HPI checked a car I've just given a deposit for...
Discussion
Butter Face said:
Deposits are a funny old thing really... He would need to prove a loss to keep your £500 which is near on impossible to do.
I would be polite but firm, say that you gave a deposit in good faith but you feel there are too many discrepancies with the HPI report to allow you to carry on and be happy with the car.
The last guy that asked me for a deposit back got it with no issues, he said for me to keep £20 for my troubles and get a drink. Certainly softened the blow
No. The seller's loss is quite evident - he was in a contract to sell a car and benefit from the proceeds. I would be polite but firm, say that you gave a deposit in good faith but you feel there are too many discrepancies with the HPI report to allow you to carry on and be happy with the car.
The last guy that asked me for a deposit back got it with no issues, he said for me to keep £20 for my troubles and get a drink. Certainly softened the blow
Like I said earlier, deposits are meaningful and not things to be offered lightly.
loskie said:
send your letter SPECIAL DELIVERY (guaranteed and trackable). Keep a copy and if you have to later pursue it through small claims you will have some evidence.
You may have the argument as "goods not as described" depending on the ad.
Send it recorded; costs about £1.75 instead of £6 odd for 'special' delivery and you can still check online to see it has been signed for. You may have the argument as "goods not as described" depending on the ad.
swisstoni said:
Butter Face said:
Deposits are a funny old thing really... He would need to prove a loss to keep your £500 which is near on impossible to do.
I would be polite but firm, say that you gave a deposit in good faith but you feel there are too many discrepancies with the HPI report to allow you to carry on and be happy with the car.
The last guy that asked me for a deposit back got it with no issues, he said for me to keep £20 for my troubles and get a drink. Certainly softened the blow
No. The seller's loss is quite evident - he was in a contract to sell a car and benefit from the proceeds. I would be polite but firm, say that you gave a deposit in good faith but you feel there are too many discrepancies with the HPI report to allow you to carry on and be happy with the car.
The last guy that asked me for a deposit back got it with no issues, he said for me to keep £20 for my troubles and get a drink. Certainly softened the blow
Like I said earlier, deposits are meaningful and not things to be offered lightly.
You can keep a deposit if you've suffered a loss, and tbh for a main dealer it is kind of hard to prove a loss so we just hand them back and move on.
Sawyer815 said:
He admitted "understanding where I'm coming from". I said I could use chargeback but I hoped we could do this in a friendly way first.
Finally managed to call back the dad, discussed with him about a minute or so in private, came back to me and told me I'd have to send a letter to "officially" request for my money back, stating the reasons why I want it. Almost explicitly told me I'd get my money back then.
So, on Monday, I'll send it (a polite one once again, I feel it would work better), obviously with an option to have a proof of delivery (it exists, right?). Then wait for it a few days, and I'll try to use chargeback if he refuses/ignores the request.
Well that sounds reasonably positive. I'd guess actually getting the money might be more difficult. Finally managed to call back the dad, discussed with him about a minute or so in private, came back to me and told me I'd have to send a letter to "officially" request for my money back, stating the reasons why I want it. Almost explicitly told me I'd get my money back then.
So, on Monday, I'll send it (a polite one once again, I feel it would work better), obviously with an option to have a proof of delivery (it exists, right?). Then wait for it a few days, and I'll try to use chargeback if he refuses/ignores the request.
You'll need to go to a post office to send the letter with proof of delivery.
What a bad experience
0a said:
Well that sounds reasonably positive. I'd guess actually getting the money might be more difficult.
You'll need to go to a post office to send the letter with proof of delivery.
What a bad experience
It's the son who seemed understanding and who kinda said that with the letter I'd have my money back. Not certain the father fully agrees with that. You'll need to go to a post office to send the letter with proof of delivery.
What a bad experience
As for VolvoT5, thanks, I'll take a look at that. But I'd want to take the "safest route" here, make sure whatever proof of delivery I have can be used to prove anything.
swisstoni said:
No. The seller's loss is quite evident - he was in a contract to sell a car and benefit from the proceeds.
Failing to make a profit today isn't quite the same as making a loss though is it?What loss has the vendor suffered at this point?
I know we're only getting one side of the story but it appears to be a pretty poor experience for the OP so far...
Sawyer815 said:
I am back. At least this was a nice sunny drive.
So, as expected, I haven't got my money back. I arrived to the man's place, ringed the bell. The son answered, I explained to him why I was there, he said I should see this with his father as he's the one in charge, so he called him on the phone.
I asked very politely for the refund, and the father went all "I won't refund anything, don't come to my house, get out of my property". Er... it's not like his professional address is his house and I came in well within opening hours (with another man test driving another car while I was there).
The signal got genuinely bad and I lost him. I discussed a bit with the son while he was trying to call him back. Explained him my problem, politely, patiently, how I understand taking the car off the market and on again would have a cost and therefore how I'd understand being refunded only £450 for example. He admitted "understanding where I'm coming from". I said I could use chargeback but I hoped we could do this in a friendly way first.
The son finally managed to call back the dad, discussed with him about a minute or so in private, came back to me and told me I'd have to send a letter to "officially" request for my money back, stating the reasons why I want it. Almost explicitly told me I'd get my money back then.
So, on Monday, I'll send it (a polite one once again, I feel it would work better), obviously with an option to have a proof of delivery (it exists, right?). Then wait for it a few days, and I'll try to use chargeback if he refuses/ignores the request.
Oh come on! You don't seriously believe that? If you do then you're far more naive than I had you down for. The bottom line is if he's refused to give your monkey back in person after travelling 2 hours to get it and you're stood on his doorstep 2 inches from his face then you've got absolutely zero chance of getting it back from sending him nice letters saying "please Mr. Seller, may I have my money back?". Your letters will be instantly filed in the round filing cabinet.So, as expected, I haven't got my money back. I arrived to the man's place, ringed the bell. The son answered, I explained to him why I was there, he said I should see this with his father as he's the one in charge, so he called him on the phone.
I asked very politely for the refund, and the father went all "I won't refund anything, don't come to my house, get out of my property". Er... it's not like his professional address is his house and I came in well within opening hours (with another man test driving another car while I was there).
The signal got genuinely bad and I lost him. I discussed a bit with the son while he was trying to call him back. Explained him my problem, politely, patiently, how I understand taking the car off the market and on again would have a cost and therefore how I'd understand being refunded only £450 for example. He admitted "understanding where I'm coming from". I said I could use chargeback but I hoped we could do this in a friendly way first.
The son finally managed to call back the dad, discussed with him about a minute or so in private, came back to me and told me I'd have to send a letter to "officially" request for my money back, stating the reasons why I want it. Almost explicitly told me I'd get my money back then.
So, on Monday, I'll send it (a polite one once again, I feel it would work better), obviously with an option to have a proof of delivery (it exists, right?). Then wait for it a few days, and I'll try to use chargeback if he refuses/ignores the request.
Edited by Sawyer815 on Saturday 27th June 21:17
As for claiming it back via your bank bearing in mind it was a BACS payment on a debit card, well good luck with that one. It will certainly give the bank staff a good laugh if nothing else.
All that jazz said:
Oh come on! You don't seriously believe that? If you do then you're far more naive than I had you down for. The bottom line is if he's refused to give your monkey back in person after travelling 2 hours to get it and you're stood on his doorstep 2 inches from his face then you've got absolutely zero chance of getting it back from sending him nice letters saying "please Mr. Seller, may I have my money back?". Your letters will be instantly filed in the round filing cabinet.
As for claiming it back via your bank bearing in mind it was a BACS payment on a debit card, well good luck with that one. It will certainly give the bank staff a good laugh if nothing else.
No, I don't seriously believe it, I'd be genuinely surprised to get my money back that way, but I'm still going to try. The guy was not here, I talked to his son who couldn't do it. What was I supposed to do, then? Force the entrance, search the house for some cash? Sit on the front porch (of someone else's property) until the guy comes back, which could have been hours later and definitely wouldn't have put him in more a mood for a refund? The letter is only so that I can say in all good faith "I've tried everything" when I try to apply Chargeback or another juridical thing afterwards. I'll have proof he received it and denied it.As for claiming it back via your bank bearing in mind it was a BACS payment on a debit card, well good luck with that one. It will certainly give the bank staff a good laugh if nothing else.
If the bank laugh, they laugh, so be it. As I said, it's £500, not £50.000. It's a lot of money, but I can live without. I just want to try as much stuff as I can to get it back.
as above send the letter by Special Delivery (it's worth £7) and give him 7 days - meanwhile go to Trading standards; good luck !
If all else fails there is the small claims court; basically he's arrogant and thinks you'll fold on this so make sure you keep a cool head and stay focused.
All the best
If all else fails there is the small claims court; basically he's arrogant and thinks you'll fold on this so make sure you keep a cool head and stay focused.
All the best
Sawyer815 said:
All that jazz said:
Oh come on! You don't seriously believe that? If you do then you're far more naive than I had you down for. The bottom line is if he's refused to give your monkey back in person after travelling 2 hours to get it and you're stood on his doorstep 2 inches from his face then you've got absolutely zero chance of getting it back from sending him nice letters saying "please Mr. Seller, may I have my money back?". Your letters will be instantly filed in the round filing cabinet.
As for claiming it back via your bank bearing in mind it was a BACS payment on a debit card, well good luck with that one. It will certainly give the bank staff a good laugh if nothing else.
No, I don't seriously believe it, I'd be genuinely surprised to get my money back that way, but I'm still going to try. The guy was not here, I talked to his son who couldn't do it. What was I supposed to do, then? Force the entrance, search the house for some cash? Sit on the front porch (of someone else's property) until the guy comes back, which could have been hours later and definitely wouldn't have put him in more a mood for a refund? The letter is only so that I can say in all good faith "I've tried everything" when I try to apply Chargeback or another juridical thing afterwards. I'll have proof he received it and denied it.As for claiming it back via your bank bearing in mind it was a BACS payment on a debit card, well good luck with that one. It will certainly give the bank staff a good laugh if nothing else.
If the bank laugh, they laugh, so be it. As I said, it's £500, not £50.000. It's a lot of money, but I can live without. I just want to try as much stuff as I can to get it back.
The charge-back won't even go any further that your initial call to your bank for the simple reason that it will be your word against his and in the absence of any signed written contracts agreeing the terms and conditions of the deposit you made to him there is absolutely no way to prove who is telling the truth. The same thing will happen if you take him to court as well. You will say x, he will say y, no way to prove it one way or the other. The only thing you will achieve is wasting even more of your time and money.
Imho you would've been better focusing your attention on the story behind the allegedly missing V5 and putting the question to him/them how they expected you to pay the balance and drive it away with a missing V5 and thus no tax. I have a feeling that the V5 might have suddenly been "found" when they realise you can't do anything with the car until they can produce it. I would put all this is writing to him ("letter before action") giving him 14 days to produce the V5 and proof the finance has been paid off or the deal is off and threaten legal action to recover your deposit. Realistically I very much doubt you'd be able to recover the deposit via the legal system but if you did decide to go down that route you'd have to give him the opportunity to 'right' everything before any court would even look at the case. If you're not prepared to do this then just write off your £500 now and move on as you've no chance of seeing it again just from sending him letters asking for it back.
All that jazz said:
What did you really expect to happen when you went trotting off on a 4 hour round-trip? You didn't think this one through too well. Not only are you down a monkey but you've also added another £40 or so to it in wasted fuel and time. He was never going to hand it back to you and I don't get how you came to the conclusion that he would.
The charge-back won't even go any further that your initial call to your bank for the simple reason that it will be your word against his and in the absence of any signed written contracts agreeing the terms and conditions of the deposit you made to him there is absolutely no way to prove who is telling the truth. The same thing will happen if you take him to court as well. You will say x, he will say y, no way to prove it one way or the other. The only thing you will achieve is wasting even more of your time and money.
Imho you would've been better focusing your attention on the story behind the allegedly missing V5 and putting the question to him/them how they expected you to pay the balance and drive it away with a missing V5 and thus no tax. I have a feeling that the V5 might have suddenly been "found" when they realise you can't do anything with the car until they can produce it. I would put all this is writing to him ("letter before action") giving him 14 days to produce the V5 and proof the finance has been paid off or the deal is off and threaten legal action to recover your deposit. Realistically I very much doubt you'd be able to recover the deposit via the legal system but if you did decide to go down that route you'd have to give him the opportunity to 'right' everything before any court would even look at the case. If you're not prepared to do this then just write off your £500 now and move on as you've no chance of seeing it again just from sending him letters asking for it back.
When I said 2 hours, I meant round-trip, and I actually overestimated that, took me 1h15 in total. The charge-back won't even go any further that your initial call to your bank for the simple reason that it will be your word against his and in the absence of any signed written contracts agreeing the terms and conditions of the deposit you made to him there is absolutely no way to prove who is telling the truth. The same thing will happen if you take him to court as well. You will say x, he will say y, no way to prove it one way or the other. The only thing you will achieve is wasting even more of your time and money.
Imho you would've been better focusing your attention on the story behind the allegedly missing V5 and putting the question to him/them how they expected you to pay the balance and drive it away with a missing V5 and thus no tax. I have a feeling that the V5 might have suddenly been "found" when they realise you can't do anything with the car until they can produce it. I would put all this is writing to him ("letter before action") giving him 14 days to produce the V5 and proof the finance has been paid off or the deal is off and threaten legal action to recover your deposit. Realistically I very much doubt you'd be able to recover the deposit via the legal system but if you did decide to go down that route you'd have to give him the opportunity to 'right' everything before any court would even look at the case. If you're not prepared to do this then just write off your £500 now and move on as you've no chance of seeing it again just from sending him letters asking for it back.
I went there directly because I knew on the phone I would've had even less chances to convince him. Less than zero is not very much, but still. I'm not a hippie, but considering the guy was all claiming about how he's got a hundred properties in the country and several businesses and he makes hundred thousands and what not, I thought he might understand my problem and refund to me. I seem to have been wrong.
I signed a deposit slip for the car and I have the payment receipt, so I have proof that I left hin the £500. Nowhere on the slip does it say the car was still under finance. The guy was trying to sell a car that was, according to HPI and the credit company, not belonging to him at that point. That's my line of defense. I have the Google cache of the original ad which did not mention anything about the finance or the absence of V5c. I have the dated HPI report. That's not really my word against his, is it?
I can't push for the V5 because, as I explained, not being fully aware of how everything works yet, I had acknowledged its absence.
The deposit binds the contract, it says all the stuff like "I am entering into the contract to purchase the vehicle", "payment not refundable if I withdraw", "I will be personally liable for any other loss incurred by my withdrawing from the contract" (yeah, this bit sucks, might be cherry on the cake and give you a good laugh, but as someone said, hard to prove such a cost anyway). By a contract is void if important information has been withheld, this I'm pretty sure of. The car not officially belonging to him is pretty important information I'd think. And this I can prove.
Its the sons company but he father has all the authority would suggest to me that the father is possibly a bankrupt or banned from being a company director. Good luck with trying to get money back from someone like that, you may not be the only one with problems, the son could find himself in a sticky situation one of these days.
All that jazz said:
OK. You clearly have all the answers already so I wish you the best of luck! 
Oh, please don't take it that way. I'm not trying to play smart here, this story is clearly showing I'm not quite. There was no sarcasm in my reply, I was geniunely asking if my situation was really "my word against his".And well, yeah, the son might end up in trouble as well. When I called the credit company, and they told me the car still belonged to them, they asked me for the name and phone number of the seller. Obviously I gave the son's name : the company belongs to him.
imagineifyeswill said:
Its the sons company but he father has all the authority would suggest to me that the father is possibly a bankrupt or banned from being a company director. Good luck with trying to get money back from someone like that, you may not be the only one with problems, the son could find himself in a sticky situation one of these days.
+1. None of it seems quite right to me.
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