RE: The £70K M3 CSL: Spotted
Discussion
Just briefly, I've noted an E46 M3 cab for £30k 16k miles.
Also noted when searching:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Miles are extremely low. But £40,000?
Also noted when searching:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Miles are extremely low. But £40,000?
Collectors will buy one 'cos they want one in their collection and will pay a premium for the right one and that's their privilige, speculators/investors will buy low and be out of the market before they lose their shirts when prices rise and fall back again - assuming they know what they're doing so little point in being smug about falling values - it's Ministry if the Bleedin' Obvious that values go up and down and jealousy to scoff at investors losing money. Drivers will buy for the joy of owning and running this wonderful machine. I'm the latter and I make sure I have a big enough budget to keep my machine tip-top.
An M3 is for sure a great car, but its not a CSL, you can bolt bits to a standard M3 all you want, it will never be a CSL. Why would someone even do that? You can bolt wings to a fish but its still a fish.You can bolt bits to many cars to make them quicker and better than a CSL so I'm not sure of the point of that old regurgitation. The CSL and M3 are very different animals and there's no benefit in comparing them other than to fill up boxes on forum comments pages with tired old bullsh*t. Buy a CSL for use as an M3, more fool you. Buy an M3 to convert to a CSL more fool you, buy a CSL for track use and you made a great, but expensive decision, buy an M3 to convert to a track car and bingo, you made the best decision.
The SMG is a quirk of the car, a design decision to wring extra tenths off laptimes and it does just that. If you're driving the CSL off track, the SMG is a b
h - but why would someone do that? It's a track car! The CSL should not have a back seat, thats just weird and a design flaw, as are the sh*te stock brakes both of which undermine the SMG benefit. The CSL is undeniably compromised in focus and has contradictions. I guess BMW aimed the car at single-car drivers to increase market potential.
As an owner, the investment/value side of things affects the enjoyment of my car, and I hope values stabilise or fall. Medium to high mileage CSLs will never recoup decent return against risk when all costs are taken into account, low milers, sub-10k will have investment potential but they've ceased to be cars at such a point, they have become an investment instrument. If they return to being cars later then all well and good.
An M3 is for sure a great car, but its not a CSL, you can bolt bits to a standard M3 all you want, it will never be a CSL. Why would someone even do that? You can bolt wings to a fish but its still a fish.You can bolt bits to many cars to make them quicker and better than a CSL so I'm not sure of the point of that old regurgitation. The CSL and M3 are very different animals and there's no benefit in comparing them other than to fill up boxes on forum comments pages with tired old bullsh*t. Buy a CSL for use as an M3, more fool you. Buy an M3 to convert to a CSL more fool you, buy a CSL for track use and you made a great, but expensive decision, buy an M3 to convert to a track car and bingo, you made the best decision.
The SMG is a quirk of the car, a design decision to wring extra tenths off laptimes and it does just that. If you're driving the CSL off track, the SMG is a b
h - but why would someone do that? It's a track car! The CSL should not have a back seat, thats just weird and a design flaw, as are the sh*te stock brakes both of which undermine the SMG benefit. The CSL is undeniably compromised in focus and has contradictions. I guess BMW aimed the car at single-car drivers to increase market potential.As an owner, the investment/value side of things affects the enjoyment of my car, and I hope values stabilise or fall. Medium to high mileage CSLs will never recoup decent return against risk when all costs are taken into account, low milers, sub-10k will have investment potential but they've ceased to be cars at such a point, they have become an investment instrument. If they return to being cars later then all well and good.
Phateuk said:
That brought this story to mind (csl parts stolen) :
Ah, now, I didn't mean that kind of fun! In fact Rick H has now summed it up better than me. Buying a vanilla E46 M3 and spending all that money prepping it so it's an awesome track weapon would be more my kind of fun. Those threads are always more enjoyable to read after all.
TREMAiNE said:
When you adjust for inflation, the cost when new was actually circa £82,000
So for £70k, providing values continue to climb, its actually not that bad of a price...
Having said that, I'd personally sooner spend 15k on a normal M3 and then 55k on a Ferrari 360
Then you would have 2 depreciating cars slower than a CSL. So for £70k, providing values continue to climb, its actually not that bad of a price...
Having said that, I'd personally sooner spend 15k on a normal M3 and then 55k on a Ferrari 360
Well done.
Mike Rainbird said:
Guvernator said:
Interesting as the CSL was almost universally panned when it first came out, everything from it's too expensive to crappy gearbox, even the "cardboard boot floor" was mocked and now look.
I think "they don't make them like they used to" is definitely a factor but so is the huge turn around by journalists who seem to like nothing more than crowing this "fact" from the rooftops. Countless articles in Evo et all are IMO one of the biggest factors in the rising price bubble of enthusiast cars from this era and it looks like PH are happy to jump on the bandwagon in pushing those prices up even further
All the reviews I read heaped nothing but praise on the car, with Clarkson even famously coining the phrase "BMW at its best". The only criticisms I can recall was the price difference (but that was nothing to do with driving dynamics) and also that the steering was down on some feel (which I believe is attributable to the stiffer sidewalls of the Cups, as subsequent later reviews with the Pilot Super-sports on don't seem to mention any lack of steering feel, but instead praise the speed of the rack). I think "they don't make them like they used to" is definitely a factor but so is the huge turn around by journalists who seem to like nothing more than crowing this "fact" from the rooftops. Countless articles in Evo et all are IMO one of the biggest factors in the rising price bubble of enthusiast cars from this era and it looks like PH are happy to jump on the bandwagon in pushing those prices up even further
Obviously even back then some people bemoaned the fact that it didn't come with a manual option (but they still do that now with the 991 GT3, and no-one would say that still isn't a great driver's car). The SMG can be a bit boring on the road in every day give-and-take driving (where having a clutch peddle and gear lever to manipulate allows you get some enjoyment from stirring the gearbox and rev-matching), but that was never BMW's remit - even in the supplementary manual that came with the car, it talks about "when driving it on track" and this is where the car comes alive, as it is really the only place you can explore the monumental grip of the tyres without getting locked up anyway. Don't forget that despite subsequent BMW models having far more power, the CSL still remained the fastest car that BMW buit around the Nordschleife, until the introduction of the other limited edition model (the E92 M3 GTS @ 7:48), and that was twice the money of the CSL and was only 2s faster..... This goes to show just how good the CSL is and is one of the few cars that seems to punch well above it's weight and perform better than the sum of it's parts.
As to the cardboard floor, that is a myth started by Gezzer. The floor in the CSL is the same as in every E46 M3, it just has a fibre-board cover over the tool-kit and electric compressor - but then so do quite a lot of cars (even my old Sierra Cosworth had a fibre-board cover over the spare wheel).
To those wondering if the CSL and standard M3 are truly that much different, just drive them back to back and you wouldn't even recognise them as the same car if you closed your eyes (not to be recommended while you are driving
). A standard M3 feels like a barge by comparison and getting back into the CSL feels like you're in a go-kart that can be chucked around, where the M3 feels like the wing mirrors are going to scrape on the ground by comparison .Don't get me wrong, a normal M3 can be made into a PROPER weapon, but it is obviously compromised far more as BMWs target audience for this model was a much more diverse range of people, where the CSL is a far more focused proposition that was built to show-off BMW's motorsport pedigree and all their material technologies. Don't forget this was 2003, so carbon fibre roof and the SMG box were considered to be cutting edge LOL. Also don't forget it wasn't until the introduction of the GT3 RS that even Porsche couldn't build a faster lapping car of the 'ring
. Even the 400bhp / 1150kg Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale is 6 seconds slower - the CSL is truly remarkable.Many of you will say that the 'ring lap times aren't relevant - but considering this is what BMW built the car to achieve in the first place, it has to be mentioned just how fast it is in comparison to much more expensive machinery and IMO is why it deserves its place in history.
Different day, same old bull.
If you're lucky enough to have one of these then you'll appreciate what an outstanding machine it actually is.
The majority of those who don't have one jump on the bandwagon of it being a tarted up M3 with a clapped out gearbox.
I'm one of those lucky enough to own one and compared to a standard M3, the diference is like night and day ( and yes, I've had a standard M3 ).
Those that moan about the gearbox, how many of you actually tried it? Not many at a guess.
As for comparing the car to some sort of Porsche, it isn't a Porsche, end of.
Too many seem to have an informed opinion on the CSL yet, in reality, not many posting have actually ever seen one let alone either driven or had a passenger ride.
If you're lucky enough to have one of these then you'll appreciate what an outstanding machine it actually is.
The majority of those who don't have one jump on the bandwagon of it being a tarted up M3 with a clapped out gearbox.
I'm one of those lucky enough to own one and compared to a standard M3, the diference is like night and day ( and yes, I've had a standard M3 ).
Those that moan about the gearbox, how many of you actually tried it? Not many at a guess.
As for comparing the car to some sort of Porsche, it isn't a Porsche, end of.
Too many seem to have an informed opinion on the CSL yet, in reality, not many posting have actually ever seen one let alone either driven or had a passenger ride.
CSLmarson said:
TREMAiNE said:
When you adjust for inflation, the cost when new was actually circa £82,000
So for £70k, providing values continue to climb, its actually not that bad of a price...
Having said that, I'd personally sooner spend 15k on a normal M3 and then 55k on a Ferrari 360
Then you would have 2 depreciating cars slower than a CSL. So for £70k, providing values continue to climb, its actually not that bad of a price...
Having said that, I'd personally sooner spend 15k on a normal M3 and then 55k on a Ferrari 360
Well done.
moktabe said:
Too many seem to have an informed opinion on the CSL yet, in reality, not many posting have actually ever seen one let alone either driven or had a passenger ride.
Welcome to pistonheads I am sure its a great machine to drive and it could go around the ring in two minutes for me but it can never hide the fact the its still only a 3 series and is based on a boring standard car in the first place.I prefer something that is designed from the ground up as a sports car or track car rather than something tarted up...in fairness though with the money they fetch it certainly doesn't seem to bother the ones that own/buy them.
moktabe said:
Different day, same old bull.
If you're lucky enough to have one of these then you'll appreciate what an outstanding machine it actually is.
The majority of those who don't have one jump on the bandwagon of it being a tarted up M3 with a clapped out gearbox.
I'm one of those lucky enough to own one and compared to a standard M3, the diference is like night and day ( and yes, I've had a standard M3 ).
Those that moan about the gearbox, how many of you actually tried it? Not many at a guess.
As for comparing the car to some sort of Porsche, it isn't a Porsche, end of.
Too many seem to have an informed opinion on the CSL yet, in reality, not many posting have actually ever seen one let alone either driven or had a passenger ride.
Go on then, tell us!If you're lucky enough to have one of these then you'll appreciate what an outstanding machine it actually is.
The majority of those who don't have one jump on the bandwagon of it being a tarted up M3 with a clapped out gearbox.
I'm one of those lucky enough to own one and compared to a standard M3, the diference is like night and day ( and yes, I've had a standard M3 ).
Those that moan about the gearbox, how many of you actually tried it? Not many at a guess.
As for comparing the car to some sort of Porsche, it isn't a Porsche, end of.
Too many seem to have an informed opinion on the CSL yet, in reality, not many posting have actually ever seen one let alone either driven or had a passenger ride.
TX.
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