RE: BMW 340i :Driven
Discussion
Steering feel in the hydraulic E82 was nothing short of terrible compared to a car with proper steering feel (whether hydro or leccy) so the electric steering facelift was only very marginally worse. It really has very little to do with steering tech. Drive a GT86 with electric steering to see how a well set up steering system feels like. M235i suspension is a serious step up compared to the M Sport set up of old (E series) both in compression and rebound damping. Not perfect of course but far better. Only in my experience of both chassis on and off the track of course.
If anyone's interested, today's Autocar have a comparison between the 340i and the competing 6 cylinder XE. There are some objective measures that are better on the BMW (more power, better mpg, available with a manual gearbox and cheaper to buy), but they prefer the way the XE drives. It should be said though that the test 340i's spec of non M Sport suspension (which everyone seems to agree on the newer models that it just understeers and is nasty) and variable steering (which everyone seems to agree is horrible) played a big part in that decision, and Autocar acknowledge that. Personally I'm going to try both cars anyway when I replace my current 3 series, as will most people I suspect, especially those into cars.
Robert Elise said:
what's your view of the Japanese? i sense the engineers still focus on details but that procurement could be tighter (airbags et al)
Agree with this view. My opinion is that the "over-engineering" period was in the mid to late 90s and ever since then they have been slowly cheapening out their cars, although not to the extent of other manufacturers.Cars like the Honda NSX and original Lexus LS were fantastically engineered, and probably wouldn't get the same development budget from Honda or Toyota these days.
JD said:
Dion20vt said:
£38k for a non M BMW??? Am I the only one thinking this will depreciate badly?
If I had £38k to splash on a fast practical car, I'd go for one of these: http://selekt.volvocars.co.uk/en/used-cars/Volvo/V...
And before the pedantic patrol start the argument old Vs new... it's hardly a greek relic is it!
The Previous owner of my 335i paid over £40k for it... in 2008.If I had £38k to splash on a fast practical car, I'd go for one of these: http://selekt.volvocars.co.uk/en/used-cars/Volvo/V...
And before the pedantic patrol start the argument old Vs new... it's hardly a greek relic is it!
Put it another way. It's a 3-series that offers the power and pace of a 10yr old M3, along with a high standard spec, for only £38k.
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
My 2007 330i was over £40k. The £40k non-M 3-series is nothing new. Far Far from it. It just makes good hype.
You must have had some nice tasty options on it for that money. A £40k 3-series is nothing particularly new.
Ares said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
My 2007 330i was over £40k. The £40k non-M 3-series is nothing new. Far Far from it. It just makes good hype.
You must have had some nice tasty options on it for that money. A £40k 3-series is nothing particularly new.
Dannbodge said:
Willy waving time but my '09 335i was nearly £55k when it was new.
That is big money and I bet it was a lovely spec, when I had my 2009 M3 I never thought that was worth its asking price from new at around £50k at all, it was used and paid £30k and you don't get much with the M3 interior wise to lift it from a normal 3 series either. I don't know why people are surprised by the price (£38k). I can't imagine anyone is going to buy a bog standard spec 340i anyway, and the discounts are going to be sizeable (20%+). As for the steering debate, seems a bit silly to me - it's a family saloon car at the end of the day, albeit a quick one. FWIW I think the F30 steering is pretty good (normal and VSS) and no worse than the steering on the E90.
Nohedes said:
FWIW I think the F30 steering is pretty good (normal and VSS) and no worse than the steering on the E90.
I personally find the steering far better on the E90 when compared to the F30 but completely agree with you that its just a family saloon so in reality it doesn't really make much difference in the scheme of things. Good steering feel is absolutely vital on any car of any description. I could never fit in most sports cars, so I get my kicks from decent-handling saloons (and estates) - when I spent a month in an F11 520d, the complete absence of steering feel made it a very disconcerting thing to drive, especially in the dark, and one could not derive the slightest enjoyment from thrashing it down a B-road. I was so glad to get back in my E39 after that. Newer, in that case, was certainly not better.
RoverP6B said:
Good steering feel is absolutely vital on any car of any description. I could never fit in most sports cars, so I get my kicks from decent-handling saloons (and estates) - when I spent a month in an F11 520d, the complete absence of steering feel made it a very disconcerting thing to drive, especially in the dark, and one could not derive the slightest enjoyment from thrashing it down a B-road. I was so glad to get back in my E39 after that. Newer, in that case, was certainly not better.
Newer is never better to be honest and the current electric steering, turbo's and twin clutch gearboxes are a good case in point and cars in the past are just more involving and enjoyable to drive for me. Actually, there was one aspect in which the F11 was quite spectacularly excellent and made everything else I've driven seem utterly feeble in comparison: its windscreen washers. Never before had I pulled a stalk and unleashed an explosive tsunami upon the glass in front of me. If I could have those windscreen washers on my E39s, I'd be happy.
cerb4.5lee said:
aeropilot said:
Dr S said:
Drove a pretty new rental 3-series the other day. The steering made me feel like driving a playstation.
Yup. It's why I said no thanks after I had a test drive of the M235 last year when it came out, the electric steering was hideous. My E82 135i felt so much more 'alive' when I got back into it afterwards with it's lovely hydraulic steering and friskier chassis.
Can't see me buying any newer BMW in the near future.
I am torn because I genuinely like the idea of a M235i/M2 but the way BMW`s are going now with their woeful electric steering and obsession with saving fuel and chasing low emissions means that a BMW that is truly enjoyable to drive is a thing of the past sadly.
Edited by cerb4.5lee on Monday 20th July 23:01
I still have an old Ferrari 348 that has probably got the best steering feel of any car I have ever owned and I simply don't expect any new car to better that to be honest, so I have stopped worrying about it. Electric steering is like turbo engines I'm afraid - here to stay - and we probably just have to get used to it now and move on. The chances of manufacturers turning the clock back on mainstream production cars are pretty slim.
mikebrownhill said:
cerb4.5lee said:
aeropilot said:
Dr S said:
Drove a pretty new rental 3-series the other day. The steering made me feel like driving a playstation.
Yup. It's why I said no thanks after I had a test drive of the M235 last year when it came out, the electric steering was hideous. My E82 135i felt so much more 'alive' when I got back into it afterwards with it's lovely hydraulic steering and friskier chassis.
Can't see me buying any newer BMW in the near future.
I am torn because I genuinely like the idea of a M235i/M2 but the way BMW`s are going now with their woeful electric steering and obsession with saving fuel and chasing low emissions means that a BMW that is truly enjoyable to drive is a thing of the past sadly.
Edited by cerb4.5lee on Monday 20th July 23:01
I still have an old Ferrari 348 that has probably got the best steering feel of any car I have ever owned and I simply don't expect any new car to better that to be honest, so I have stopped worrying about it. Electric steering is like turbo engines I'm afraid - here to stay - and we probably just have to get used to it now and move on. The chances of manufacturers turning the clock back on mainstream production cars are pretty slim.
I have just ordered a 340i Touring. Taken a couple weeks to decide on the spec., but am now having a panic about whether I should have spec'd the variable sport steering or not. At the moment, I haven't (based on a couple reviews saying it should be avoided). Should I spec it?? My wife's 120d (somehow) has VSS and other than having zero feel, is fine IMO.
Roma101 said:
I have just ordered a 340i Touring. Taken a couple weeks to decide on the spec., but am now having a panic about whether I should have spec'd the variable sport steering or not. At the moment, I haven't (based on a couple reviews saying it should be avoided). Should I spec it?? My wife's 120d (somehow) has VSS and other than having zero feel, is fine IMO.
Hell no, live without it, if the petrol engines are the same as the Diesels then you'll get the Servotronic steering on the more powerful versions by default (was on 330d +). Variable sports steering.
Sports driving dynamics meet maximum comfort: variable sports steering adapts the angle of the front wheels to the actual conditions so that the new BMW 3 Series Sedan reacts more or less directly to the driver’s steering commands.
The steering wheel movements required for large wheel angles are reduced by up to 25 per cent. Parking and cornering thus become easier and more comfortable because the driver has to exert less effort.
Handling qualities also benefit, such as when rapid evasive manoeuvres are required.
In the case of smaller steering angles between zero and 100 degrees, the car displays accurate tracking and high stability on straight stretches while conducting steering movements with impressive precision. The steering ratio in each case is determined purely mechanically by a variable transmission for the steering rack.
Servotronic.
Effortless agility when parking, light-footed responsiveness and stability at higher speeds: Servotronic adjusts the amount of steering assistance to suit the current speed, enhancing driver comfort by lowering the effort needed to turn the steering wheel.
The Servotronic control unit adjusts the amount of steering assistance to suit the speed of the vehicle. An electromagnetic valve accurately controls the amount of force applied by the steering hydraulics, enabling outstandingly precise steering that suits your current driving situation. Conventional power steering systems, by contrast, regulate the power steering in relation to the engine's RPM. The electromechanical steering system EPS uses an electric motor to achieve the same effect.
Thanks to Servotronic, driving along narrow streets or parking becomes easier as it requires minimum effort to turn the steering wheel. The power assist progressively decreases when the vehicle speeds up, ensuring greater stability, improved precision and smoother vehicle behaviour.
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