complicated with sensors and filters and what not to reduce smog. When the warranty runs out on a modern vehicle I dread to think about all the dealers rubbing their hands to cash in on hapless owners having to shell out for work. Seen it already with cars needing the front bumper off to get to the headlights for a bulb. Bonkers.
If I need a car change will just get one through work on the fuel n go scheme. Pay a set fee and you just put fuel in. Then give the keys back at the end to get another, let them worry about the warning lights, depreciation and impending bills/doom.
I've been driving Diesel cars for about 25 years, vans for about 30 years and tractors for about 40 years. I don't think I'll ever change as far as vans and tractors is concerned, but unless things change soon, I've bought my last diesel car.
I've loved Peugot/Citroen DTurbos and HDIs, early Tdi Volkswagens , 200tdi Landrovers and an glorious chugger of a 3 litre NA six cylinder Mercedes, but since the advent of EGRs, DPFs and the like, most of the diesel's advantages have been negated.
I've loved Peugot/Citroen DTurbos and HDIs, early Tdi Volkswagens , 200tdi Landrovers and an glorious chugger of a 3 litre NA six cylinder Mercedes, but since the advent of EGRs, DPFs and the like, most of the diesel's advantages have been negated.
I say get yourself into one of these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The reason I say this is because the 270cdi has the benefit of not having a DPF filter also being an auto no DMF issues either, as long as the gearbox fluids have been changed (£165 job over £100 in fluids & filters make sure you get genuine parts) they will just run.
They seem to knock out there electric booster at around 100k (this is a pre heater that means you get hot air within 20 secs of getting in the car) but it makes no difference to the car I never fixed mine.
Also there are no cambelts to worry about either so OP.
For what it costs to run my CLK63 or the 55 the 320 costs less than half for the same mileage my old 270 would have cost less again but only by £85.
With your Lexus averaging 27mpg at best if it's all motorway & something like the 270/320 getting 49's, plus with petrol/diesel at £5.30/£5.35 over 18K you'd need some big bills to swing it back in favor of the Lexus.
Look the OH won't know but you can admit to us that you bought a couple of dud TDCI's so you could have a bit of V8 in your life we understand & salute your guile & cunning. 
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The reason I say this is because the 270cdi has the benefit of not having a DPF filter also being an auto no DMF issues either, as long as the gearbox fluids have been changed (£165 job over £100 in fluids & filters make sure you get genuine parts) they will just run.
They seem to knock out there electric booster at around 100k (this is a pre heater that means you get hot air within 20 secs of getting in the car) but it makes no difference to the car I never fixed mine.
Also there are no cambelts to worry about either so OP.
For what it costs to run my CLK63 or the 55 the 320 costs less than half for the same mileage my old 270 would have cost less again but only by £85.
With your Lexus averaging 27mpg at best if it's all motorway & something like the 270/320 getting 49's, plus with petrol/diesel at £5.30/£5.35 over 18K you'd need some big bills to swing it back in favor of the Lexus.
Look the OH won't know but you can admit to us that you bought a couple of dud TDCI's so you could have a bit of V8 in your life
we understand & salute your guile & cunning. Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 26th June 08:48
apness said:
I do have a 10 year old diesel, owned from new. Not really interested in buying a new car (prefer to do any blasting about on the motorbike) as for the most part its a tool from a to b with reasonable turn of pace (150tdi Leon fr) but since it's just gone over 100k miles it's not going to be worth much to sell. That said it happily does 520+ miles to a tank before the light comes on and I don't hang about, for the most part. It has a few noises and gripes, but then so do I. The turbo went bang at 70k miles and it's coming up to another belt/pump change (end of month) but I've serviced it (every filter and oil) every 10k miles and otherwise it hasn't cost me much bar brakes and tyres. Oh, and a different interior. Golf seats. The Leon seats are shocking and wear out in less than 50k miles. Bolsters.
So it depends what you mean by 'modern' diesels. Mine was the last year (05) that I can remember before things started to get really complicated with sensors and filters and what not to reduce smog. When the warranty runs out on a modern vehicle I dread to think about all the dealers rubbing their hands to cash in on hapless owners having to shell out for work. Seen it already with cars needing the front bumper off to get to the headlights for a bulb. Bonkers.
If I need a car change will just get one through work on the fuel n go scheme. Pay a set fee and you just put fuel in. Then give the keys back at the end to get another, let them worry about the warning lights, depreciation and impending bills/doom.
I definitely would be weary of buying a new one now - I've thought about the lease scheme at work but there's only the choice of a Nissan quashqai or however you spell it, juke (puke) or note. I Like you would much rather hand the keys back and get a new one every year than worth about it myself... So it depends what you mean by 'modern' diesels. Mine was the last year (05) that I can remember before things started to get really complicated with sensors and filters and what not to reduce smog. When the warranty runs out on a modern vehicle I dread to think about all the dealers rubbing their hands to cash in on hapless owners having to shell out for work. Seen it already with cars needing the front bumper off to get to the headlights for a bulb. Bonkers.
If I need a car change will just get one through work on the fuel n go scheme. Pay a set fee and you just put fuel in. Then give the keys back at the end to get another, let them worry about the warning lights, depreciation and impending bills/doom.
I have been tempted recently by another VAG tdi, around the ten years old mark like the octavia I had, just got work and back, but been a bit scared by the potential bills. I suppose I don't want to spend time in a bland car for the fuel economy if it goes bad and I may as well off been in a massive luxobarge instead anyway
ZX10R NIN said:
I say get yourself into one of these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The reason I say this is because the 270cdi has the benefit of not having a DPF filter also being an auto no DMF issues either, as long as the gearbox fluids have been changed (£165 job over £100 in fluids & filters make sure you get genuine parts) they will just run.
They seem to knock out there electric booster at around 100k (this is a pre heater that means you get hot air within 20 secs of getting in the car) but it makes no difference to the car I never fixed mine.
Also there are no cambelts to worry about either so OP.
I will have a good look Into these, thanks for the advice! I've never been keen on mercs but it's better than the alternative a to b diesels especially if it doesn't break like one! http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The reason I say this is because the 270cdi has the benefit of not having a DPF filter also being an auto no DMF issues either, as long as the gearbox fluids have been changed (£165 job over £100 in fluids & filters make sure you get genuine parts) they will just run.
They seem to knock out there electric booster at around 100k (this is a pre heater that means you get hot air within 20 secs of getting in the car) but it makes no difference to the car I never fixed mine.
Also there are no cambelts to worry about either so OP.
The only cheap diesel I've had were normally aspirated French cars, a Pug 205 and a Citroen ZX. Absolutely nothing to go wromg, not even electric windows, cheaper than walking, but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Mind you I was in economise mode so performance wasn't even in the tick list.
Smokehead said:
The only cheap diesel I've had were normally aspirated French cars, a Pug 205 and a Citroen ZX. Absolutely nothing to go wromg, not even electric windows, cheaper than walking, but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Mind you I was in economise mode so performance wasn't even in the tick list.
My parents had an AX and if I remember rightly it was a 1.0 diesel non turbo!! I could be wrong... But it ran on fresh air! Literally a fiver would last forever... It did blow about on the motorway though Ghost91 said:
From my own personal experience I have found it cheaper running even large engined petrols as opposed to a modern diesel. The reason for this being the diesels I've had have all needed work doing including DMF, injectors, turbos, dpf and egr problems, etc.
I'm not talking about leasing a brand new diesel or buying a new one and using it as it's meant to be used (motorway style driving) I'm talking about the diesels a lot of people buy trying to 'save money' - the second hand, possibly clogged up diesel, some with expensive belt changes (TDI)
Personally I think it's a false economy and wish I'd just bought the v8 I wanted ages ago - especially something like a lexus which chances are just will not go wrong even at a ropey low second hand price.
Alright, some people swear by boras or octavia tdi's and the like, and I'm sure they are good cars if used properly and looked after well from new - you may be lucky and have one that's trouble free and does 55 to the gallon for years - great, but as we know this isn't always the case.
Am I right or am I wrong? Generally speaking....
If you were comparing a diesel with a typical petrol i.e. not a V8 and you're only doing low to average miles then I agree. However most V8s are rather thirsty. I'm not talking about leasing a brand new diesel or buying a new one and using it as it's meant to be used (motorway style driving) I'm talking about the diesels a lot of people buy trying to 'save money' - the second hand, possibly clogged up diesel, some with expensive belt changes (TDI)
Personally I think it's a false economy and wish I'd just bought the v8 I wanted ages ago - especially something like a lexus which chances are just will not go wrong even at a ropey low second hand price.
Alright, some people swear by boras or octavia tdi's and the like, and I'm sure they are good cars if used properly and looked after well from new - you may be lucky and have one that's trouble free and does 55 to the gallon for years - great, but as we know this isn't always the case.
Am I right or am I wrong? Generally speaking....
Diesels can throw up big bills but then so can a petrol car.
My wife ran a Mazda 6 diesel for 5 years and it didn't have any major bills due to failures, at least not ones that were the cars fault! We bought it when it was 5 years old as well. My diesel Focus is the same aside from a DMF failure but the savings on fuel more than made up for this.
If you don't do lots of miles and do lots of short runs buy a petrol, but don't try and convince yourself that a V8 will be cheaper to run
Smokehead said:
The only cheap diesel I've had were normally aspirated French cars, a Pug 205 and a Citroen ZX. Absolutely nothing to go wromg, not even electric windows, cheaper than walking, but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Mind you I was in economise mode so performance wasn't even in the tick list.
A mate of mine ran a 309gld (non turbo) and it handle amazing for a blandmobile. Plus it seemed quite nippy. On twisty B Roads he would leave so called faster stuff, though he could also do the same in a Fiat Panda 1.0 held together by string and duct tape (doors) and 1.4l Mk4 Escort that refused to do anything but go despite the thrashing. Bit of a come down from his first car (MK2 RS2000) daddy bought him but his dad was fed up of the bills. Insurance on one of those at 18. Eeek.Makes me wonder what a 309 GTI would have been like, or a TD. Back in the day I'll bet they were wolfs in sheeps clothing.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff