Small batch aluminium casting of uprights

Small batch aluminium casting of uprights

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Discussion

foggy

Original Poster:

1,158 posts

282 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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The bespoke cast aluminium uprights on the rear of my track car are acknowledged as being virtually unobtainable nowadays so I was idly wondering about the process involved in having some cast whilst I still have a fully functioning straight pair to use as a pattern. By getting a few done it could help spread the cost and other owners and racers in the future too.

Anybody into this who could offer any insight into the process please. From memory they are around 200mm tall, 150mm wide with a machined centre to accept an interference fit wheel bearing. Wishbones & toe control link bolt to the top & bottom of the upright. I'm near Newbury if anybody knows of any suitable companies to contact for casting & machining.

Thanks!

ferrariF50lover

1,834 posts

226 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Apologies if this is crassly unhelpful but...

[Long story short]

Enthusiasts prefer the Mk1 Elise for racing as it had steel uprights rather than aluminium, which isn't as stiff.

Have you considered a heavier but stiffer option which might be more readily available?

foggy

Original Poster:

1,158 posts

282 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
quotequote all
Apparently one owner has fabricated steel ones in absence of cast aluminium replacements, so yes it could be an option.

It's really an enquiry at the moment for a potential winter project.

wemorgan

3,578 posts

178 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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OEM use this company for prototype castings:

http://www.sarginsons.com/contact/

Rick1.8t

1,463 posts

179 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Pop a picture up if you can, for small batches it may be cost effective to machine from billet. (Which I may be able to help with)

foggy

Original Poster:

1,158 posts

282 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
quotequote all
See http://website.lineone.net/~g27build/rearsus.htm for a couple of pics.

It shows the rear upright on a late Ginetta G27 with IRS, which is the same as that on the rear of my G20.

Billet uprights could indeed be another option.

delta0

2,351 posts

106 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Small batch and casting are not always the most economical. Machine from billet may be cheaper and will definitely be stronger if you use a decent aluminium.

andy43

9,717 posts

254 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Strange that it has a massive spacer on the lower wbone mount and then a bolt on add on bracket for the top mount - the upright could be redesigned to eliminate both.

foggy

Original Poster:

1,158 posts

282 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
quotequote all
andy43 said:
Strange that it has a massive spacer on the lower wbone mount and then a bolt on add on bracket for the top mount - the upright could be redesigned to eliminate both.
Haha agreed, all good old cottage industry car (lack of) design that could be engineered out. TBH I don't mind the additional upper bolted on bracket - I believe it's included as a deliberate weak link as it deforms & breaks thus saving the upright from damage in a minor shunt. The lower spacer is a straightforward oversight in design - the handbrake cable fowls the toe link end without said spacer. Not an issue on my car though as it doesn't have a handbrake, but if machining from billet I'd tweak the design to incorporate it.

PAUL500

2,634 posts

246 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Mark at MT motorsport is your man, he is currently producing small batch castings and similar cnc work for race RS500s I am sure he can help you.

7clubs

23 posts

119 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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If you go machined rather than cast, these are your people in Newbury:

http://www.engsol.co.uk/


Rick1.8t

1,463 posts

179 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
quotequote all
foggy said:
See http://website.lineone.net/~g27build/rearsus.htm for a couple of pics.

It shows the rear upright on a late Ginetta G27 with IRS, which is the same as that on the rear of my G20.

Billet uprights could indeed be another option.
I am sure we would have no problem with machining those here. If you are seriously looking to have a small batch made pop me a PM - I own a small machineshop (3/4 axis milling) and it would be nice to work on something new / interesting.


Edited by Rick1.8t on Sunday 5th July 22:21

PhillipM

6,520 posts

189 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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ferrariF50lover said:
Apologies if this is crassly unhelpful but...

[Long story short]

Enthusiasts prefer the Mk1 Elise for racing as it had steel uprights rather than aluminium, which isn't as stiff.

Have you considered a heavier but stiffer option which might be more readily available?
That's more an issue with the upright design rather than material tbh...

plasticman

899 posts

251 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Where abouts are you Rick(1.8t) ?

The Wookie

13,946 posts

228 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Another vote for billet. Make sure you get the machined faces on the original measured properly using a CMM to avoid any mistakes with the kinematics, or alternatively design in some adjustment as on a racing car you may want to take out some of the bump-steer that Lotus typically engineer into their road cars.

Rick1.8t

1,463 posts

179 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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plasticman said:
Where abouts are you Rick(1.8t) ?
West Midlands - Cannock

Feel free to drop me a PM if you have anything you would like discuss.

In terms of measuring the part, it doesnt have too many features and i doubt original part tolerances are that high - it certainly isnt a problem part and was likely designed for ease of manufacture. CMM would add unnecessary cost imo at this level / complexity but i agree with adding a means of adjustment if required.

mwstewart

7,600 posts

188 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Billet for reasons already pointed out above.

I would only attempt to fund a cast replica if entering something like concourse.

The Wookie

13,946 posts

228 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
Rick1.8t said:
In terms of measuring the part, it doesnt have too many features and i doubt original part tolerances are that high - it certainly isnt a problem part and was likely designed for ease of manufacture. CMM would add unnecessary cost imo at this level / complexity but i agree with adding a means of adjustment if required.
I was thinking more of suspension pickup points and its effect on the kinematics. A 1mm change in the height of the toe link point will make for a significant change in bumpsteer. 1mm in one dimension is pretty easy to measure but on a suspension upright all of the measurements are interdependent in 3 dimensions, which would be hard to get right without a CMM unless there's a simpler alternative I haven't considered.

Edited by The Wookie on Monday 6th July 17:18

Rick1.8t

1,463 posts

179 months

Monday 6th July 2015
quotequote all
The Wookie said:
Rick1.8t said:
In terms of measuring the part, it doesnt have too many features and i doubt original part tolerances are that high - it certainly isnt a problem part and was likely designed for ease of manufacture. CMM would add unnecessary cost imo at this level / complexity but i agree with adding a means of adjustment if required.
I was thinking more of suspension pickup points and its effect on the kinematics. A 1mm change in the height of the toe link point will make for a significant change in bumpsteer. 1mm in one dimension is pretty easy to measure but on a suspension upright all of the measurements are interdependent in 3 dimensions, which would be hard to get right without a CMM.
Agreed, we would just use a 3D probe in a VMC to pickup the 3-4 dimensions required so a similar method really.


The Wookie

13,946 posts

228 months

Monday 6th July 2015
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Ahh, didn't realise you could do that with a VMC!