RE: Lotus 3-Eleven - official!
Discussion
otolith said:
Impasse said:
otolith said:
It's probably not for you if you've named yourself after a Porsche.
The 2 Eleven and 3 Eleven are named after the Lotus Eleven, the forerunner to the subsequent "E" names. Taking my argument for 'TC is here to stay whether you like it or not" - it has, of course, gotten a lot smarter of recent.
Take ABS - we don't complain that it's there despite a lot of (mostly older) systems being a pain-in-the-ass. I assume we've all driven the cars which kick the pedal when pulling-up and the car hits a small pothole/ridge - or which cut-in repeatedly on that first rainy day after a dry spell - or which make driving on snow FAR harder than it would be without it? Most systems are smarter than that - hell I drive a 98 Vectra for a year-and-a-bit and it's ABS was mostly fine (the 405 is old-school tho, it hates you stopping!!)
The olde-world TC system which simply slapped your wrist and killed-the-power is probably defunct. Cars have a LOT more to go on than just ABS sensors and the sensors are better - it's possible to adjust the car at any point in almost any way through brakes/power and even steering all 4 wheels and you can choose to do so either pro-actively (make the driver feel a hero - GTR-stylee) or at a point AFTER it's gone wrong (slip control) or whatever.
It's not perfect and I admit that it appearing in a Lotus is a deathknell for some of their image - but that image isn't selling enough cars, they have to compete with cars which have a lot more going-on and as they cost the same - they have to offer the same.
Take ABS - we don't complain that it's there despite a lot of (mostly older) systems being a pain-in-the-ass. I assume we've all driven the cars which kick the pedal when pulling-up and the car hits a small pothole/ridge - or which cut-in repeatedly on that first rainy day after a dry spell - or which make driving on snow FAR harder than it would be without it? Most systems are smarter than that - hell I drive a 98 Vectra for a year-and-a-bit and it's ABS was mostly fine (the 405 is old-school tho, it hates you stopping!!)
The olde-world TC system which simply slapped your wrist and killed-the-power is probably defunct. Cars have a LOT more to go on than just ABS sensors and the sensors are better - it's possible to adjust the car at any point in almost any way through brakes/power and even steering all 4 wheels and you can choose to do so either pro-actively (make the driver feel a hero - GTR-stylee) or at a point AFTER it's gone wrong (slip control) or whatever.
It's not perfect and I admit that it appearing in a Lotus is a deathknell for some of their image - but that image isn't selling enough cars, they have to compete with cars which have a lot more going-on and as they cost the same - they have to offer the same.
HorneyMX5 said:
otolith said:
Impasse said:
otolith said:
It's probably not for you if you've named yourself after a Porsche.
The 2 Eleven and 3 Eleven are named after the Lotus Eleven, the forerunner to the subsequent "E" names. HorneyMX5 said:
otolith said:
Impasse said:
otolith said:
It's probably not for you if you've named yourself after a Porsche.
The 2 Eleven and 3 Eleven are named after the Lotus Eleven, the forerunner to the subsequent "E" names. Most puzzling for me is "Escort si-130". Seems a bit specific.
PorscheGT4 said:
every review all seem to state understeer and bad gearbox's/ gear change.
You mean reviews like: Top Gear said:
"The gearshift is short and accurate now"
"Most of all it's about precision and talking to you, the delicious steering letting you know just when it's nibbling at understeer, the seat communicating the onset of oversteer"
"Most of all it's about precision and talking to you, the delicious steering letting you know just when it's nibbling at understeer, the seat communicating the onset of oversteer"
Autocar said:
"The gearshift remains good"
"If you’re on the power, or you’ve turned in while trailing the brakes to settle the nose, the Elise becomes neutral or will oversteer with a breathtaking level of controllability for a short, mid-engined, lightweight sports car. Its handling remains an unbridled joy."
"If you’re on the power, or you’ve turned in while trailing the brakes to settle the nose, the Elise becomes neutral or will oversteer with a breathtaking level of controllability for a short, mid-engined, lightweight sports car. Its handling remains an unbridled joy."
Evo said:
Balance-wise the S Club Racer is resolutely neutral up to and beyond any sane speed you’re likely to carry into a corner on the road.
I think you've been reading reviews whilst trying to justify your choice of car 
LotusOmega375D said:
It's amazing that Lotus launch a new car in one of the very few market segments where Porsche has no presence (track day special) and yet nearly every other other post on here mentions the P word. Can't we just leave them out of this particular discussion?
It may be the case that blinkered fan boys can't help themselves.
stephan_carstens said:
Guess what's wrong with this sentencelotus311 said:
The Lotus 3-Eleven will be hand made by the highly skilled craftsmen and women
saaby93 said:
Guess what's wrong with this sentence
Well "The Lotus 3-Eleven will be hand made by turnip farmers who still manage to produce a better product than Stuttgart" would perhaps be a bit incendiary lotus311 said:
The Lotus 3-Eleven will be hand made by the highly skilled craftsmen and women
SidewaysSi said:
peter450 said:
SidewaysSi said:
peter450 said:
otolith said:
peter450 said:
At least Lotus are giving their cars some proper performance at last, the uprated 400 + hp V6 range of Evora/Exige and this look good (don't like the styling on this much though, but then again did not like the last one much either...)
Now they need to bolt a SC onto the 1.6 and up the power on the 1.8
From what Gales has been saying recently, I think he has realised that although low weight gives you loads of good stuff, the thing it gives you that sells cars is acceleration. Now they need to bolt a SC onto the 1.6 and up the power on the 1.8
Ok so the looks is subjective, I preferred the original S2 style but the rest is not.
It may have got ok reviews but It's a good job those didn't involve the previous car as it would have been egg on face time I suspect. Fact is the new engines needed to add a decent slug of extra power over the last batch if they were ever going to have any hope of being seen as an "improvement" or the very least not a big retrograde step
As for egg on face and "OK reviews", not really sure that is a valid point either:
http://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/elise
There is also a review of the Elise S Cup giving it 5 stars (in fact there I can't really think of any Lotus review which has been anything other than brilliant). Of course I am sure something like What Car? may well bemoan the lack of NVH suppression but I think we can ignore such comments.
Something like the Alfa 4C is a great case of a great design but very poor execution. Lotus is on another level compared to something like that for instance.
That's why I said they need to supercharge the 1.6 and up the output on the 1.8 so they improve upon or at least on balance are no worse than what has gone before.
peter450 said:
Your missing the point, it's not about the quality of the interior, it's about why would you buy a new Elise when it has the same interior and a worse engine than one from 2 or 3 years ago.
That's why I said they need to supercharge the 1.6 and up the output on the 1.8 so they improve upon or at least on balance are no worse than what has gone before.
The 1.6 has a USP which would be lost if they supercharged it - it's not my cup of tea, but I see what it's for and why some people buy it. They'd be better seeing if they can shed some weight from it and massage it into doing even better on the EU fuel economy cycle for green guilt-ridden sports car fanciers. More power for the 1.8 and perhaps another model with a lot more power from the 1.8 would be good though.That's why I said they need to supercharge the 1.6 and up the output on the 1.8 so they improve upon or at least on balance are no worse than what has gone before.
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