Man rides bike with child in trailer down dual carriage way
Discussion
DoubleSix said:
pablo said:
I am not a cyclist, I am a father and a husband. Infrequently I use my bicycle to ransport my child to and from nursery should it be necessary.
Most peeople on this thread are failing to appreciate that were we all to ride or drive with courtesy and respect for others, there is actually precious little dangerous about sharing the road with other more vulnerable users.
Unfortuantely hyperbole takes over and peopel rant about 1+ tonnes of metal and squishing children without thinking logically. I am not defending the use of a child trailer on a dual carriageway, I am simply saying its not actually that dangerous. I do find it odd that on a driving enthusiasts website, most people are scared of sharing the road with one though for fear of squishing said child. Its like the moment we drive onto a road with two lanes of traffic or more, the road instantly becomes some sort of weird driving skill neutraliser?... if you can avoid a child trailer on a suburban road or twon centre, you can avoid one at 60mph.
Meanhile, statistics say that 2 car occupants will die in accidents today... and tomorrow, and Wednesday.... so to take the points on board that you are placing your trust in people not to drive over the trailer, yeah point made and I take that, if you cant avoid anohter big shiny brightly coloured car, chances of you avoiding the small trailer are slim....
Fundamental point, driving stndards in the UK are s
t.
Most peeople on this thread are failing to appreciate that were we all to ride or drive with courtesy and respect for others, there is actually precious little dangerous about sharing the road with other more vulnerable users.
Unfortuantely hyperbole takes over and peopel rant about 1+ tonnes of metal and squishing children without thinking logically. I am not defending the use of a child trailer on a dual carriageway, I am simply saying its not actually that dangerous. I do find it odd that on a driving enthusiasts website, most people are scared of sharing the road with one though for fear of squishing said child. Its like the moment we drive onto a road with two lanes of traffic or more, the road instantly becomes some sort of weird driving skill neutraliser?... if you can avoid a child trailer on a suburban road or twon centre, you can avoid one at 60mph.
Meanhile, statistics say that 2 car occupants will die in accidents today... and tomorrow, and Wednesday.... so to take the points on board that you are placing your trust in people not to drive over the trailer, yeah point made and I take that, if you cant avoid anohter big shiny brightly coloured car, chances of you avoiding the small trailer are slim....
Fundamental point, driving stndards in the UK are s
t. 
Oh dear god not another!
Look, nobody is failing to appreciate that but for the umpteenth time that isn't the prevailing situation. It's not even a situation which is vaguely likely to emerge in our lifetimes - this isn't the Netherlands, this isn't Norway. The roads are littered with selfish, ignorant, hurried and harassed individuals to whom your safety barely even features on their consciousness as they go about their daily A to B.
How many times does this have to be re-written for you to understand the basic standpoint from where this argument is positioned?
Do you think it's better that we have the level of poor driving that you obviously think we do?
And what do you think exists in Britain to make our roads particularly harder than Norwegian/Dutch roads to make safer for cyclists? (Granted we have a bigger population, but that's no excuse).
lostkiwi said:
ExPat2B said:
oyster said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
Yet another thread where some cyclists have without doubt proved themselves to be the most stupid SOBs on the face of this Earth.
The irony you seem to have missed is that your claim of stupidity is based on an acceptance that risk is created by bad drivers. So thereby admitting the problem of safety is not one created by cyclists, but by drivers.In which case, surely you must support more measure to make those drivers drive with more care? Perhaps more rigorous training? Lower speed limits? Which is it?
Or is time to get from A to B in our cars more important than the safety of a child in a trailer? Which is it?
ORD said:
oyster said:
ORD said:
Accident risk isn't the only consideration in setting speed limits. Limits are already so low as to be completely out of touch with changes in car safety and technology, and there are very substantial economic costs to lowering them yet further (congestion, wasted travelling time that could be working time, etc).
You'll have to post a link to a scientific model showing how lower speed limits cause congestion. I'd be amazed if there are any as it just doesn't make any sense at all. Congestion is all about volume flow of traffic. Unless you live in the wilderness, volume of vehicles will cause congestion, not speed limits.ORD said:
It is also highly questionable whether lower limits reduce the number of accidents. I feel far safer at 70mph than I do in those absurd 50mph limits on motorways - the road is full of snoozing / texting drivers at those kind of speeds.
Do you really think those drivers don't snooze/text at 70?oyster said:
DoubleSix said:
pablo said:
I am not a cyclist, I am a father and a husband. Infrequently I use my bicycle to ransport my child to and from nursery should it be necessary.
Most peeople on this thread are failing to appreciate that were we all to ride or drive with courtesy and respect for others, there is actually precious little dangerous about sharing the road with other more vulnerable users.
Unfortuantely hyperbole takes over and peopel rant about 1+ tonnes of metal and squishing children without thinking logically. I am not defending the use of a child trailer on a dual carriageway, I am simply saying its not actually that dangerous. I do find it odd that on a driving enthusiasts website, most people are scared of sharing the road with one though for fear of squishing said child. Its like the moment we drive onto a road with two lanes of traffic or more, the road instantly becomes some sort of weird driving skill neutraliser?... if you can avoid a child trailer on a suburban road or twon centre, you can avoid one at 60mph.
Meanhile, statistics say that 2 car occupants will die in accidents today... and tomorrow, and Wednesday.... so to take the points on board that you are placing your trust in people not to drive over the trailer, yeah point made and I take that, if you cant avoid anohter big shiny brightly coloured car, chances of you avoiding the small trailer are slim....
Fundamental point, driving stndards in the UK are st.
Most peeople on this thread are failing to appreciate that were we all to ride or drive with courtesy and respect for others, there is actually precious little dangerous about sharing the road with other more vulnerable users.
Unfortuantely hyperbole takes over and peopel rant about 1+ tonnes of metal and squishing children without thinking logically. I am not defending the use of a child trailer on a dual carriageway, I am simply saying its not actually that dangerous. I do find it odd that on a driving enthusiasts website, most people are scared of sharing the road with one though for fear of squishing said child. Its like the moment we drive onto a road with two lanes of traffic or more, the road instantly becomes some sort of weird driving skill neutraliser?... if you can avoid a child trailer on a suburban road or twon centre, you can avoid one at 60mph.
Meanhile, statistics say that 2 car occupants will die in accidents today... and tomorrow, and Wednesday.... so to take the points on board that you are placing your trust in people not to drive over the trailer, yeah point made and I take that, if you cant avoid anohter big shiny brightly coloured car, chances of you avoiding the small trailer are slim....
Fundamental point, driving stndards in the UK are s
t. Oh dear god not another!
Look, nobody is failing to appreciate that but for the umpteenth time that isn't the prevailing situation. It's not even a situation which is vaguely likely to emerge in our lifetimes - this isn't the Netherlands, this isn't Norway. The roads are littered with selfish, ignorant, hurried and harassed individuals to whom your safety barely even features on their consciousness as they go about their daily A to B.
How many times does this have to be re-written for you to understand the basic standpoint from where this argument is positioned?
Do you think it's better that we have the level of poor driving that you obviously think we do?
And what do you think exists in Britain to make our roads particularly harder than Norwegian/Dutch roads to make safer for cyclists? (Granted we have a bigger population, but that's no excuse).
Those nations have a completed different relationship and attitude to cycling and cyclists.
It's been part of their national identity for generations as a result of which the infrastructure has evolved to reflect this.
Some people think you can take these things and 'adopt' them wholesale overnight, which you cannot. Attempting to do so is at best naive and at worst dangerous (see central London). A bit of paint on the road does not a safe zone make! And attitudes do not shift because a blond buffoon says they should.
For years our government has prioritised the car, we have embraced the car and our small island now reflects those choices. Perhaps not desirable but to pretend it is otherwise is foolish and that's what many cyclists seem to be doing.
Whilst I've resisted saying so on this thread so far I used to cycle professionally and can only shake my head at the evangelistic types that now seem to have over-run what was once a pretty cool group of people. I have distanced myself from the sport because of these people.
Surely the drivers cyclists and roads over here are just as good as in the rest of europe as shown by the safety stats
The little fella in the trailer on the back of the bike will be ok
It's just that we worry a lot that he wont be
and because we worry about things like that we take care about it
Arent we nice
The little fella in the trailer on the back of the bike will be ok
It's just that we worry a lot that he wont be
and because we worry about things like that we take care about it
Arent we nice
saaby93 said:
Surely the drivers cyclists and roads over here are just as good as in the rest of europe as shown by the safety stats
The little fella in the trailer on the back of the bike will be ok
It's just that we worry a lot that he wont be
and because we worry about things like that we take care about it
Arent we nice
The little fella in the trailer on the back of the bike will be ok
It's just that we worry a lot that he wont be
and because we worry about things like that we take care about it
Arent we nice
Regarding our infrastructure; no not really. But even if for arguments sake we said it was the same you're still left with the issue of attitudes. Cyclists are seen as an inconvenience/nuisance and not surprisingly so given the way they've positioned themselves.
DoubleSix said:
Cyclists are seen as an inconvenience/nuisance and not surprisingly so given the way they've positioned themselves.
What, by having the temerity to do what they're allowed to do? They're only an inconvenience / nuisance to the Mr toads who think roads are theirs, and to those who don't grasp that driving 2ft from the car in front with their mind in neutral is not safe.What I dont understand is when most people see a bloke on a bike jump a red light they froth with anger, when they see a bloke driving a car whilst texting, they shrug their shoulders and barely give it a second thought. Both are dangerous, one is likely to be the victim of an accident, the other the cause, one will come off badly, the other less so. It just puzzles me.
Yeah but it's ok to speed, hang the back out and even scrub race tyres in....
.....Just so long as you don't ride a bicycle. As for the standard of our driving in the UK, it's worse than most places I have visited, and there have been a few. Too impatient, too busy and fk everyone else.
.....Just so long as you don't ride a bicycle. As for the standard of our driving in the UK, it's worse than most places I have visited, and there have been a few. Too impatient, too busy and f
k everyone else. Mave said:
DoubleSix said:
Cyclists are seen as an inconvenience/nuisance and not surprisingly so given the way they've positioned themselves.
What, by having the temerity to do what they're allowed to do? They're only an inconvenience / nuisance to the Mr toads who think roads are theirs, and to those who don't grasp that driving 2ft from the car in front with their mind in neutral is not safe.As long as this sort if language prevails cyclists and motorists will be at loggerheads. Cyclists have a lot to answer for in that regard I'm afraid.
Yeah but it's ok to speed, hang the back out and even scrub race tyres in....
.....Just so long as you don't ride a bicycle. As for the standard of our driving in the UK, it's worse than most places I have visited, and there have been a few. Too impatient, too busy and fk everyone else.
.....Just so long as you don't ride a bicycle. As for the standard of our driving in the UK, it's worse than most places I have visited, and there have been a few. Too impatient, too busy and f
k everyone else. DoubleSix said:
Mave said:
DoubleSix said:
Cyclists are seen as an inconvenience/nuisance and not surprisingly so given the way they've positioned themselves.
What, by having the temerity to do what they're allowed to do? They're only an inconvenience / nuisance to the Mr toads who think roads are theirs, and to those who don't grasp that driving 2ft from the car in front with their mind in neutral is not safe.As long as this sort if language prevails cyclists and motorists will be at loggerheads. Cyclists have a lot to answer for in that regard I'm afraid.
No, you see I'm not whinging about other road users and my right to cycle whilst trying to change the behaviour of the whole damn populous!
I don't give a fk about any of that but if I did I'd consider my position more carefully than most cyclists seem to.
I've modified my approach to this thread to try and get through the density of mind that is so prevalent amongst some of the posters. For my own amusement if nothing else...
Ultimately I don't have a dog in the fight because I think it's fruitless. I use my car on the road and my bike in the woods, suits me fine.
I don't give a f
k about any of that but if I did I'd consider my position more carefully than most cyclists seem to.I've modified my approach to this thread to try and get through the density of mind that is so prevalent amongst some of the posters. For my own amusement if nothing else...
Ultimately I don't have a dog in the fight because I think it's fruitless. I use my car on the road and my bike in the woods, suits me fine.
lostkiwi said:
The other point made is that in other countries such an activity is the norm. In those countries its not unsafe so why is it unsafe in Britain?
i will just leave this here,i believe someone mentioned stockholm/sweden as an example of how safe cycling is elsewhere. Biking 'more dangerous' than driving in Sweden http://www.thelocal.se/20120504/40634 ,from a few years back,things may have changed.lostkiwi said:
No one's disputing that. Its just proof that driving standards here are inferior to those of our continental neighbours as they don't seem to have quite so many problems avoiding cyclists.
you keep saying that , but i do not think i agree.Although the total number of road fatalities in the Netherlands has been steadily decreasing for years, the numbers of cyclists and pedestrians killed on the road remains the same.
News website Nu.nl examined over 45.000 traffic accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians between 2007 and 2012 with data from the Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment.
It found that while road deaths in general have dropped from 800 per year to 650, a drop of nearly 20 per cent, the numbers of cyclist and pedestrian deaths has stayed around 260 per year. 40 per cent of total fatalities.
http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-page...
oyster said:
So in your opinion, why can it not be like Norway or the Netherlands?
Do you think it's better that we have the level of poor driving that you obviously think we do?
And what do you think exists in Britain to make our roads particularly harder than Norwegian/Dutch roads to make safer for cyclists? (Granted we have a bigger population, but that's no excuse).
norwegian accident statistics suggest similar rates for all users as scotland . slightly smaller population in a country approximately 4 times the size would suggest it is not any better cycling there. comparing it to london would make things even worse going on traffic density,so i am not sure of the point you are trying to make.Do you think it's better that we have the level of poor driving that you obviously think we do?
And what do you think exists in Britain to make our roads particularly harder than Norwegian/Dutch roads to make safer for cyclists? (Granted we have a bigger population, but that's no excuse).
http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/pub/pdf...
http://www.road-safety.org.uk/driving/advice-for-d...
wc98 said:
you keep saying that , but i do not think i agree.
Although the total number of road fatalities in the Netherlands has been steadily decreasing for years, the numbers of cyclists and pedestrians killed on the road remains the same.
News website Nu.nl examined over 45.000 traffic accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians between 2007 and 2012 with data from the Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment.
It found that while road deaths in general have dropped from 800 per year to 650, a drop of nearly 20 per cent, the numbers of cyclist and pedestrian deaths has stayed around 260 per year. 40 per cent of total fatalities.
http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-page...
And the last time you cycled in the Netherlands was? Although the total number of road fatalities in the Netherlands has been steadily decreasing for years, the numbers of cyclists and pedestrians killed on the road remains the same.
News website Nu.nl examined over 45.000 traffic accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians between 2007 and 2012 with data from the Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment.
It found that while road deaths in general have dropped from 800 per year to 650, a drop of nearly 20 per cent, the numbers of cyclist and pedestrian deaths has stayed around 260 per year. 40 per cent of total fatalities.
http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-page...
wc98 said:
lostkiwi said:
No one's disputing that. Its just proof that driving standards here are inferior to those of our continental neighbours as they don't seem to have quite so many problems avoiding cyclists.
you keep saying that , but i do not think i agree.Although the total number of road fatalities in the Netherlands has been steadily decreasing for years, the numbers of cyclists and pedestrians killed on the road remains the same.
News website Nu.nl examined over 45.000 traffic accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians between 2007 and 2012 with data from the Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment.
It found that while road deaths in general have dropped from 800 per year to 650, a drop of nearly 20 per cent, the numbers of cyclist and pedestrian deaths has stayed around 260 per year. 40 per cent of total fatalities.
http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-page...
http://drawingrings.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/no-cycl...
Its a comparison of UK deaths per billion miles cycled for UK and Netherlands. UK is 22, Netherlands is 9.
This data is further supported here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S...
The second link is an extremely good study of cycling in both the UK and NL with some additional comparisons to Denmark.
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