RE: Tesla 'Ludicrous Mode' introduced
Discussion
The acceleration is a neat party piece, but not really what the car is about, it is sort of showing IC power, even at its peak as being kind of outmoded and inefficient.
I fully understand the power has to come from somewhere, but it is still more efficient than an IC car, the IC engine is wonderful and we have grown to love it but it is so much of a refined bodge compared to the wonderous simplicity of an electric motor.
The writing is on the wall really, it is just really how long it takes, remember when the LCD panel tvs and monitors came in, when did you last see a CRT ? ok it wont replace every use case, but if that battery tech gets sorted sufficiently, and they arent doing that badly to be fair, who would bother with an IC car apart from weirdos like us ?
The Tesla does an equivalent 80 mpg or so, better than any comparable diesel, with way better performance, when they do a Focus/Golf sized one that performs and has a range greater than people can realistically drive in a day and is comparable in cost, nobody will bother with IC cars, there will be a tipping point and IC cars will start dwindling, prices will drop, a bigger version of what happened with diesel vs petrol in the nineties.
I am 44 and assuming I have a fairly normal lifespan, I reckon I will see the demise of the IC for personal transport.
I fully understand the power has to come from somewhere, but it is still more efficient than an IC car, the IC engine is wonderful and we have grown to love it but it is so much of a refined bodge compared to the wonderous simplicity of an electric motor.
The writing is on the wall really, it is just really how long it takes, remember when the LCD panel tvs and monitors came in, when did you last see a CRT ? ok it wont replace every use case, but if that battery tech gets sorted sufficiently, and they arent doing that badly to be fair, who would bother with an IC car apart from weirdos like us ?
The Tesla does an equivalent 80 mpg or so, better than any comparable diesel, with way better performance, when they do a Focus/Golf sized one that performs and has a range greater than people can realistically drive in a day and is comparable in cost, nobody will bother with IC cars, there will be a tipping point and IC cars will start dwindling, prices will drop, a bigger version of what happened with diesel vs petrol in the nineties.
I am 44 and assuming I have a fairly normal lifespan, I reckon I will see the demise of the IC for personal transport.
Carnnoisseur said:
Amazing feat, but my main concern with all electric and some hybrids cars is, how do you tackle the expense of serious software failures outside of warranty? The costs will literally be colossal.
Why would the software fail out of warranty, surely if the car runs and was fit for purpose when new then the software will be fine, do you mean the hardware ?I know it is more complex but the software in 1980s cars with early EFi still generally works fine, I look after databases and old versions generally keep working, only developments and operating system patches necessitate change and in a closed system it isnt so critical, Tesla will still develop upgrades but after a while the car will just work and keep on going on what it has.
Will be interesting to see how long one would last if it manages to avoid accidents, the body shouldnt rust, the electric motor is way simpler and the gearbox is direct drive, I suppose the suspension takes a bit of a pounding due to the weight, the brakes get an easier time due to regeneration kicking in rather than the friction material all the time.
The batteries are the key element in longevity but if they can be easily replaced the rest of it should be nigh on indestructible
AMG Merc said:
They had one going up the hill at Brooklands yesterday. It was jaw-dropping amazing (electric even!) 
I timed his 2nd run at 5.9s and then the following at 5.2s. I'd say he was the fastest there.
That would be this one (it’s the sole UK demonstrator ..) I timed his 2nd run at 5.9s and then the following at 5.2s. I'd say he was the fastest there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHaI_bgWHDA
Slightly more classic machinery :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHUCWRvVza8
Also saw this clip again. Bloke in a Ferrari forgets to brake and goes 2-3ft in to the air. "One careful owner" the following week ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZj1bOFcQb4
Carparticus said:
Also saw this clip again. Bloke in a Ferrari forgets to brake and goes 2-3ft in to the air. "One careful owner" the following week ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZj1bOFcQb4
"Welcome to Hazzard County. You probably noticed there's something different here. Well, this is Hazzard County - they do things different here. "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZj1bOFcQb4
"It's too dangerous, you can't have a person driving a two-tonne death machine."
- Elon Musk
Tesla Model S P85D dry kerb weight = 2.24 tonnes
Eh?
I don't mind saying I have no interest in electric cars, but I'll be dead someday, and the homogenised, androgynous humans of the future will look back on my kind with contempt as they pick their way through the ruins of civilisation and kowtow to their robotic overlords.
- Elon Musk
Tesla Model S P85D dry kerb weight = 2.24 tonnes
Eh?
I don't mind saying I have no interest in electric cars, but I'll be dead someday, and the homogenised, androgynous humans of the future will look back on my kind with contempt as they pick their way through the ruins of civilisation and kowtow to their robotic overlords.
mr2j said:
"It's too dangerous, you can't have a person driving a two-tonne death machine."
- Elon Musk
Tesla Model S P85D dry kerb weight = 2.24 tonnes
Eh?
I don't mind saying I have no interest in electric cars, but I'll be dead someday, and the homogenised, androgynous humans of the future will look back on my kind with contempt as they pick their way through the ruins of civilisation and kowtow to their robotic overlords.
I thought you were going to break into a rendition of "Born to Run" by Bruce Springsteen there ?- Elon Musk
Tesla Model S P85D dry kerb weight = 2.24 tonnes
Eh?
I don't mind saying I have no interest in electric cars, but I'll be dead someday, and the homogenised, androgynous humans of the future will look back on my kind with contempt as they pick their way through the ruins of civilisation and kowtow to their robotic overlords.
hell of a song, lolTalksteer said:
As others have said the Tesla battery it's getting 5% larger each year.
On average batteries are getting around 10% "better" each year. Though that would be a product of power density and cost.
To put that into perspective that would involve batteries doubling in power density/cost every 8-14years.
I'd argue that a 300mile range (even if it's 200 miles in practice) is easily enough that it will be relatively rare that you'd travel further than that in a single day and you can just charge it slowly over night. Therefore bringing the cost down is probably more important.
If you're going a long way stopping every 200 miles to use the super charger for 30 minutes is hardly an impediment.
On your bike!On average batteries are getting around 10% "better" each year. Though that would be a product of power density and cost.
To put that into perspective that would involve batteries doubling in power density/cost every 8-14years.
I'd argue that a 300mile range (even if it's 200 miles in practice) is easily enough that it will be relatively rare that you'd travel further than that in a single day and you can just charge it slowly over night. Therefore bringing the cost down is probably more important.
If you're going a long way stopping every 200 miles to use the super charger for 30 minutes is hardly an impediment.
glazbagun said:
Awesome stuff, I really like they way Tesla are going
I really can't wait for Teslas to filter down to levels Golf/Focus buyers can afford. Electric power doesn't seem to have the large tradeoff between peak performance and peak economy that IC engines do.
Sadly I also think they'll be the beginning of the end for a lot of fun motoring as I can't see the govermnemt allowing every next prole an 11 second 1/4 mile. The money they lose from fuel revenue will end up being stacked onto insurance as tax.
Out of curiosity, I know that F=MA and thus greater acceleration requires greater force. But in a 0-60 sprint you're be accelerating for less time as you hit your desired speed sooner. So (assuming a block sitting on a frictionless surface) what is the relationship between acceleration and total energy consumption in a 0-60 sprint??
Does twice the force for half as long consume as much as half the force for twice as long?
<nerd hat> The energy consumed is the force multiplied by the distance travelled, not the time (well, actually the integral, but I'm not going to try and explain the difference). It might be easier to talk about power - power multiplied by time is equal to energy (also, it saves you the fI really can't wait for Teslas to filter down to levels Golf/Focus buyers can afford. Electric power doesn't seem to have the large tradeoff between peak performance and peak economy that IC engines do.
Sadly I also think they'll be the beginning of the end for a lot of fun motoring as I can't see the govermnemt allowing every next prole an 11 second 1/4 mile. The money they lose from fuel revenue will end up being stacked onto insurance as tax.
Out of curiosity, I know that F=MA and thus greater acceleration requires greater force. But in a 0-60 sprint you're be accelerating for less time as you hit your desired speed sooner. So (assuming a block sitting on a frictionless surface) what is the relationship between acceleration and total energy consumption in a 0-60 sprint??
Does twice the force for half as long consume as much as half the force for twice as long?
king around calculating the effect of wheel sizes and gearbox ratios you'd have to do with force).Either way, in a frictionless vacumn and ignoring engine efficiency, and with the mass of the car not changing, the energy required to get to 60 is constant, regardless of how quickly it's delivered. 100hp for 10 seconds = 200hp for 5 = a rocket engine for a couple of microseonds = a bloke hand-cranking for three minutes or so. Or in terms of force, 100 kN over 100 yards = 10 kN over 1000 yards.
If you ignore energy efficiency but add friction back in, the more powerful engine (mated to the right gearbox etc) would actually use less energy, since it produce more force, so would travel a shorter distance whilst accelerating, and each yard travelled is energy lost to friction. (But that would only apply if you didn't actually care about where the car ended up... which you usually do.). Quite relevant to rockets though.
</nerd>
J4CKO said:
Carnnoisseur said:
Amazing feat, but my main concern with all electric and some hybrids cars is, how do you tackle the expense of serious software failures outside of warranty? The costs will literally be colossal.
Why would the software fail out of warranty, surely if the car runs and was fit for purpose when new then the software will be fine, do you mean the hardware ?I know it is more complex but the software in 1980s cars with early EFi still generally works fine, I look after databases and old versions generally keep working, only developments and operating system patches necessitate change and in a closed system it isnt so critical, Tesla will still develop upgrades but after a while the car will just work and keep on going on what it has.
Will be interesting to see how long one would last if it manages to avoid accidents, the body shouldnt rust, the electric motor is way simpler and the gearbox is direct drive, I suppose the suspension takes a bit of a pounding due to the weight, the brakes get an easier time due to regeneration kicking in rather than the friction material all the time.
The batteries are the key element in longevity but if they can be easily replaced the rest of it should be nigh on indestructible
Also, what sort of maintenance network has Tesla got, as they obviously can't rely on servicing for revenue, so other than the steering, suspension and brakes there shouldn't be anything that really needs fixing. (He flinches when adding 'electrical system...)
Likewise the mot, which will have a lot less opportunity to fail a vehicle and return it back into the servicing system or for the mot station themselves to creatively create work for themselves.
I would be interested to hear from any owners on what the 'service' costs are, or are projected at
All that said, I saw one last weekend, a black Tesla S, parked next to a black Ford Mundano; from the rear they are, at a glance, quite similar, yet somehow quite classy in my opinion.
I won't sterotype by saying what sort of driver got into it by the way.....
paranoid airbag said:
<nerd hat>
If you ignore energy efficiency but add friction back in, the more powerful engine (mated to the right gearbox etc) would actually use less energy, since it produce more force, so would travel a shorter distance whilst accelerating, and each yard travelled is energy lost to friction. (But that would only apply if you didn't actually care about where the car ended up... which you usually do.). Quite relevant to rockets though.
</nerd>
So with an idealised Tesla in a perfect world with no air friction, doing a full blown dragstrip launch from the lights to 60 wouldn't harm your remaining battery range any more than had you trundled up to 60 whilst finding the track you wanted on your stereo?If you ignore energy efficiency but add friction back in, the more powerful engine (mated to the right gearbox etc) would actually use less energy, since it produce more force, so would travel a shorter distance whilst accelerating, and each yard travelled is energy lost to friction. (But that would only apply if you didn't actually care about where the car ended up... which you usually do.). Quite relevant to rockets though.
</nerd>
It's not just the speed. It's the refinement. I drove the 'base' one of these at Millbrook quite recently and immediately after got straight into a Merc' SL400 which, truthfully, felt like a horse and cart in comparison. Bloody fast as well, the Tesla. It's utterly brilliant irrespective of it's means of propulsion.
JD said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You drove for 9 hours without stopping?I can't go that long without needing the toilet, or drinking, or eating. Or all three.
I think this development is more exciting news, and don't think there's been any mainstream manufacturer with more exciting recent announcements. I really want a Tesla, I think the lack of vibrations are making exploding fuel in any ICE seem outdated. A Tesla and an Aston V12/Merc V8 or something with similar epic noise would be a pretty perfect 2-car garage. However, I have a day every other week with a 350-mile round trip. 175 miles to see a client, then spend a few hours there, then a 175 mile trip back. It's 3-3.5 hours on a motorway each way, without a charging point I can use there. So each journey is manageable without a stop, and I don't really want to lose 30 minutes early on my journey home.
So I could have a Tesla for every other journey, then use the diesel every other week for this longer range trip. But then I feel I'm paying a premium adopting this technology before it's completely suitable for my needs, so feel I need to wait for the range to get to 400 miles - but please don't make me wait too long!
(I think the roadster range might suffice, but doubt an Elise based car is that suitable for a round-trip motorway commute either)
Sheepshanks said:
Carparticus said:
The 'Ludicrous' Tesla does 0-60 in 2.8s,
That's the same time as Disney's Rock'n'Roller Coaster gets to 57MPH. Once was enough!Joeguard1990 said:
There is a ride at Alton Towers that is a lot quicker than the one at Disney called "Rita".
61.1mph in 2.5 seconds.
And if you think that's fast, go to Thorpe Park where they have a similar one called "Stealth"
0-80mph in 1.8 seconds!!!
I like stealth a lot - my missus less so61.1mph in 2.5 seconds.
And if you think that's fast, go to Thorpe Park where they have a similar one called "Stealth"
0-80mph in 1.8 seconds!!!
Then I was sick after swarm and she laughed at me
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