Loose chippings - Resurfacing
Discussion
I agree that dressing needs doing and I don't think any PHer in this thread will disagree either
What is the problem however is that the lazy ass way its just sprinkled on and then motorists suffer chips, tar spots, stones getting trapped behind discs and dust shield and the obvious skid risk
Why cant they roll it in with a big steam roller type machine then road sweep it?
Plus by getting the cars to do it, surely it just creates tram lines?
What is the problem however is that the lazy ass way its just sprinkled on and then motorists suffer chips, tar spots, stones getting trapped behind discs and dust shield and the obvious skid risk
Why cant they roll it in with a big steam roller type machine then road sweep it?
Plus by getting the cars to do it, surely it just creates tram lines?
Edited by lord trumpton on Wednesday 29th July 07:00
Bit late to prevent the uneducated PH rants but have a read through this:
http://www.highwaysmaintenance.com/SDtext.htm
http://www.highwaysmaintenance.com/SDtext.htm
This stuff boils my piss too! Had one of the roads to my house done last year and it was a good six months or so before you could actually drive on it without hearing stones t
tting your car all over the place.
They have recently done quite a few of the main roads in the area again but thankfully now seem to have a slightly better solution. They start with the usuall dressing (chippings) but this time it seems that a few days later they have gone over it again with tar which has stuck all the chippings down.
Still a bit of a nuisance and plenty of chippings still all over the place but thankfully now,if you've got a car you care about,you won't have to avoid that particular road for the next six months.
tting your car all over the place.They have recently done quite a few of the main roads in the area again but thankfully now seem to have a slightly better solution. They start with the usuall dressing (chippings) but this time it seems that a few days later they have gone over it again with tar which has stuck all the chippings down.
Still a bit of a nuisance and plenty of chippings still all over the place but thankfully now,if you've got a car you care about,you won't have to avoid that particular road for the next six months.
All that jazz said:
OpulentBob arriving in 3...2...1... to tell you you're all wrong.
Infamy... Not all wrong, just misunderstood. For it's intended purpose, it's effective - and it's a lot cheaper and quicker than resurfacing. The aim is to increase it's skid resistance, rather than it's structural integrity. In the vast majority of cases, the structure of the road is fine, and to plane off the top 40mm, and resurface, is a total waste of money as it's just the top 2 or 3mm that is problematic. If a road's been dressed, then it's going to have a lower speed limit for a while. The alternative would be to close it, and think of the criticisms that would be levelled then. "Ohmygod the road is closed who do I sue?!"
And yes, it's the tosser in the works transit flying through at 60mph without a care in the world that causes the stone chips. That's why we put up advisory speed limits.
I know it's frustrating, but just because the road is there, and has a 60mph limit normally, doesn't mean you should be able to do 60mph through it at all times - there are times of maintenance when the performance will be restricted. Just like computer servers - there are times when you (I assume most of you are in IT?) will have to reduce capacity, power down, perform upgrades etc - and normal service will not be possible.
And regarding potholes - every council (and the HA/Highways England/whatever they are called now) has a pothole reporting page. Use it! (The LA highways engineers can't be expected to know the pothole state of every road at all times...)
We do our best...
OpulentBob said:
Infamy... Not all wrong, just misunderstood. For it's intended purpose, it's effective - and it's a lot cheaper and quicker than resurfacing. The aim is to increase it's skid resistance, rather than it's structural integrity. In the vast majority of cases, the structure of the road is fine, and to plane off the top 40mm, and resurface, is a total waste of money as it's just the top 2 or 3mm that is problematic. If a road's been dressed, then it's going to have a lower speed limit for a while. The alternative would be to close it, and think of the criticisms that would be levelled then. "Ohmygod the road is closed who do I sue?!"
And yes, it's the tosser in the works transit flying through at 60mph without a care in the world that causes the stone chips. That's why we put up advisory speed limits.
I know it's frustrating, but just because the road is there, and has a 60mph limit normally, doesn't mean you should be able to do 60mph through it at all times - there are times of maintenance when the performance will be restricted. Just like computer servers - there are times when you (I assume most of you are in IT?) will have to reduce capacity, power down, perform upgrades etc - and normal service will not be possible.
And regarding potholes - every council (and the HA/Highways England/whatever they are called now) has a pothole reporting page. Use it! (The LA highways engineers can't be expected to know the pothole state of every road at all times...)
We do our best...
It would help if holes that already exist are filled in prior to chippings being laid over them, as you still have a dip in the road surface.
Along with being a motorist, I also cycle a lot, and chippings are a nightmare! For weeks afterwards I have to double my distance from the kerb due to the excess that gets flung to the kerb, putting me into the traffic flow. Staying near the kerb would be like riding on marbles, and the thought of coming off onto what is now a very rough surface doesn't bear thinking about. It hurts falling onto tarmac, but chippings just tear you to shreds. To cap it all, it's also a very uncomfortable surface to cycle on due to the constant buzz of the rough surface. Don't care how much money it saves, it's a disaster all round for me.
mr pg said:
OpulentBob said:
Infamy... Not all wrong, just misunderstood. For it's intended purpose, it's effective - and it's a lot cheaper and quicker than resurfacing. The aim is to increase it's skid resistance, rather than it's structural integrity. In the vast majority of cases, the structure of the road is fine, and to plane off the top 40mm, and resurface, is a total waste of money as it's just the top 2 or 3mm that is problematic. If a road's been dressed, then it's going to have a lower speed limit for a while. The alternative would be to close it, and think of the criticisms that would be levelled then. "Ohmygod the road is closed who do I sue?!"
And yes, it's the tosser in the works transit flying through at 60mph without a care in the world that causes the stone chips. That's why we put up advisory speed limits.
I know it's frustrating, but just because the road is there, and has a 60mph limit normally, doesn't mean you should be able to do 60mph through it at all times - there are times of maintenance when the performance will be restricted. Just like computer servers - there are times when you (I assume most of you are in IT?) will have to reduce capacity, power down, perform upgrades etc - and normal service will not be possible.
And regarding potholes - every council (and the HA/Highways England/whatever they are called now) has a pothole reporting page. Use it! (The LA highways engineers can't be expected to know the pothole state of every road at all times...)
We do our best...
It would help if holes that already exist are filled in prior to chippings being laid over them, as you still have a dip in the road surface.
Along with being a motorist, I also cycle a lot, and chippings are a nightmare! For weeks afterwards I have to double my distance from the kerb due to the excess that gets flung to the kerb, putting me into the traffic flow. Staying near the kerb would be like riding on marbles, and the thought of coming off onto what is now a very rough surface doesn't bear thinking about. It hurts falling onto tarmac, but chippings just tear you to shreds. To cap it all, it's also a very uncomfortable surface to cycle on due to the constant buzz of the rough surface. Don't care how much money it saves, it's a disaster all round for me.
Anyway, that's my last one on this topic. I don't think many, if any, of you will take anything on board, no matter how much reason and evidence is put in front of you.
Type R Tom had it right, many posts previously.
I'll just carry on as I am, walking along, singing my song, earning my keep...
Type R Tom had it right, many posts previously.
I'll just carry on as I am, walking along, singing my song, earning my keep...
Fact is, if it was done properly with a little care and attention unlike the quality of workmanship by some of the road wombles that work for Lincs Highways, then this particular stretch would indeed benefit from dressing. Only problem is, this stretch of the A17 has been dressed and swept, and swept, and swept and been coned and swept for almost 2 weeks now and the end result is there are patches of the old surface showing through already. And still the bloody stones rattle up your wheel arches. At one stage there was a foot wide ridge at the side of each carriageway like a rumble strip. It's just a bloody mess.
Whilst it may be cheap and quick they have, as normal, given no thought to the danger these pose to motorcyclists and cyclists. It is fking lethal. It is not fun ridding at 10mph with your feet out and some knob in a white van or Audi s-line up your arse, or overtaking you and spaying you with stones. The dressing itself is not a massive issue, but it needs a way to get it usable much faster. Can it not be rollered in rather than leaving it for cars?
It's especially bad when the council decide to do all the roads in the area in one go, meaning that in about two weeks time I will have no choice but to cycle through that st to get to work.
king lethal. It is not fun ridding at 10mph with your feet out and some knob in a white van or Audi s-line up your arse, or overtaking you and spaying you with stones. The dressing itself is not a massive issue, but it needs a way to get it usable much faster. Can it not be rollered in rather than leaving it for cars?It's especially bad when the council decide to do all the roads in the area in one go, meaning that in about two weeks time I will have no choice but to cycle through that s
t to get to work.Edited by SteveSteveson on Wednesday 29th July 08:22
OpulentBob said:
Infamy... Not all wrong, just misunderstood. For it's intended purpose, it's effective - and it's a lot cheaper and quicker than resurfacing. The aim is to increase it's skid resistance, rather than it's structural integrity. In the vast majority of cases, the structure of the road is fine, and to plane off the top 40mm, and resurface, is a total waste of money as it's just the top 2 or 3mm that is problematic. If a road's been dressed, then it's going to have a lower speed limit for a while. The alternative would be to close it, and think of the criticisms that would be levelled then. "Ohmygod the road is closed who do I sue?!"
And yes, it's the tosser in the works transit flying through at 60mph without a care in the world that causes the stone chips. That's why we put up advisory speed limits.
I know it's frustrating, but just because the road is there, and has a 60mph limit normally, doesn't mean you should be able to do 60mph through it at all times - there are times of maintenance when the performance will be restricted. Just like computer servers - there are times when you (I assume most of you are in IT?) will have to reduce capacity, power down, perform upgrades etc - and normal service will not be possible.
And regarding potholes - every council (and the HA/Highways England/whatever they are called now) has a pothole reporting page. Use it! (The LA highways engineers can't be expected to know the pothole state of every road at all times...)
We do our best...
Now in this new commission, 'surface dressing' is a taboo term. Instead we're promoting 'Simple Surfacing Schemes' where we can actually do full 40/45mm resurfacing schemes with greatly reduced testing requirements, supporting documentation etc if we can provide evidence that the defects are only in the wearing course.
This is part of the response to Cameron's '80% of the strategic network resurfaced' agenda. We've been rushing our balls of to get the schemes put together. Of course TM costs are still the same, but we're allowed to 'fast track' a lot of the design work to help progress the schemes. I've designed around 20km in the past year and half of that has been constructed already.
However, it's a different story for local authority roads and surface dressing will remain popular with them for years I think. RMS are the local contractor in our area and they're making a fortune from the councils.
I hate the stuff. I know it serves a purpose and is cost effective - doesn't make it any more pleasant.
ETA - We did specify any pot holes or similar surface defects to be hand-patched by the contractor before the dressing was applied, however a lot of the time, they weren't. I've actually watched a contractor dressing an LA road with visible pot holes that had been completely ignored. Not even Instarmac'd.
Edited by smithyithy on Wednesday 29th July 08:20
munchintoz said:
Fact is, if it was done properly with a little care and attention unlike the quality of workmanship by some of the road wombles that work for Lincs Highways, then this particular stretch would indeed benefit from dressing. Only problem is, this stretch of the A17 has been dressed and swept, and swept, and swept and been coned and swept for almost 2 weeks now and the end result is there are patches of the old surface showing through already. And still the bloody stones rattle up your wheel arches. At one stage there was a foot wide ridge at the side of each carriageway like a rumble strip. It's just a bloody mess.
Is this the Sleaford to Newark stretch OP?I drive this every day.
I thought drivers have been pretty sensible on the whole during the works.
The actual dressing was done over night to reduce delays.
Speeds were kept low and it was only few a few miles so no real delay in journey time and it has been swept and lined now so all good :-)
Also there was a section of resurfacing done as part of the works otherwise it would have been easily less than a week for the dressing on its own.
smithyithy said:
OpulentBob said:
Infamy... Not all wrong, just misunderstood. For it's intended purpose, it's effective - and it's a lot cheaper and quicker than resurfacing. The aim is to increase it's skid resistance, rather than it's structural integrity. In the vast majority of cases, the structure of the road is fine, and to plane off the top 40mm, and resurface, is a total waste of money as it's just the top 2 or 3mm that is problematic. If a road's been dressed, then it's going to have a lower speed limit for a while. The alternative would be to close it, and think of the criticisms that would be levelled then. "Ohmygod the road is closed who do I sue?!"
And yes, it's the tosser in the works transit flying through at 60mph without a care in the world that causes the stone chips. That's why we put up advisory speed limits.
I know it's frustrating, but just because the road is there, and has a 60mph limit normally, doesn't mean you should be able to do 60mph through it at all times - there are times of maintenance when the performance will be restricted. Just like computer servers - there are times when you (I assume most of you are in IT?) will have to reduce capacity, power down, perform upgrades etc - and normal service will not be possible.
And regarding potholes - every council (and the HA/Highways England/whatever they are called now) has a pothole reporting page. Use it! (The LA highways engineers can't be expected to know the pothole state of every road at all times...)
We do our best...
Now in this new commission, 'surface dressing' is a taboo term. Instead we're promoting 'Simple Surfacing Schemes' where we can actually do full 40/45mm resurfacing schemes with greatly reduced testing requirements, supporting documentation etc if we can provide evidence that the defects are only in the wearing course.
This is part of the response to Cameron's '80% of the strategic network resurfaced' agenda. We've been rushing our balls of to get the schemes put together. Of course TM costs are still the same, but we're allowed to 'fast track' a lot of the design work to help progress the schemes. I've designed around 20km in the past year and half of that has been constructed already.
However, it's a different story for local authority roads and surface dressing will remain popular with them for years I think. RMS are the local contractor in our area and they're making a fortune from the councils.
I hate the stuff. I know it serves a purpose and is cost effective - doesn't make it any more pleasant.
ETA - We did specify any pot holes or similar surface defects to be hand-patched by the contractor before the dressing was applied, however a lot of the time, they weren't. I've actually watched a contractor dressing an LA road with visible pot holes that had been completely ignored. Not even Instarmac'd.
Edited by smithyithy on Wednesday 29th July 08:20
And yeah I never said I liked the stuff, but it does a job...
GreatGranny said:
Is this the Sleaford to Newark stretch OP?
I drive this every day.
I thought drivers have been pretty sensible on the whole during the works.
The actual dressing was done over night to reduce delays.
Speeds were kept low and it was only few a few miles so no real delay in journey time and it has been swept and lined now so all good :-)
Also there was a section of resurfacing done as part of the works otherwise it would have been easily less than a week for the dressing on its own.
This stretch is from Holbeach to Long Sutton. 'Work' has been done overnight ( Darjeeling is their fave I understand ). I stand corrected on the timeline, they started on July 18th apparently. The dates on the electronic sign have changed many times.I drive this every day.
I thought drivers have been pretty sensible on the whole during the works.
The actual dressing was done over night to reduce delays.
Speeds were kept low and it was only few a few miles so no real delay in journey time and it has been swept and lined now so all good :-)
Also there was a section of resurfacing done as part of the works otherwise it would have been easily less than a week for the dressing on its own.
SteveSteveson said:
they have, as normal, given no thought to the danger these pose to motorcyclists and cyclists
Bingo - there's the magic quote. It appears no-one in road departments actually cycles, or stops to fully think through what cycling entails. Sure, you get the odd bit of cycle lane or whatever, but it appears that's done to tick a box - it's not actually done to make cycling easier/better/safer.I've had to stop cycling on some roads in my area, it's just too dangerous with these damn chippings everywhere
mon the fish said:
SteveSteveson said:
they have, as normal, given no thought to the danger these pose to motorcyclists and cyclists
Bingo - there's the magic quote. It appears no-one in road departments actually cycles, or stops to fully think through what cycling entails. Sure, you get the odd bit of cycle lane or whatever, but it appears that's done to tick a box - it's not actually done to make cycling easier/better/safer.I've had to stop cycling on some roads in my area, it's just too dangerous with these damn chippings everywhere
What the 'tards who put this stuff down don't realise is that the chippings build up in the refuge and don't get pushed in. It's like a fking motocross route on a bicycle 
I'm now on a one man crusade to repair the A16 whenever I drive down it
mon the fish said:
SteveSteveson said:
they have, as normal, given no thought to the danger these pose to motorcyclists and cyclists
Bingo - there's the magic quote. It appears no-one in road departments actually cycles, or stops to fully think through what cycling entails. Sure, you get the odd bit of cycle lane or whatever, but it appears that's done to tick a box - it's not actually done to make cycling easier/better/safer.I've had to stop cycling on some roads in my area, it's just too dangerous with these damn chippings everywhere
The plan is starting to come to fruition.
Well, if you won't listen to anything sensible that's said, then I may as well have some fun.
smithyithy said:
Now in this new commission, 'surface dressing' is a taboo term. Instead we're promoting 'Simple Surfacing Schemes' where we can actually do full 40/45mm resurfacing schemes with greatly reduced testing requirements, supporting documentation etc if we can provide evidence that the defects are only in the wearing course.
This is part of the response to Cameron's '80% of the strategic network resurfaced' agenda. We've been rushing our balls of to get the schemes put together. Of course TM costs are still the same, but we're allowed to 'fast track' a lot of the design work to help progress the schemes. I've designed around 20km in the past year and half of that has been constructed already.
If area 9 covers the A1M between the top of the M1 at Aberford and Bramham please expedite the work ASAP. The surface of the moon would actually be smoother than it is currently and their 3-month rota of patching up some of the worst bits is a complete waste of time. Balfour Beatty should've been taken to court many times over for the unbelievably sThis is part of the response to Cameron's '80% of the strategic network resurfaced' agenda. We've been rushing our balls of to get the schemes put together. Of course TM costs are still the same, but we're allowed to 'fast track' a lot of the design work to help progress the schemes. I've designed around 20km in the past year and half of that has been constructed already.
tty job they did when they built it. 
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff