What car to make money on. One year, max £50k
Discussion
rockandrollmark said:
I don't quite understand the fascination with M3 CSLs, which have popped up on here quite a few times. I've always just thought of it as an M3 with a cardboard boot and tyres you can't use in this country. ).
It is rather special, but it seems everyone now knows they are special and values have moved up accordingly in the last year or so. So to make money, you need to find something that is under the radar. I'd keep the money in the bank awaiting the property deal.Most of the suggestions on this thread are quite modern. So you wont see much increase anytime soon.
Have a look at some auction sold prices over on bonhams.com you will see that classics are where it is all happening.
You can do very well with a £50k budget and some classic machinery - 70s/80s stuff mainly right now - but only the desirable models - increases are in tens of percent over a much shorter time frame.
Problem is everyone is looking for these, so you need to move very very quickly to get hold of something before a dealer does.
Have a look at some auction sold prices over on bonhams.com you will see that classics are where it is all happening.
You can do very well with a £50k budget and some classic machinery - 70s/80s stuff mainly right now - but only the desirable models - increases are in tens of percent over a much shorter time frame.
Problem is everyone is looking for these, so you need to move very very quickly to get hold of something before a dealer does.
rockandrollmark said:
I don't quite understand the fascination with M3 CSLs, which have popped up on here quite a few times. I've always just thought of it as an M3 with a cardboard boot and tyres you can't use in this country. Given that the bog standard version is headed straight to council estate / drug dealer territory at the moment why would the CSL version be much different.
Because it's a very different car - there is little to compare it to below £60k. Its also rare, and has now become a bit of a cult classicrockandrollmark said:
Is the 4C out of production yet? that's not a bad shout as I don't think a bad word's been said about those (pimply headlights aside).
I believe it's now in its last orders. The only problem is, the 4C Spider, reputedly a better car, is a series production vehicle for now, so values will remain dormant for a while...I wonder if clean, unmolested, Integra Type Rs will start moving north? Like the Sierra Bosworth before it, the value must have reached rock bottom now those that will be chivvied up have been, which also reduces the number of good, well cared for examples. FD RX7s as well. they're far fewer in number than the usual Evo, Impreza, Supra, Skylines of the era.
Edited by Ali_T on Tuesday 30th June 14:36
Thought of two more
Modern classic - Honda NSX. They are rocketing in value right not and the trend seems set to continue. Very nice to drive too by all accounts and not that expensive to maintain. The post 2002 facelift models seem to be the most sought after.
Proper Classic - Maserati Merak, compared to other classic supercars of that era they are a relative bargain. You can pick a good example up for £50k but examples of it's sister car, the Bora are going for £150k+. Just Google some images to see why there is only one way prices of these are going to go, they look absolutely stunning.
Whoever mentioned the CSL was just an M3 with a cardboard boot is about 15 years out of date with that cliché. They are probably one of the hardest core BMW road cars you can buy, a much better car than an E30 M3 imo and look at where the prices of those are going. Mark my words, in another few years the CSL's will be into 6 figures.
Modern classic - Honda NSX. They are rocketing in value right not and the trend seems set to continue. Very nice to drive too by all accounts and not that expensive to maintain. The post 2002 facelift models seem to be the most sought after.
Proper Classic - Maserati Merak, compared to other classic supercars of that era they are a relative bargain. You can pick a good example up for £50k but examples of it's sister car, the Bora are going for £150k+. Just Google some images to see why there is only one way prices of these are going to go, they look absolutely stunning.
Whoever mentioned the CSL was just an M3 with a cardboard boot is about 15 years out of date with that cliché. They are probably one of the hardest core BMW road cars you can buy, a much better car than an E30 M3 imo and look at where the prices of those are going. Mark my words, in another few years the CSL's will be into 6 figures.
Strawman said:
But in 2008 the financial systems collapsed and in 2009 classic cars appreciated faster than any other asset, more than gold for example. As someone has already said I don't have a crystal ball so can't say for certain that he will make money but doubt he can lose much. I'd spend less than the whole £50k and buy a mint something he likes in the to 30 to 40 year old range, avoiding cars whose manufacturer is no longer around.
That's not true is it
they peaked in 2008 had fallen by 2009, just like the majority assets and commodities
there may well have been a bounce back period where at one point in 2009 where they were one of the best performing investments (i very much doubt it), but that point is, they were recovering.
Classic cars are a purely speculative investment, the idea he can lose much is laughable, the affordable classics tend to be the fastest and the worst hit in a market down turn.
ging84 said:
That's not true is it
they peaked in 2008 had fallen by 2009, just like the majority assets and commodities
there may well have been a bounce back period where at one point in 2009 where they were one of the best performing investments (i very much doubt it),
According to the financial times they were, from memory 2010.they peaked in 2008 had fallen by 2009, just like the majority assets and commodities
there may well have been a bounce back period where at one point in 2009 where they were one of the best performing investments (i very much doubt it),
ging84 said:
but that point is, they were recovering.
Classic cars are a purely speculative investment, the idea he can lose much is laughable, the affordable classics tend to be the fastest and the worst hit in a market down turn.
and according to the graph you've just posted they've kept on appreciating beyond their value in 2008.Classic cars are a purely speculative investment, the idea he can lose much is laughable, the affordable classics tend to be the fastest and the worst hit in a market down turn.
Do you really think today's financial markets are in a worse state than 2008-2009, and your advice then would have been? When markets downturn and shares are a poor investment together with low interest rates money looks for other things to invest in, any dog on the street knows that.
Edited by Strawman on Tuesday 30th June 17:24
Strawman said:
Do you really think today's financial markets are in a worse state than 2008-2009, and your advice then would have been? When markets downturn and shares are a poor investment together with low interest rates money looks for other things to invest in, any dog on the street knows that.
You think they are in a better state than in 2008 ? china's stock markets lost $2.5tn in the last couple of weeks, that's enough to pay of Greece's entire debt 7 times. People or dogs look for things which they can buy low, sell high, classic car prices are high, some say very high, they're not looking like a particularly good investment any more, let alone a safe one.
ging84 said:
You think they are in a better state than in 2008 ? china's stock markets lost $2.5tn in the last couple of weeks, that's enough to pay of Greece's entire debt 7 times.
People or dogs look for things which they can buy low, sell high, classic car prices are high, some say very high, they're not looking like a particularly good investment any more, let alone a safe one.
So you are predicted global economic meltdown in the next few months, major banks like Lehman Bros closing etc. Well you heard it here first. I'll bump this thread back up in six months time.People or dogs look for things which they can buy low, sell high, classic car prices are high, some say very high, they're not looking like a particularly good investment any more, let alone a safe one.
Strawman said:
So you are predicted global economic meltdown in the next few months, major banks like Lehman Bros closing etc. Well you heard it here first. I'll bump this thread back up in six months time.
No i am not predicting a banking collapse, we've already had that oneWhat i am predicting is that in a years time classic cars are unlikely to have gained anything, and there is a real risk that they will have fallen
feel free to bump this thread in a year
ging84 said:
No i am not predicting a banking collapse, we've already had that one
What i am predicting is that in a years time classic cars are unlikely to have gained anything, and there is a real risk that they will have fallen
feel free to bump this thread in a year
I agree, more headwinds ahead rather than the wind behind you - interest rates, saturated markets, slowing growth, CHINA, europeWhat i am predicting is that in a years time classic cars are unlikely to have gained anything, and there is a real risk that they will have fallen
feel free to bump this thread in a year
I too think the best years are behind us. GT3 RS 4.0s rose very quickly but seemed to have stopped appreciating. Likewise some older 911s (Scs etc) seem to be rising more slowly.
Of course you need to think about running costs as well. I was first in line for Nick Trott's (EVO Editor)'s 911SC a few years ago (bought an Elise in the end as it was infinitely better). I could have had the 911 for £11k but was told by the dealer it would need engine work done on it. Reading his running reports, he has had to spend plenty thus far (including a single bill for over £8k alone).
Given the car had nearly 170k miles at the time, it's probably worth late 20s as a trade now. Not sure he has really made much at all if he were to sell today.
Likewise CSLs have no doubt risen a few grand in the past couple of years. But enough to offset running costs (and fix any subframe issues)? Probably not.
Some cars have risen and no doubt a few more will but I think the far eastern demand is cooling which will affect things.
Buy something you want to drive and enjoy and if you make something then that's a bonus. Going into it expecting to make cash and you will probably be disappointed.
Of course you need to think about running costs as well. I was first in line for Nick Trott's (EVO Editor)'s 911SC a few years ago (bought an Elise in the end as it was infinitely better). I could have had the 911 for £11k but was told by the dealer it would need engine work done on it. Reading his running reports, he has had to spend plenty thus far (including a single bill for over £8k alone).
Given the car had nearly 170k miles at the time, it's probably worth late 20s as a trade now. Not sure he has really made much at all if he were to sell today.
Likewise CSLs have no doubt risen a few grand in the past couple of years. But enough to offset running costs (and fix any subframe issues)? Probably not.
Some cars have risen and no doubt a few more will but I think the far eastern demand is cooling which will affect things.
Buy something you want to drive and enjoy and if you make something then that's a bonus. Going into it expecting to make cash and you will probably be disappointed.
If you're going to invest in a classic car, you'd best be able to explain why they've been going up and why you think they're going to keep going up. "Because they've already gone up a lot recently" is about the world's worst answer.
I'd say is something like this: conventional investment was and still is offering pretty poor returns so people are looking around for alternatives. That caused some money to flow into the classic car market and pushed up prices. People noticed this and jumped on the bandwagon. We are now well into an unsustainable speculative bubble and while that is fairly widely recognised, some are still prepared to put more money in because they think the bubble has further to go and that they'll be able to get out in time. And others (naively in my opinion) haven't recognised it as a bubble and are piling in blindly. The former group are relying on the latter to be the "bigger fools".
So is there an argument for taking a punt? Yes, if you've got a fairly hefty pair and are prepared to run a fair risk of a loss.
Would I do it with the deposit for my house? Only if I didn't really want a house.
I'd say is something like this: conventional investment was and still is offering pretty poor returns so people are looking around for alternatives. That caused some money to flow into the classic car market and pushed up prices. People noticed this and jumped on the bandwagon. We are now well into an unsustainable speculative bubble and while that is fairly widely recognised, some are still prepared to put more money in because they think the bubble has further to go and that they'll be able to get out in time. And others (naively in my opinion) haven't recognised it as a bubble and are piling in blindly. The former group are relying on the latter to be the "bigger fools".
So is there an argument for taking a punt? Yes, if you've got a fairly hefty pair and are prepared to run a fair risk of a loss.
Would I do it with the deposit for my house? Only if I didn't really want a house.
Agreed with the posts above.
The people talking the prices up tend to be owners or dealers who are happy to sell (cash out) at a high price.
Buy a car because you want it and will enjoy driving it. It prices drop you can take a longer term view and keep it.
Only speculate on cars if you can afford to lose your money.
The people talking the prices up tend to be owners or dealers who are happy to sell (cash out) at a high price.
Buy a car because you want it and will enjoy driving it. It prices drop you can take a longer term view and keep it.
Only speculate on cars if you can afford to lose your money.
yes and keep it and enjoy it ..! hoping to get mine out this weekend..! 
g7jhp said:
Agreed with the posts above.
The people talking the prices up tend to be owners or dealers who are happy to sell (cash out) at a high price.
Or they are people who are interested in various classic cars and have watched them climb in price out of sight over the last four years, there was a thread on here 14 months ago saying, bubble about to burst blah blah, it hasn't and I don't see any convincing arguments that prices will drop in the next 12 months. Mermaid will no doubt now come out with a theory linking immigrants and/or Muslim to an imminent classic car price crash.The people talking the prices up tend to be owners or dealers who are happy to sell (cash out) at a high price.
My comment for the benefit of Strawman. 
Mermaid said:
ging84 said:
No i am not predicting a banking collapse, we've already had that one
What i am predicting is that in a years time classic cars are unlikely to have gained anything, and there is a real risk that they will have fallen
feel free to bump this thread in a year
I agree, more headwinds ahead rather than the wind behind you - interest rates, saturated markets, slowing growth, CHINA, europeWhat i am predicting is that in a years time classic cars are unlikely to have gained anything, and there is a real risk that they will have fallen
feel free to bump this thread in a year
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