My opinion on modern diesels. Do you agree?
Discussion
Tomo1971 said:
This.
Diesels are becoming more complicated to clean them up, petrols are becoming more complicated to better the MPG. They also are getting smaller/lighter..... there will be a difference in a huge v8 and a small 1.0 3 cyl dragging a car along the road in terms of longevity.
Im not going to completely agree with the modern petrol getting more complicated, more efficient yes. Have you ever see the vacuum line setup of a VAG AUM 2.0T engine? Its literally a rats nest of vacuum lines that love to fail. Compare that to my Cadillac 2.8 V6 turbo (same engine as a Saab 9-3 aero and Vauxhall Vectra VXR), I think there is literally 2 vacuum lines on that entire engine.Diesels are becoming more complicated to clean them up, petrols are becoming more complicated to better the MPG. They also are getting smaller/lighter..... there will be a difference in a huge v8 and a small 1.0 3 cyl dragging a car along the road in terms of longevity.
Back in the US where I am from most older vehicles still on the road are large, under-stressed V8's. I had a 1996 Mustang GT 4.6 V8 that had almost 200k miles that just would not die!
ZX10R NIN said:
Yes I do have experience of the 270 I put 60K on my CLK 270 & had no issues I had to do the Gearbox service & changed the suspension for coilovers (I just couldn't help myself all I had to do was replace the £30 drop links) they are good cruisers, the interiors are nice & comfortable.
If you could find the extra then a facelifted 04 onwards version has a nicer interior.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Thanks for the advice, it's definitely something to consider now. I'll have a good look around on fleabay and auto trader to see what's around, wouldn't mind the facelift one as the interior is a massive improvement! I'll let you know how I get on, I've got a couple of test drives arranged tomorrow so I will try and add a 270 to the list. How do you find the auto box? There's a lad at work with a diesel clk on an '07 and he hates it but he has completely neglected his car, it's probably knackered, so I can't base any real opinion on his example. If you could find the extra then a facelifted 04 onwards version has a nicer interior.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Ghost91 said:
Thanks for the advice, it's definitely something to consider now. I'll have a good look around on fleabay and auto trader to see what's around, wouldn't mind the facelift one as the interior is a massive improvement! I'll let you know how I get on, I've got a couple of test drives arranged tomorrow so I will try and add a 270 to the list. How do you find the auto box? There's a lad at work with a diesel clk on an '07 and he hates it but he has completely neglected his car, it's probably knackered, so I can't base any real opinion on his example.
The auto is fine in fact it suits the car better than the manual, also remember (if you drive one tomorrow) that they will pull away in 2nd unless you have it on S.I've found the auto box makes the car a more relaxing place to be & helps the miles slip by.
ZX10R NIN said:
I say get yourself into one of these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The reason I say this is because the 270cdi has the benefit of not having a DPF filter also being an auto no DMF issues either, as long as the gearbox fluids have been changed (£165 job over £100 in fluids & filters make sure you get genuine parts) they will just run.
They seem to knock out there electric booster at around 100k (this is a pre heater that means you get hot air within 20 secs of getting in the car) but it makes no difference to the car I never fixed mine.
Also there are no cambelts to worry about either so OP.
For what it costs to run my CLK63 or the 55 the 320 costs less than half for the same mileage my old 270 would have cost less again but only by £85.
With your Lexus averaging 27mpg at best if it's all motorway & something like the 270/320 getting 49's, plus with petrol/diesel at £5.30/£5.35 over 18K you'd need some big bills to swing it back in favor of the Lexus.
Look the OH won't know but you can admit to us that you bought a couple of dud TDCI's so you could have a bit of V8 in your life
we understand & salute your guile & cunning. 
I had a Lexus LS430 and ran it on LPG - circa 50mpg equivalent from 100k to 180k in 3 and a bit years. I changed a light bulb and Lambda sensor in that time. Cheapest car I have ever owned.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The reason I say this is because the 270cdi has the benefit of not having a DPF filter also being an auto no DMF issues either, as long as the gearbox fluids have been changed (£165 job over £100 in fluids & filters make sure you get genuine parts) they will just run.
They seem to knock out there electric booster at around 100k (this is a pre heater that means you get hot air within 20 secs of getting in the car) but it makes no difference to the car I never fixed mine.
Also there are no cambelts to worry about either so OP.
For what it costs to run my CLK63 or the 55 the 320 costs less than half for the same mileage my old 270 would have cost less again but only by £85.
With your Lexus averaging 27mpg at best if it's all motorway & something like the 270/320 getting 49's, plus with petrol/diesel at £5.30/£5.35 over 18K you'd need some big bills to swing it back in favor of the Lexus.
Look the OH won't know but you can admit to us that you bought a couple of dud TDCI's so you could have a bit of V8 in your life
we understand & salute your guile & cunning. Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 26th June 08:48
Mine's under warranty. I don't worry about the complexity.
Mind you, diesels are awful things from a petrolhead's perspective. My wife (a petrolhead who would easily spank 95% of PHers in the F1 knowledge stakes and whose favourite person ever is Francois Cevere, I digress...), remarked today, as I enforced a 'high' rev kickdown in my 4 pot repmobile 320d, "it actually sounds like it has an engine!". Sums it up. No real joy in working it, but it's effective and is about 12mpg better off than a petrol with equivalent power.
Given a fuel card and an understanding employer, I'd take the petrol every time.
Mind you, diesels are awful things from a petrolhead's perspective. My wife (a petrolhead who would easily spank 95% of PHers in the F1 knowledge stakes and whose favourite person ever is Francois Cevere, I digress...), remarked today, as I enforced a 'high' rev kickdown in my 4 pot repmobile 320d, "it actually sounds like it has an engine!". Sums it up. No real joy in working it, but it's effective and is about 12mpg better off than a petrol with equivalent power.
Given a fuel card and an understanding employer, I'd take the petrol every time.
Scanning the thread, there seems to be an anti derv bandwagon forming....
I like driving, and I ride a 1000cc bike for fun, but I'll admit that I think the way diesels produce their power and torque suits the way I use, and what I use the car for. I appreciate that others will think differently, but it's different strokes for different folks.
As for reliability, yes of course modern diesels have became more complex, but modern patrols are equally moving in this direction. Equally, I don't think the DPF/EGR etc are the massively costly issues as they once were.
Thinking about the cars I've driven for work in the last 10 years or so, the faults over and above servicing and tyres brakes have been:
Passat Highline 2.0 TDI 30-70K, No issues.
BMW 320D SE, 45k-105K, failed turbo the day before it was due back to the leasing company.
Audi A3 2.0TDI, 30-60K, cracked exhaust manifold at 55K
Vauxhall Insignia 2.0CDTI ,25-100K No issues
Vauxhall Insignia 2.0CDTI, 14-105K, power steering pipe came loose.
BMW 318D, 47-105K, Dual Mass flywheel failed at 99K, needed two injectors at the same time.
Current car, an E90 330D I've only has for about 7.5K and I've had to replace the EGR cooler which developed a split, part was about £270 from BMW.
So in my experience, although I've had a few issues, I don't think any of the faults are diesel specific? Well maybe the EGR cooler?
If I needed a car to cover low mileage around town, small petrol. Track days/Fun, powerful petrol. slogging up and down motorways, Diesel.
I like driving, and I ride a 1000cc bike for fun, but I'll admit that I think the way diesels produce their power and torque suits the way I use, and what I use the car for. I appreciate that others will think differently, but it's different strokes for different folks.
As for reliability, yes of course modern diesels have became more complex, but modern patrols are equally moving in this direction. Equally, I don't think the DPF/EGR etc are the massively costly issues as they once were.
Thinking about the cars I've driven for work in the last 10 years or so, the faults over and above servicing and tyres brakes have been:
Passat Highline 2.0 TDI 30-70K, No issues.
BMW 320D SE, 45k-105K, failed turbo the day before it was due back to the leasing company.
Audi A3 2.0TDI, 30-60K, cracked exhaust manifold at 55K
Vauxhall Insignia 2.0CDTI ,25-100K No issues
Vauxhall Insignia 2.0CDTI, 14-105K, power steering pipe came loose.
BMW 318D, 47-105K, Dual Mass flywheel failed at 99K, needed two injectors at the same time.
Current car, an E90 330D I've only has for about 7.5K and I've had to replace the EGR cooler which developed a split, part was about £270 from BMW.
So in my experience, although I've had a few issues, I don't think any of the faults are diesel specific? Well maybe the EGR cooler?
If I needed a car to cover low mileage around town, small petrol. Track days/Fun, powerful petrol. slogging up and down motorways, Diesel.
Edited by f1nn on Saturday 27th June 21:00
I must admit, for motorways I do like the way a diesel drives, and the way it delivers the power, in particular the TDI's are nice and smooth accelerating and even a 100bhp variant feels much much quicker and safer overtaking IMO than a 100bhp petrol.
I'd prefer to drive a 1.9 td than I would a small engines petrol, but overall, petrol wins for me, as long as the engine size is adequate or has a turbo I.e. The new fiestas.
All I can go by is my own personal experiences and they've been rubbish and expensive as far as diesels go but the previous poster mentions lots of reliable ones - much newer than I've had so perhaps they've got better
I'd prefer to drive a 1.9 td than I would a small engines petrol, but overall, petrol wins for me, as long as the engine size is adequate or has a turbo I.e. The new fiestas.
All I can go by is my own personal experiences and they've been rubbish and expensive as far as diesels go but the previous poster mentions lots of reliable ones - much newer than I've had so perhaps they've got better
On my 4th diesel now and not had a single problem despite covering 288k miles in the last 7 years.
'53 Focus Sport - 35k-80k miles
'57 Golf 170pd ( the one with all the apparent issues) - 20k-105k miles
'11 Leon FR 170cr - 0-75k miles
'13 320d - 0-83k (still got it)
I can imagine they can be problematic if not maintained correctly or driven on longer journeys but my ownership experience to date is faultless.
'53 Focus Sport - 35k-80k miles
'57 Golf 170pd ( the one with all the apparent issues) - 20k-105k miles
'11 Leon FR 170cr - 0-75k miles
'13 320d - 0-83k (still got it)
I can imagine they can be problematic if not maintained correctly or driven on longer journeys but my ownership experience to date is faultless.
yonex said:
I won't be buying another diesel until I need to do at least 30K a year. The savings on fuel are fine but one issue with a modern diesel and you've lost all the advantage. In the meantime you put up with a crappy powerband and generally frustrating package.
Sounds like you chose the wrong diesel.Ghost91 said:
From my own personal experience I have found it cheaper running even large engined petrols as opposed to a modern diesel. The reason for this being the diesels I've had have all needed work doing including DMF, injectors, turbos, dpf and egr problems, etc.
I'm not talking about leasing a brand new diesel or buying a new one and using it as it's meant to be used (motorway style driving) I'm talking about the diesels a lot of people buy trying to 'save money' - the second hand, possibly clogged up diesel, some with expensive belt changes (TDI)
Personally I think it's a false economy and wish I'd just bought the v8 I wanted ages ago - especially something like a lexus which chances are just will not go wrong even at a ropey low second hand price.
Alright, some people swear by boras or octavia tdi's and the like, and I'm sure they are good cars if used properly and looked after well from new - you may be lucky and have one that's trouble free and does 55 to the gallon for years - great, but as we know this isn't always the case.
Am I right or am I wrong? Generally speaking....
You're talking about a very specific scenario for modern diesels whereby its someone doing average miles or less and short runs. Of course they've bought the wrong car. And yes chances are a decent petrol car wouldnt cost them any more to run.I'm not talking about leasing a brand new diesel or buying a new one and using it as it's meant to be used (motorway style driving) I'm talking about the diesels a lot of people buy trying to 'save money' - the second hand, possibly clogged up diesel, some with expensive belt changes (TDI)
Personally I think it's a false economy and wish I'd just bought the v8 I wanted ages ago - especially something like a lexus which chances are just will not go wrong even at a ropey low second hand price.
Alright, some people swear by boras or octavia tdi's and the like, and I'm sure they are good cars if used properly and looked after well from new - you may be lucky and have one that's trouble free and does 55 to the gallon for years - great, but as we know this isn't always the case.
Am I right or am I wrong? Generally speaking....
Unfortunately you cant extrapolate that out and broad brush ALL diesels and ALL diesel buyers with that.
Modern diesels have their place, but its not as broad as it used to be with probably 10+ year old diesels, where you could run an old Bora and get 55+ mpg and have no real issues.
0a said:
My main issue is that even the latest six cylinder diesels are so unrefined - those that say they are okay have cloth ears or are lying!
What are you basing that opinion on as I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, six cylinder diesels are refined as for not having an engine note I beg to differ the noise from the OH's Alpina is great(better than the noise from a 335i) as for refinement then the diesels are more than a match.Take a look at these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIIIyOwSak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM
allergictocheese said:
Mine's under warranty. I don't worry about the complexity.
Mind you, diesels are awful things from a petrolhead's perspective. My wife (a petrolhead who would easily spank 95% of PHers in the F1 knowledge stakes and whose favourite person ever is Francois Cevere, I digress...), remarked today, as I enforced a 'high' rev kickdown in my 4 pot repmobile 320d, "it actually sounds like it has an engine!". Sums it up. No real joy in working it, but it's effective and is about 12mpg better off than a petrol with equivalent power.
Given a fuel card and an understanding employer, I'd take the petrol every time.
I like diesels, I like their range and the fact that thecover much larger distances between fill-ups.Mind you, diesels are awful things from a petrolhead's perspective. My wife (a petrolhead who would easily spank 95% of PHers in the F1 knowledge stakes and whose favourite person ever is Francois Cevere, I digress...), remarked today, as I enforced a 'high' rev kickdown in my 4 pot repmobile 320d, "it actually sounds like it has an engine!". Sums it up. No real joy in working it, but it's effective and is about 12mpg better off than a petrol with equivalent power.
Given a fuel card and an understanding employer, I'd take the petrol every time.
I may not be that big a petrolhead but I do know the name is spelt 'Cevert'.
ZX10R NIN said:
The auto is fine in fact it suits the car better than the manual, also remember (if you drive one tomorrow) that they will pull away in 2nd unless you have it on S.
I've found the auto box makes the car a more relaxing place to be & helps the miles slip by.
Test drove the C class yesterday, couldn't find a facelift nearby so it was a 52 plate. I have to say it was rather nice, relaxing is the right word - both myself and my OH are car hunting at the moment so we were in lots of different cars one after the other and I have to say it was among the nicest to drive on the dual carriageway. I haven't had an auto for a long time and on my daily I think it would be quite nice, plus 170 brake isn't bad!I've found the auto box makes the car a more relaxing place to be & helps the miles slip by.
I'm not hellbent on having one after that but it would sit a lot better with me knowing the dpf and dmf wouldn't be an issue! I think it would be a good daily to run alongside something a bit more unpractical. The one I test drove had receipts for the gearbox oil change this year too... Great recommendation, thanks
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