HPI checked a car I've just given a deposit for...

[Sawyer815]

I'll be driving there in a few minutes. Absolutely, I intend to be polite but firm. I neither want to call him a crook and threaten him (because as far as law is concerned for the deposit, it's dodgy), neither want him to tell me sweet lies and convince me to buy his car.

I have just remembered I have a juridical protection included in my (quite expensive) international health insurance. If he doesn't want to refund the deposit, I'll ring them, along with my bank.

Aaaah it's so sunny, I should be lying in the sun instead of driving 2 hours to most probably not even get my money back.

As for the 500SL... 23 yo, foreigner, european license. Probably way too expensive to insure anyway! :P

The more it goes, the more I think I will end up buying a Fiat Punto for a thousand quid and spend the rest on parties!

[Butter Face]

Deposits are a funny old thing really... He would need to prove a loss to keep your £500 which is near on impossible to do.

I would be polite but firm, say that you gave a deposit in good faith but you feel there are too many discrepancies with the HPI report to allow you to carry on and be happy with the car.

The last guy that asked me for a deposit back got it with no issues, he said for me to keep £20 for my troubles and get a drink. Certainly softened the blow

[havingabarth]

Sawyer815 said:

How is debit card not protection? I have a receipt at least... don't I ?

You do have protection through the Chargeback scheme:

http://www.choose.net/money/guide/features/chargeb...

It's not guaranteed in law like for credit cards but more something done by Visa/MC/banks to improve consumer confidence in debit cards. As such it's up to your card issuing bank to decide but it sounds like you have a pretty clear case and evidence.

Usually the bank want you to try and obtain a refund directly first, then will open a claim if the vendor refuses and a certain amount of time has passed. Will take longer overall but all the bank need to do is reverse the transaction and you've got it all back. Call your bank now and ask.

You could also mention knowing about chargeback for leverage when demanding a refund. This worked for me with a scammy online shop once, though you'll have to decide yourself whether this is advisable in your case.

[justanother5tar]

If you're now considering a £1k car, and spending the rest on parties, why not get a MK1/2 MX5?

Plenty of people on here know about them to give advice...

[gizlaroc]

Sorry, I missed the bit about the missing V5.

The problem these days is 'log book loans' as they are not registered anywhere, so an HPI won't show it.

However, most log book loan companies won't lend on a car with outstanding finance, so if it is showing as finance outstanding then then this can actually be a positive.

Who is the finance with?? Do you know?

A finance house is not going to be in on any scam. I personally prefer to buy a car with finance outstanding on it, but I always pay the finance house direct and then settle up with the seller on the balance, me giving him the difference or him paying me back if there is more finance owing than the price you have agreed to pay for the car.

I would find out who holds the interest in the car, ie which finance company and take it from there.

Loads of occasions MOT centres can input the wrong mileage which throws up wobblies on an HPI. Mercedes did it on my E350 estate, put the KM in by mistake, showed 38k km instead of 24k miles. Was a pain when selling it as it looked clocked, luckily as all their records are digital it was sorted and the hpi companies adjusted the mileage.


Buying any car now the greatest risk is Log Book Loans, even some of the finance houses are getting their fingers burnt with this one, and even if you got a letter from the finance house saying they no longer have an interest there is nothing to stop the seller taking out a loan using the V5 the day you collect the car. Buying a car in the UK is now a complete gamble, and I guess you have to weigh up wether you trust the seller or not, in this case it looks like you don't, so walk away otherwise you may always be worrying about the car.


I would ask for a refund, say the deposit was based on the car being hpi clear, mileage correct and obviously a V5 document present (which because of log book loans is now more important than ever).
Say the car is not hpi clear, the mileage is showing as not being correct and the V5 is missing, so understandably you would like your deposit back.

[gizlaroc]

Should just add, most big dealers will have their cars on stocking plans, so it will show as financed.
But if he has said it is simply outstanding finance from the previous owner you know this is not the case.

[Zad]

I get the feeling that someone wrote down Eighty, when someone said Eighteen. You are right to be cautious though, I can imagine me in the same situation.

[Sawyer815]

I am back. At least this was a nice sunny drive.

So, as expected, I haven't got my money back. I arrived to the man's place, ringed the bell. The son answered, I explained to him why I was there, he said I should see this with his father as he's the one in charge, so he called him on the phone.

I asked very politely for the refund, and the father went all "I won't refund anything, don't come to my house, get out of my property". Er... it's not like his professional address is his house and I came in well within opening hours (with another man test driving another car while I was there).
The signal got genuinely bad and I lost him. I discussed a bit with the son while he was trying to call him back. Explained him my problem, politely, patiently, how I understand taking the car off the market and on again would have a cost and therefore how I'd understand being refunded only £450 for example. He admitted "understanding where I'm coming from". I said I could use chargeback but I hoped we could do this in a friendly way first.
The son finally managed to call back the dad, discussed with him about a minute or so in private, came back to me and told me I'd have to send a letter to "officially" request for my money back, stating the reasons why I want it. Almost explicitly told me I'd get my money back then.

So, on Monday, I'll send it (a polite one once again, I feel it would work better), obviously with an option to have a proof of delivery (it exists, right?). Then wait for it a few days, and I'll try to use chargeback if he refuses/ignores the request.

Edited by Sawyer815 on Saturday 27th June 21:17

[Sawyer815]

Zad said:

I get the feeling that someone wrote down Eighty, when someone said Eighteen. You are right to be cautious though, I can imagine me in the same situation.

It would make sense, but it doesn't quite add up. I'm pretty sure he told me the car has been serviced at 2Xk miles in late 2013 (october or something). The HPI check puts the 80k figure in november 2013.

[Deerfoot]

Sawyer815 said:

I asked very politely for the refund, and the father went all "I won't refund anything, don't come to my house, get out of my property".

You have more patience than me.

At this point I'd have politely informed him of my intent to instigate charge-back proceedings.

The guy sounds like a massive wrister.

[VolvoT5]

I think they might have a legitimate case for keeping some of your deposit to cover the cost of re-adveriting the car and and lost value due to the additional owner on the logbook. I don't know if the logbook situation will affect their resale - can they resell it now in the knowledge one logbook application is already in the post?

They may also argue for any costs to be deducted if they have done any preparation work like an MOT, valet, etc.

[carreauchompeur]

Definitely a 'walk away' moment in terms of the purchase. Well done. If it walks like a duck etc,..

[Deerfoot]

VolvoT5 said:

I think they might have a legitimate case for keeping some of your deposit to cover the cost of re-adveriting the car and and lost value due to the additional owner on the logbook. I don't know if the logbook situation will affect their resale - can they resell it now in the knowledge one logbook application is already in the post?

They may also argue for any costs to be deducted if they have done any preparation work like an MOT, valet, etc.

I thought they hadn't sent the document off, hence there is no additional owner on the (missing) V5?

[Sawyer815]

Deerfoot said:

VolvoT5 said:

I think they might have a legitimate case for keeping some of your deposit to cover the cost of re-adveriting the car and and lost value due to the additional owner on the logbook. I don't know if the logbook situation will affect their resale - can they resell it now in the knowledge one logbook application is already in the post?

They may also argue for any costs to be deducted if they have done any preparation work like an MOT, valet, etc.

I thought they hadn't sent the document off, hence there is no additional owner on the (missing) V5?

Exactly. I said it wrong in an earlier post, the V62 with my name HAS NOT been sent. But yes, I understand he should be entitled to keep some of the deposit for re-advertising the car. Surely not £500, though...

And yes, I'm quite patient, but it's also because chargeback is apparently supposed to be only used once every agreement between client and seller has failed, as a last-resort solution. Considering the seller told me to send him a formal request by letter, I'll try this first...

[VolvoT5]

Deerfoot said:

I thought they hadn't sent the document off, hence there is no additional owner on the (missing) V5?

what they have/haven't done may not correlate to what they try to charge OP for though.......

[Sawyer815]

VolvoT5 said:

what they have/haven't done may not correlate to what they try to charge OP for though.......

Then again, it should be pretty easy to prove that DVLA never received a V62. And, I'm not sure it's worth anything, but I have recorded the conversation where he states he would only send the V62 once I'd pay for the car.

[VolvoT5]

Sawyer815 said:

Exactly. I said it wrong in an earlier post, the V62 with my name HAS NOT been sent. But yes, I understand he should be entitled to keep some of the deposit for re-advertising the car. Surely not £500, though...

And yes, I'm quite patient, but it's also because chargeback is apparently supposed to be only used once every agreement between client and seller has failed, as a last-resort solution. Considering the seller told me to send him a formal request by letter, I'll try this first...

I hope they play fair but the signs aren't great are they. Don't get me wrong, I think you are right to ask for your money back..... but if they go the formal/legal route they could drag it out for ages.

I'm not sure if a charge back on a debit card has the same legal rights attached as a credit card claim. I'm sure with debit charge back there is quite a lot of discretion at the bank's end. Even making a credit card (section 75, so a legal right) claim is long and tedious.... it requires evidence the goods haven't been received or are not as described and the company wont refund or resolve the issue. They can then take months to investigate.

[Sawyer815]

VolvoT5 said:

I hope they play fair but the signs aren't great are they. Don't get me wrong, I think you are right to ask for your money back..... but if they go the formal/legal route they could drag it out for ages.

I'm not sure if a charge back on a debit card has the same legal rights attached as a credit card claim. I'm sure with debit charge back there is quite a lot of discretion at the bank's end. Even making a credit card (section 75, so a legal right) claim is long and tedious.... it requires evidence the goods haven't been received or are not as described and the company wont refund or resolve the issue. They can then take months to investigate.

Yeah, I get that. I am prepared to potentially never see my money again. But I will try all my options before giving up.

[loskie]

send your letter SPECIAL DELIVERY (guaranteed and trackable). Keep a copy and if you have to later pursue it through small claims you will have some evidence.
You may have the argument as "goods not as described" depending on the ad.

[UK345]

The guy is probably being a bit funny with you because you have shown him that you don't trust him. He will be annoyed that he has lost the sale and will look at you as a time waster. He will want to get you back and muck you around a bit. Keep in contact with him throughout and see how it goes. Always do a hpi check before buying the car