evo Mustang Review - just made me think...
Discussion
This isn't particularly about the car, the journo or the periodical..
But i got quite miffed by Dicky Meaden's Mustang 5.0 review.
In effect when you read it it's a pretty solid 4 to even 4.5 star car. then it gets knocked down because "anyone spending that much money would look at what they could get second hand for the same money". But they wouldn't do that with a 40 grand french hatchback that looks like a toad covered in deeeecals? why doesn't a megane trophy lose points because i could buy a ruddy V8 Vantage / R8 / Carrera S for the same money? surely it's not just bias?
Which lead me back to the thought that shouldn't journos just judge a car for what it is against its peers (other new cars) and let PH fill in the "why would I buy an M4 when I could buy an M6 for the same money?" gaps....
[yeah i know I am well old skool innit for subscribing to a magazine!]
But i got quite miffed by Dicky Meaden's Mustang 5.0 review.
In effect when you read it it's a pretty solid 4 to even 4.5 star car. then it gets knocked down because "anyone spending that much money would look at what they could get second hand for the same money". But they wouldn't do that with a 40 grand french hatchback that looks like a toad covered in deeeecals? why doesn't a megane trophy lose points because i could buy a ruddy V8 Vantage / R8 / Carrera S for the same money? surely it's not just bias?
Which lead me back to the thought that shouldn't journos just judge a car for what it is against its peers (other new cars) and let PH fill in the "why would I buy an M4 when I could buy an M6 for the same money?" gaps....
[yeah i know I am well old skool innit for subscribing to a magazine!]
"anyone spending that much money would look at what they could get second hand for the same money" - what uttern, utter tripe.
For most of us, I'd think that the option of a brand spanking new car vs used (and therefore unknown history) car is a no-brainer. Not to mention that a Mustang will remain a rare sight on the roads for a good while to come whereas M3s and Caymans are ten a penny.
So in the absence of anything really negative to say, they resort to completely irrelevant comparisons. Typical UK media. They want to drag up the usual, predictable BS about 'won't go round corners', 'uses loads of fuel' then realise that they can't.
Compare to similar new vehicles by all means.... oh, except there are none at the price are there!! A BMW 2 series costs as much as a Mustang!
I expected more of Meaden. Dickie by name ,Dick(ie) by nature obviously.
For most of us, I'd think that the option of a brand spanking new car vs used (and therefore unknown history) car is a no-brainer. Not to mention that a Mustang will remain a rare sight on the roads for a good while to come whereas M3s and Caymans are ten a penny.
So in the absence of anything really negative to say, they resort to completely irrelevant comparisons. Typical UK media. They want to drag up the usual, predictable BS about 'won't go round corners', 'uses loads of fuel' then realise that they can't.
Compare to similar new vehicles by all means.... oh, except there are none at the price are there!! A BMW 2 series costs as much as a Mustang!
I expected more of Meaden. Dickie by name ,Dick(ie) by nature obviously.
Edited by Stig on Friday 3rd July 18:07
The Mustang could do with a meaner exhaust. I think it is great for what it is and it will be unique on our roads. I've never understood the whole don't x car new when you can get an Aston Martin, Maserati, GTR etc. used for the same price. Completely ignoring the epic difference in maintanence and the fact it is a used car!
I felt a little disappointed in the review as well and I have had a V8 M3 and I get sick of the same cars always getting used as the one you should go for(Cayman/M3 and so on), I applaud Ford for offering the V8 Mustang in right hand drive form big time.
Surely its better to have a car like the Mustang that is built from the ground up as a GT/sporty type car and will be fairly rare too, rather than go for the M3 that when all said and done is just based on a boring diesel saloon car.
Usually I do like what Meaden says and I liked the way he stuck to having a manual in his old R8 long termer instead of the predictable two pedal/paddle bore fest but then you wait years for a right hand drive Mustang to be made and he suggests you buy a bloody M3!!
Surely its better to have a car like the Mustang that is built from the ground up as a GT/sporty type car and will be fairly rare too, rather than go for the M3 that when all said and done is just based on a boring diesel saloon car.
Usually I do like what Meaden says and I liked the way he stuck to having a manual in his old R8 long termer instead of the predictable two pedal/paddle bore fest but then you wait years for a right hand drive Mustang to be made and he suggests you buy a bloody M3!!
Stig said:
For most of us, I'd think that the option of a brand spanking new car vs used (and therefore unknown history) car is a no-brainer.
Exactly, hence I've never bought a new car and own around £50k of used cars that would be over £500k new.However I agree with the OP that when reviewing new cars it's only fair to compare them to other new cars as they simply can't compete with older ones.
It's exactly this sort of thing that means I rarely bother with the automotive press any more, at least when it comes to car reviews. If I want the lowdown on a car I'm considering buying then I'll test drive it and (if it's been about for a while), seek the opinions of forum users as to what it's like to live with long-term. For example when some motoring journos are still trotting out the 'superior German build quality' line, when it seems to have last been true about 20 years ago, I find it difficult to trust anything else they say.
As someone with a new Mustang on order, I can honestly say I didn't even consider a second hand car of similar value to a new mustang.....
I've done the Aston thing and it was ok, but I was always aware that I was driving an 8 year old car, not that it mattered, cos at the time that was what I could afford and that was what I wanted, but this time (the first time since 1985) I decided why not get a brand new car?
I looked at the market, and the Mustang looked good, a bit different from the other euro stuff, and I could have one to my liking.......
I'm really starting to look forward to its arrival....
I've done the Aston thing and it was ok, but I was always aware that I was driving an 8 year old car, not that it mattered, cos at the time that was what I could afford and that was what I wanted, but this time (the first time since 1985) I decided why not get a brand new car?
I looked at the market, and the Mustang looked good, a bit different from the other euro stuff, and I could have one to my liking.......
I'm really starting to look forward to its arrival....
I have one.. Living in the US..!
After many many months of looking for a used Corvette, Challenger, Charger, Camaro and other Euro boxes besides... I took the correct decision and bought a 2015 GT with ALL extras, performance pack, shaker, 50th anniversary - Black on Black and Manual.
Having had it for 2 months now and still loving it.. The correct decision was made..
I do hope the UK build is up to the standard of the customer US ones, I have no miss fitting panels, creaking interior, niggles with electrics or drivetrain. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it, similar to my TVR back in England.
Even with the USA being awash with Mustangs of ALL ages, I get comments and plenty of thumbs up from other drivers young and old.. Keeping the mark alive.
The EVO article, albeit slightly damming in the end was pretty spot on though. Pulls nicely, handles like a sports GT should and comes to a stop nicely with the 6 Pot Brembo's.
The car is pretty well balanced when driving in all conditions, even with a heavy right foot, although it has not been on a track yet.
The stock exhaust is a little quiet to be honest.. From the factory, It has a pitch and burble like no other. It isn't a screaming Fezza, a rumbling TVR or a raspy Porsche. After market additions are coming online very fast over here, X pipe, H pipe, Axle back boxes for all owners needs. I am looking at the Roush Quad tip addition which can be set to the extreme by opening up all 4 tail pipes.
Rear seats... If you want to cart anyone over 4' 8" for a prolonged distance then you'll be disappointed, even though the game of passengers getting in and out is fun to watch. The powered seats do not slide forward for easy access, which is a pain. Although, when sitting in the rear, they are pretty comfortable with your backside very deep into the rear of the car.
The boot is substantial for a GT.. A couple of suitcases or 2 sets of Golf clubs fit snugly, so Chimera drivers will be happy.
For driving.. Ford have made a very good job of the driving position, gauges, controls and gear shift. It is where it should be and what you expect. (Although everything is on the wrong side - LHD)
My only little issue is the ratio of the stock gears. First and second are quite short with the power on tap, 60 comes so fast at the top end of Second that time is lost when accelerating hard. Third however is a dream, pulling hard and long as you would hope. Sixth is definitely for cruising, which can be selected as low as 40mph, resulting in a 1,000 rpm burble without much effort.
It is obviously a pretty thirsty car, with an insanely small tank. Gentle around town driving is getting around 16.5MPG using American premium fuel. 250 miles per tank at this rate.
The Mustang is living up to everything that I wanted it to be... A great looking, comfortable, daily driver - which suddenly becomes this beast of a weekend car or whenever it is pushed. I am glad that I am keeping the Mustang mark alive.
Ford have hit all the right notes with this one.
After many many months of looking for a used Corvette, Challenger, Charger, Camaro and other Euro boxes besides... I took the correct decision and bought a 2015 GT with ALL extras, performance pack, shaker, 50th anniversary - Black on Black and Manual.
Having had it for 2 months now and still loving it.. The correct decision was made..
I do hope the UK build is up to the standard of the customer US ones, I have no miss fitting panels, creaking interior, niggles with electrics or drivetrain. It brings a smile to my face every time I drive it, similar to my TVR back in England.
Even with the USA being awash with Mustangs of ALL ages, I get comments and plenty of thumbs up from other drivers young and old.. Keeping the mark alive.
The EVO article, albeit slightly damming in the end was pretty spot on though. Pulls nicely, handles like a sports GT should and comes to a stop nicely with the 6 Pot Brembo's.
The car is pretty well balanced when driving in all conditions, even with a heavy right foot, although it has not been on a track yet.
The stock exhaust is a little quiet to be honest.. From the factory, It has a pitch and burble like no other. It isn't a screaming Fezza, a rumbling TVR or a raspy Porsche. After market additions are coming online very fast over here, X pipe, H pipe, Axle back boxes for all owners needs. I am looking at the Roush Quad tip addition which can be set to the extreme by opening up all 4 tail pipes.
Rear seats... If you want to cart anyone over 4' 8" for a prolonged distance then you'll be disappointed, even though the game of passengers getting in and out is fun to watch. The powered seats do not slide forward for easy access, which is a pain. Although, when sitting in the rear, they are pretty comfortable with your backside very deep into the rear of the car.
The boot is substantial for a GT.. A couple of suitcases or 2 sets of Golf clubs fit snugly, so Chimera drivers will be happy.
For driving.. Ford have made a very good job of the driving position, gauges, controls and gear shift. It is where it should be and what you expect. (Although everything is on the wrong side - LHD)
My only little issue is the ratio of the stock gears. First and second are quite short with the power on tap, 60 comes so fast at the top end of Second that time is lost when accelerating hard. Third however is a dream, pulling hard and long as you would hope. Sixth is definitely for cruising, which can be selected as low as 40mph, resulting in a 1,000 rpm burble without much effort.
It is obviously a pretty thirsty car, with an insanely small tank. Gentle around town driving is getting around 16.5MPG using American premium fuel. 250 miles per tank at this rate.
The Mustang is living up to everything that I wanted it to be... A great looking, comfortable, daily driver - which suddenly becomes this beast of a weekend car or whenever it is pushed. I am glad that I am keeping the Mustang mark alive.
Ford have hit all the right notes with this one.
I was recently left rather unimpressed by how Evo treated the new Corvette. It seemed that initially having had to grudgingly accept that it was pretty bloody good they then did a back to back test against the 911 which, despite the Vette objectively being faster on every measure was then punished "for not feeling as nice"
So then they had another go the following month to stick the boot when they pitched it against The 911 GT3. The rather unsurprising "loss" completely avoiding the obvious notion that the Corvette was just a little over half the money... basically they just kept pitching the Corvette up against more and more exotic 911s until it lost was the impression I was left with.
And then they did the mismatching thing again last month, awarding a decision to the spangly new AMG GT over the Nissan GTR in a group test based on little more than that they liked the newer car because it was newer. The Nissan as tested was £71,000k. The Mercedes was £147,000... so that's a fair comparison then.
So then they had another go the following month to stick the boot when they pitched it against The 911 GT3. The rather unsurprising "loss" completely avoiding the obvious notion that the Corvette was just a little over half the money... basically they just kept pitching the Corvette up against more and more exotic 911s until it lost was the impression I was left with.
And then they did the mismatching thing again last month, awarding a decision to the spangly new AMG GT over the Nissan GTR in a group test based on little more than that they liked the newer car because it was newer. The Nissan as tested was £71,000k. The Mercedes was £147,000... so that's a fair comparison then.
Edited by corozin on Saturday 4th July 01:42
I think you make a fair point and in my opinion, not everyone wants a used car. I've always preferred to buy brand new but realise that for the momey, I could have a much 'better' car for the same money on the used market. I just like having a car from new and then try my best to look after it.
Mustang looks lovely, looking forward to seeing one on the roads.
Mustang looks lovely, looking forward to seeing one on the roads.
|http://thumbsnap.com/aRhLL2h2[/url]Everyone does that though. Even that thread on Kias here on PH recently turned into a comparison against 1 or 2 year old Passats and whatnot. This thread will, too. It all depends on what you really want but I agree that comparing new and used is pointless. The more used you go the higher class car you get - but it's older. So go 3 years old and be in an M3, why would you get a 3 year old M3 when for the same money you could be in a 6 year old Aston or Bentley or whatever.
When you get a new car you spec it how you want it, you're likely to get the most reliable years the car is ever going to give, and if not at least you have factory warranty. Then over the next three years you pay a fortune for these while you experience the most spectacular part of the car's depreciation curve... maybe. There's always the chance if it's brand new on the market and very desirable, as a V8 Mustang might be in its first year, you may well be able to sell it on in 12 months time for little loss or even a premium, while the 3 year old M3 will continue losing money.
Whatever the buyer's choice, and mine in the UK is almost certainly to buy used (though lease deals are changing that a bit), someone has to buy the new cars for the whole thing to work. And in my experience the used car market in the UK is unusually attractive financially. I haven't seen depreciation like we see in the UK in other regions.
When you get a new car you spec it how you want it, you're likely to get the most reliable years the car is ever going to give, and if not at least you have factory warranty. Then over the next three years you pay a fortune for these while you experience the most spectacular part of the car's depreciation curve... maybe. There's always the chance if it's brand new on the market and very desirable, as a V8 Mustang might be in its first year, you may well be able to sell it on in 12 months time for little loss or even a premium, while the 3 year old M3 will continue losing money.
Whatever the buyer's choice, and mine in the UK is almost certainly to buy used (though lease deals are changing that a bit), someone has to buy the new cars for the whole thing to work. And in my experience the used car market in the UK is unusually attractive financially. I haven't seen depreciation like we see in the UK in other regions.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
V8RX7 said:
Exactly, hence I've never bought a new car and own around £50k of used cars that would be over £500k new.
Which ones would those be, out of interest?What would an RX7 cost new £30k ? - I've two of them.
A caravelle is closest to my T4 and they are £35k
Custom LWB 5 seater with full size pick up bed
F150 4x4
Dodge Ram V8
3 supercharged MX5s - how much are 200+bhp/ton 2 seat convertibles ? £30k ?
200SX
V6 MR2 - what mid engined V6 cars are about new ?
The vast majority of my cars don't have ABS and none have Traction / stability control which is the way I like it - I don't think I even buy a new car without them.
I'm grateful there are new car buyers as it means there is a plentiful supply of used cars but I don't envisage ever buying one (I have had a couple of new Co. cars and I hated them but they were the usual Rep mobiles rather than Ferraris etc)
swerni said:
V8RX7 said:
Exactly, hence I've never bought a new car and own around £50k of used cars that would be over £500k new.
However I agree with the OP that when reviewing new cars it's only fair to compare them to other new cars as they simply can't compete with older ones.
Would like to buy some magic beans?However I agree with the OP that when reviewing new cars it's only fair to compare them to other new cars as they simply can't compete with older ones.
Or did one of your cars come with £400k of gold bars the boot?
Lets start with the 240bhp mid engined V6 ?
V8RX7 said:
swerni said:
V8RX7 said:
Exactly, hence I've never bought a new car and own around £50k of used cars that would be over £500k new.
However I agree with the OP that when reviewing new cars it's only fair to compare them to other new cars as they simply can't compete with older ones.
Would like to buy some magic beans?However I agree with the OP that when reviewing new cars it's only fair to compare them to other new cars as they simply can't compete with older ones.
Or did one of your cars come with £400k of gold bars the boot?
Lets start with the 240bhp mid engined V6 ?
I think the Mustang is great but like the Monaros, they are just too big and slightly crude.
I'm glad they are around and glad people buy them but they just don't tick my boxes; mind you I'm very anti saloons which skews my judgement a little.
Epic sounds from both though; I often here a local VXR (600bhp one) around our way; the sounds rips holes in the aural fabric of Cornwall.
I'm glad they are around and glad people buy them but they just don't tick my boxes; mind you I'm very anti saloons which skews my judgement a little.
Epic sounds from both though; I often here a local VXR (600bhp one) around our way; the sounds rips holes in the aural fabric of Cornwall.
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