M25 crash 30th June 2015 Surrey?
Discussion
Jakg said:
I drove past a very small accident today (car into central reservation, no injuries) on a dual carriage way. Miles of tailbacks in one direction, and slow traffic the other way (rubberneckers).
Perhaps going a little off topic, but rubber necking seems to cause as many problems as the initial accident. I've sat in tailbacks on the clear side of the carriageway that are as long as the tailbacks on the carriageway that the accident actually occurred on!I've often thought...would it be practical to simply install taller barriers in the central reservation? A 6' concrete reservation should be enough to stop most traffic being able to see into the other carriageway - they might not even be aware of an accident, thus wouldn't slow down to look at it.
It might also have other advantages - less risk of vehicles (or debris) crossing into the other carriageway in the event of an accident. Might even be handy for unlit sections of motorway - would allow use of full beam without dazzling oncoming traffic.
Aside from increased cost, and maybe aesthetics, can anyone think why this wouldn't be a practical solution?
Conscript said:
Perhaps going a little off topic, but rubber necking seems to cause as many problems as the initial accident. I've sat in tailbacks on the clear side of the carriageway that are as long as the tailbacks on the carriageway that the accident actually occurred on!
I've often thought...would it be practical to simply install taller barriers in the central reservation? A 6' concrete reservation should be enough to stop most traffic being able to see into the other carriageway - they might not even be aware of an accident, thus wouldn't slow down to look at it.
It might also have other advantages - less risk of vehicles (or debris) crossing into the other carriageway in the event of an accident. Might even be handy for unlit sections of motorway - would allow use of full beam without dazzling oncoming traffic.
Aside from increased cost, and maybe aesthetics, can anyone think why this wouldn't be a practical solution?
It would reduce visibility on right hand bends. Can't think of anything else.I've often thought...would it be practical to simply install taller barriers in the central reservation? A 6' concrete reservation should be enough to stop most traffic being able to see into the other carriageway - they might not even be aware of an accident, thus wouldn't slow down to look at it.
It might also have other advantages - less risk of vehicles (or debris) crossing into the other carriageway in the event of an accident. Might even be handy for unlit sections of motorway - would allow use of full beam without dazzling oncoming traffic.
Aside from increased cost, and maybe aesthetics, can anyone think why this wouldn't be a practical solution?
chriscoates said:
This is true, however having driven on the M25 last weekend it's staggering how poor the driving standards are on there. As soon as you give people 4+ lanes they seem to have no clue about what lane to be in, which results in loss of capacity, congestion, and stop-start traffic, all of which means that those not paying attention will have an accident.
I experienced this last Friday at the M40 turnoff when a young girl in a Corsa realised she needed to leave the M25, but she was in lane 4. She panicked and braked so hard that I and the taxi in front had to do an emergency stop to avoid a pile-up. It was pure luck there was nobody behind within 400 yards of me or there would almost certainly have been an accident. She then managed to force her way across onto the slip road oblivious to the danger she'd just caused.
I think driving standards are massively declining, had someone stop at the end of the slip road a few months back then join the M25 at about 10mph in front of lorries... I'd stopped 50 yards back on the slip as I could see they were drawing to a stop and paused so if they didn't cause a massive crash I'd have some room to accelerate hard, 0.01 second later the white BMW up my chuff starts banging his horn and hollering at me. give up.I experienced this last Friday at the M40 turnoff when a young girl in a Corsa realised she needed to leave the M25, but she was in lane 4. She panicked and braked so hard that I and the taxi in front had to do an emergency stop to avoid a pile-up. It was pure luck there was nobody behind within 400 yards of me or there would almost certainly have been an accident. She then managed to force her way across onto the slip road oblivious to the danger she'd just caused.
Think instead of making the M25 4 lanes each way they should have made it 3-2-3 with a multi-purpose relief road down the middle. If we're going to embrace dumbing drivers down, as a national strategy, we might as well prepare for the consequences, the m25 up by me (enfield) seems to be closed "due to an accident" every other day.
R8VXF said:
They should use one of these to scan the scene, then clear it ASAP. It would preserve evidence positions etc for as long as they need to examine it. http://www.deltasphere.com/deltasphere_crimeaccide...
There was a news reports in the past year or so that they are going to purchase a number of those, or equipment very similar. It mentioned they are used in other countries successfully, and produce evidence suitable for court.
Yup, I'm with the OP on this one.
I often tell my wife that if ever I am the cause of a motorway blockage, tell the authorities my intentions are for them to use the bull bars of their patrol cars to shunt my mangled car / twitching body off the motorway as quickly as possible to keep it all flowing.
I am also OK with them using the sign truck to spell out: "Sorry for the 5 min delay. And yes, the person responsible really is a dick for causing this incovenience". Because behind the 'oh, I hope everybody is OK' sentiments', that is what people are really thinking when crawling past the scene having spent 3hrs in a queue.
I often tell my wife that if ever I am the cause of a motorway blockage, tell the authorities my intentions are for them to use the bull bars of their patrol cars to shunt my mangled car / twitching body off the motorway as quickly as possible to keep it all flowing.
I am also OK with them using the sign truck to spell out: "Sorry for the 5 min delay. And yes, the person responsible really is a dick for causing this incovenience". Because behind the 'oh, I hope everybody is OK' sentiments', that is what people are really thinking when crawling past the scene having spent 3hrs in a queue.
R8VXF said:
They should use one of these to scan the scene, then clear it ASAP. It would preserve evidence positions etc for as long as they need to examine it. http://www.deltasphere.com/deltasphere_crimeaccide...
That's a great call. What a good use of point cloud surveying! A RTA scene. From probably 3-4 scanning locations you could scan every single thing on the scene in minutes. No faffing about with tape measures, the 3D LIDAR scanning kit would pick up every item of debris that's big enough to see. It'd probably even pick up the tire marks, scrapes on the tarmac, everything; the level of detail is amazing.TeaNoSugar said:
R8VXF said:
They should use one of these to scan the scene, then clear it ASAP. It would preserve evidence positions etc for as long as they need to examine it. http://www.deltasphere.com/deltasphere_crimeaccide...
That's a great call. What a good use of point cloud surveying! A RTA scene. From probably 3-4 scanning locations you could scan every single thing on the scene in minutes. No faffing about with tape measures, the 3D LIDAR scanning kit would pick up every item of debris that's big enough to see. It'd probably even pick up the tire marks, scrapes on the tarmac, everything; the level of detail is amazing.Jakg said:
SteveS Cup said:
I'd rather we as a country focussed on mandatory motorway driving instruction as I'm sure it would reduce all of the above. Rather than have a go at the by product why not deal with the actual source of the issue?
Motorways are already the safest roads in the country - it's just that an accident causes a lot more holdups than anywhere else.I drove past a very small accident today (car into central reservation, no injuries) on a dual carriage way. Miles of tailbacks in one direction, and slow traffic the other way (rubberneckers).
Around the corner from my office yesterday, a woman was hit by a car and died on a town street. Road closed, but no increase in traffic anywhere else, no real holdups.
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