RE: Lotus 3-Eleven - official!
Discussion
PorscheGT4 said:
I guess Lotus never can come last now the 4C is out but I wish Lotus could give mags better cars so a basic 2.7 Cayman does not wip it's arse on a track test !
Basic manual Cayman has horrible long ratios in the box and any Evora and many other Lotus cars would whip (note spelling 
) it on track and on the road for that matter.I test drove a Cayman GTS a few weeks ago, I really thought it would be miles ahead of my Evora which is 5 years old, and quite simply, it wasn't. Yes the interior is well made, yes the pdk is amazing, but on my favourite roads it was no quicker, handled no better and had a much worse ride. (and I have the slow version of the Evora)
I think you are being too reliant on test reports. What modern Lotus cars have you driven?
blueg33 said:
Spent the morning at Lotus Silverstone having a door latch mech replaced. Talking to them, they sold 3, 311's yesterday. Not bad considering it has only just hit the market. Apparently no one worried about the price at all.
This is heartwarming. Please can all those suffering from tall poppy syndrome take a step back, pour themselves a glass of whatever it is they normally choose to celebrate (as opposed to a measure of bile), and celebrate the fact that (a) in an increasingly anodyne, white goods world, outfits like Lotus still exist; (b) despite having had, even in the context of the recent tough economic times, a total abortion of a few years, they still have the spirit and the balls to produce something else; and (c) it's been thought of, designed, and will be built in the UK (and yes, by turnip farmers and women, who, from the ones I've met, are utterly passionate about the cars they build).blueg33 said:
PorscheGT4 said:
I guess Lotus never can come last now the 4C is out but I wish Lotus could give mags better cars so a basic 2.7 Cayman does not wip it's arse on a track test !
Basic manual Cayman has horrible long ratios in the box and any Evora and many other Lotus cars would whip (note spelling ) it on track and on the road for that matter.I test drove a Cayman GTS a few weeks ago, I really thought it would be miles ahead of my Evora which is 5 years old, and quite simply, it wasn't. Yes the interior is well made, yes the pdk is amazing, but on my favourite roads it was no quicker, handled no better and had a much worse ride. (and I have the slow version of the Evora)
I think you are being too reliant on test reports. What modern Lotus cars have you driven?
note he got the first post on this thread what a Lotus lurker otolith said:
peter450 said:
Your missing the point, it's not about the quality of the interior, it's about why would you buy a new Elise when it has the same interior and a worse engine than one from 2 or 3 years ago.
That's why I said they need to supercharge the 1.6 and up the output on the 1.8 so they improve upon or at least on balance are no worse than what has gone before.
The 1.6 has a USP which would be lost if they supercharged it - it's not my cup of tea, but I see what it's for and why some people buy it. They'd be better seeing if they can shed some weight from it and massage it into doing even better on the EU fuel economy cycle for green guilt-ridden sports car fanciers. More power for the 1.8 and perhaps another model with a lot more power from the 1.8 would be good though.That's why I said they need to supercharge the 1.6 and up the output on the 1.8 so they improve upon or at least on balance are no worse than what has gone before.
Fact is DB was not at all bothered about the Elise range and was quite happy to forget it existed, that's why the 1.6 went in, to save a few pennies over the 150 hp 1.8 version of the same engine oh and 2/3 mpg and the same in % off the co2 cos that's what sports car buyers want ?
I'm glad the new man is putting some proper work into the range as opposed to To previous managements lame MY12 quality relaunch/revamp which was a bit more leather and some new gear cables.
All I'm saying is they now need to look at the Elise range because both current cars are worse than the ones that rolled out the factory 3,4,5 and counting years ago !!!
Edited by peter450 on Saturday 27th June 21:07
Stelvio1 said:
blueg33 said:
PorscheGT4 said:
I guess Lotus never can come last now the 4C is out but I wish Lotus could give mags better cars so a basic 2.7 Cayman does not wip it's arse on a track test !
Basic manual Cayman has horrible long ratios in the box and any Evora and many other Lotus cars would whip (note spelling ) it on track and on the road for that matter.I test drove a Cayman GTS a few weeks ago, I really thought it would be miles ahead of my Evora which is 5 years old, and quite simply, it wasn't. Yes the interior is well made, yes the pdk is amazing, but on my favourite roads it was no quicker, handled no better and had a much worse ride. (and I have the slow version of the Evora)
I think you are being too reliant on test reports. What modern Lotus cars have you driven?
note he got the first post on this thread what a Lotus lurker Tuna said:
PorscheGT4 said:
every review all seem to state understeer and bad gearbox's/ gear change.
You mean reviews like: Top Gear said:
"The gearshift is short and accurate now"
"Most of all it's about precision and talking to you, the delicious steering letting you know just when it's nibbling at understeer, the seat communicating the onset of oversteer"
"Most of all it's about precision and talking to you, the delicious steering letting you know just when it's nibbling at understeer, the seat communicating the onset of oversteer"
Autocar said:
"The gearshift remains good"
"If you’re on the power, or you’ve turned in while trailing the brakes to settle the nose, the Elise becomes neutral or will oversteer with a breathtaking level of controllability for a short, mid-engined, lightweight sports car. Its handling remains an unbridled joy."
"If you’re on the power, or you’ve turned in while trailing the brakes to settle the nose, the Elise becomes neutral or will oversteer with a breathtaking level of controllability for a short, mid-engined, lightweight sports car. Its handling remains an unbridled joy."
Evo said:
Balance-wise the S Club Racer is resolutely neutral up to and beyond any sane speed you’re likely to carry into a corner on the road.
I think you've been reading reviews whilst trying to justify your choice of car But the elise, and pretty much every lotus since the s1 elise has got mad reviews. Evo adore them, I think Lotus had the evora, elise, exige, 340R and 211 in their 100 greatest drivers cars list. Plus all the classics, elan etc. Autocars have always been madly positive, I cant vouch for TopGear mag, don't read that crap. Harris, Bovingdon and Meaden did a video for drivers republic a vid serious they did a while a go, if I remember the 2 11 did really well against the r500 and atom, despite them saying how it was the heaviest with abs and tc.
So really don't know where you are getting the idea that the mags don't rate lotus.
I don't doubt the 3 11 will be good, if the 'race' version is race series eligible then 'value' wise it will be extremely good compared to the other cars in its class (Im guessing GT3 given its got the top end now, and is far too quick to compete with gt4 cars with the same power but with 450kg more weight - there are around 300-400k). Its a different approach than with the other track toys, double the power yet double the weight (compared with 500kg atoms, mono, caterhams etc), a far more special engine rather than forced induction 4 pots, and some more serious aero. Would like to see some 0-200kph stats vs mono.
blueg33 said:
Spent the morning at Lotus Silverstone having a door latch mech replaced. Talking to them, they sold 3, 311's yesterday. Not bad considering it has only just hit the market. Apparently no one worried about the price at all.
When I spoke to Aimee yesterday she'd taken 1 deposit already. Glad they're selling but unfortunately I had to take my name off the waiting list as it was just too expensive a toy for mepeter450 said:
It's USP is being the slowest Elise ever, even lotus marketing promoted it on the co2 and mpg angle, as if it was a nice super mini, how the mighty had fallen.....
The usp is that people who are concerned about climate change can have a sports car and still feel smug and holy. You don't give a s
t about that and nor do I, but I've come across people who have bought them for that reason. If it sells, why not offer it?otolith said:
peter450 said:
It's USP is being the slowest Elise ever, even lotus marketing promoted it on the co2 and mpg angle, as if it was a nice super mini, how the mighty had fallen.....
The usp is that people who are concerned about climate change can have a sports car and still feel smug and holy. You don't give a st about that and nor do I, but I've come across people who have bought them for that reason. If it sells, why not offer it?DB was just not bothered about the Elise, the range got very neglected.
When it came to the refresh it was clear his focus was elsewhere so the S2.5 cars ended up with money wasted on a bad restyle. The result was a car that compared very unfavourably with elises of years past.
Just hope the new guy is working on that as the current V6 range of cars are looking much, much better after this round of updates
peter450 said:
It does not sell that's the point, even when it was the only new Elise you could buy sales of he 1.6 were very poor.
It's possible that the 1.6 is only there for EU emissions targets. That's the same logic behind the rebadged iQ that Aston put out there. They don't have to sell, just bring the emissions down across the range of cars the manufacturer produces.Regardless, why are you fretting about this? Gales has, in the short period he has been in control, launched two 'new' cars that signal a clear new direction for Lotus. He's said on more than one occasion that there's more to come. He's not succumbed to Bahar's marketing nonsense and announced anything impossible. I'd be prepared to forgive him for not getting round to the Elise just yet. When he does, it might be a question of doing something a bit more radical than shuffling round engines and restyling the dash. In that respect, I recall that even Bahar was saying that the Elise would not be fully redesigned until 2018+.
The way the EU fleet average emissions work, you do actually have to sell some units to make it count.
Lotus have recently had their cars in bits on trestle tables while everyone looked for ways of losing unnecessary weight and cost - it would be great if they can make significant mass savings on the Elise. They cut a chunk out of the Evora 400 even with additional necessary mass added in some areas.
Lotus have recently had their cars in bits on trestle tables while everyone looked for ways of losing unnecessary weight and cost - it would be great if they can make significant mass savings on the Elise. They cut a chunk out of the Evora 400 even with additional necessary mass added in some areas.
Tuna said:
peter450 said:
It does not sell that's the point, even when it was the only new Elise you could buy sales of he 1.6 were very poor.
It's possible that the 1.6 is only there for EU emissions targets. That's the same logic behind the rebadged iQ that Aston put out there. They don't have to sell, just bring the emissions down across the range of cars the manufacturer produces.Regardless, why are you fretting about this? Gales has, in the short period he has been in control, launched two 'new' cars that signal a clear new direction for Lotus. He's said on more than one occasion that there's more to come. He's not succumbed to Bahar's marketing nonsense and announced anything impossible. I'd be prepared to forgive him for not getting round to the Elise just yet. When he does, it might be a question of doing something a bit more radical than shuffling round engines and restyling the dash. In that respect, I recall that even Bahar was saying that the Elise would not be fully redesigned until 2018+.
The Pits said:
£82k isn't unreasonable at all - for the performance on offer.
There will be some people paying more for Cayman GT4s than that.
A 991 GT3 would need 700bhp to match the power:weight and this is £50k less than a GT3RS.
BAC Mono is well over £100k and considerably slower.
Same goes for an Ariel Atom that could match it.
Having driven a 211 it's not just the speed, it's the poise, delicacy, accuracy and feedback that makes it special to drive. A 300kg weight reduction compared to the Exige V6 this should ensure that the 311 offers more of the same.
Lotus have pulled all the stops out for this car. Great to see them getting their mojo back.
They are going to need more than mojo when they design and build cars like the 311...There will be some people paying more for Cayman GT4s than that.
A 991 GT3 would need 700bhp to match the power:weight and this is £50k less than a GT3RS.
BAC Mono is well over £100k and considerably slower.
Same goes for an Ariel Atom that could match it.
Having driven a 211 it's not just the speed, it's the poise, delicacy, accuracy and feedback that makes it special to drive. A 300kg weight reduction compared to the Exige V6 this should ensure that the 311 offers more of the same.
Lotus have pulled all the stops out for this car. Great to see them getting their mojo back.
Edited by The Pits on Friday 26th June 12:05
The car is under tire and claimed aerodynamic downforce of up to 215 kg at 150 mph (240 km/h) – Race version, does not help in the corners unless you can maintain that speed...
The use and design of the supercharger setup puts too much weight up high screwing up the CG.
Seriously Lotus design something for performance rather than cutting holes in the deck lid in order to fit the body work..
How the hell do you work on the engine through that deck lid ?
Lotus this is how ya do it..
1,700 lbs wet and 680whp from 1.8 ltr. 245x17 fronts 335x18 rears....
Just sayin...
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