Road rage; is it getting worse?

Road rage; is it getting worse?

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9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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Yes, definitely more RR but then people are more stressed, more self-obsessed and much angrier. A significant number see a journey as a competition and the roads are crap - a pretty heady cocktail. My own pet theory is that it's massively connected to self-esteem and in my non-scientific head this is born out by never having seen an attractive or good looking rager. They are always ugly, nondescript, overweight or generally pretty unpleasant or insignificant to look at. I'm sure they know that and the roads provide a place to get some victories in their life.

As for the learner scenario I find multiple instructors find a quiet residential area they like - every town seems to have one - and it must get on locals' nerves to be constantly encountering glacial three point turns, stalling at junctions, etc. I also don't get why you would take an obvious poor driver out at the busiest times on the busiest stretches of road. That seems to happen a bit too often.

Mandalore

4,165 posts

112 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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Road Rage:

Road rage incidents start with one person doing something illegal/bad/anti-social/immoral, by mistake (and sometimes on purpose) and then not apologising for it to the people they have inconvenience/nearly killed or crashed into/caused to swerve or react defensively.

If people just held up their and and said 'sorry' instead of 'fk you' then we wouldn't have 90% of the issues we have. People that do, probably lead rage-free lives.


Too often I see stories on social media about people being a 'victim of random road rage' but you never get told if it were they, or the other party that started the whole stupid incident.

Road rage is never random.






smithyithy

7,192 posts

117 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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I don't what's going on with this country at times..

I mean people complain about the economy and state of affairs, and how they're all hard done by and how bad living here is (really..?) but relatively speaking compared to a lot of the world we have it pretty damn good.

Yet everyone seems so angry, selfish and nasty all the time.

And the people clearly aren't too hard done by, driving around in nearly new £30k cars, it's not as if they're on the bread line. But it's all just "fk you, get out of my way, I'm more important, I have right of way, did you just indicate near me? I'll fking stab you!"

I wish people would just calm down and be a bit more friendly..

Timbola

1,956 posts

139 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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Mandalore said:
Road Rage:

Road rage incidents start with one person doing something illegal/bad/anti-social/immoral, by mistake (and sometimes on purpose) and then not apologising for it to the people they have inconvenience/nearly killed or crashed into/caused to swerve or react defensively.

If people just held up their and and said 'sorry' instead of 'fk you' then we wouldn't have 90% of the issues we have. People that do, probably lead rage-free lives.

Too often I see stories on social media about people being a 'victim of random road rage' but you never get told if it were they, or the other party that started the whole stupid incident.

Road rage is never random.
yes

Agree totally.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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spaximus said:
I read a book once where a young chap picked up a Japanese business man. He tore down the roads and used back streets to deliver the man to his hotel. "we saved 10 minutes doing that" he proudly said. "what shall we now do with those minutes then" said the Japanese man.
Great quote/meaning/something in that.

smithyithy

7,192 posts

117 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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OpulentBob said:
spaximus said:
I read a book once where a young chap picked up a Japanese business man. He tore down the roads and used back streets to deliver the man to his hotel. "we saved 10 minutes doing that" he proudly said. "what shall we now do with those minutes then" said the Japanese man.
Great quote/meaning/something in that.
Reminded me of Initial D..


Boydie88

3,283 posts

148 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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Ruffy94 said:
I think the public as a group seem to be becoming more arrogant, unpleasant, rude and selfish as time progresses. They all seem to be developing this strange false sense of entitlement.
I'd go with this. Whether it's me getting older (only mid 20s mind!) or society is turning in to a bunch of dheads so much so I have very little empathy for anyone I don't know any more.

I love driving but do hate the idea of driving anywhere when it's busy as the s really make themselves known then, when there is a chance to save 2 seconds, they will attempt it regardless of risk.

OpulentBob said:
spaximus said:
I read a book once where a young chap picked up a Japanese business man. He tore down the roads and used back streets to deliver the man to his hotel. "we saved 10 minutes doing that" he proudly said. "what shall we now do with those minutes then" said the Japanese man.
Great quote/meaning/something in that.
Yep. Adopting that attitude has entirely changed my driving for the better and I'd go as far as saying outlook on life - what is the rush?! Life is much more enjoyable when you're not in a rush and you tend to be less of a , too.

Edited by Boydie88 on Thursday 23 July 09:27

gsxr renegade

126 posts

114 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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Kentish said:
As many regulars may know; I'm a driving instructor.
I have to be fairly skilled in teaching and communicating clearly and sometimes quickly.
I don't let pupils hold people up any more than is absolutely necessary and if needed, I step in and take the control from the passenger seat with the dual controls & steering.

But it's becoming a daily occurrence that Joe Public will tailgate, overtake (when pupils are at the maximum speed limit); overtake just as we are turning right; blast the horn if we take a fraction of a second longer than they do to move off.

I had a van driver pull into a space today that my pupil was mid way through reverse parallel parking into then the driver had a go at me asking what the F*** we were doing.

Well, we had reverse lights on and were at an angle just entering a parking space. It's a tough one to recognise but yes we were reverse parallel parking mate!

We didn't just stop in front of him; we had actually passed him earlier where he was parked half on the pavement. It was several minutes later that he arrived behind us.

Another van driver today stopped to let us out of a side road (nice gesture) but my pupil who was on her 2nd lesson isn't super fast just yet at moving off (that's why we were on quiet back-roads).

He then gets irate; screeching his tyres and redlining his van effing and blinding with a very angry face.

I've also had the comment "why do you have to bring your learners out on public roads"

Uhhm, so where would be best to teach them to get used to junctions, roundabouts, traffic lights, crossings, level crossing, traffic and other road users. Perhaps the private roads around the mansion that I and all other driving instructors are privileged to own?

The toughest part of the job is dealing with these morons & trying to keep the pupil and other mambers of the public safe as a result of their stupid actions, all whilst trying to teach the pupil to drive with good observations, accuracy and control and respect for all other road users.


Learning takes some time; not everyone is a naturally gifted driver and achieves perfection in the first hour of training having never driven before.

Even one of my naturally gifted pupils (virtually test ready after just 8 lessons having never driven before) got blasted once because she gave way to another driver coming from our right at a roundabout. The car was coming at speed, not signalling and straddling both lanes. If we'd gone we'd have been hit!

Are people getting worse and more angry behind the wheel?

And why the hell would anyone with any sense expect a learner driver to do everything text book, they certainly don't & they are FLH's!
These people are just knobheads. Getting road rage in the first place is a bit of a silly thing to do, but to start ranting and raving and intimidating learners is just knobbery of the highest order.

It can be nerve wracking at the best of times, the last thing you need is some peen-arse making it worse by acting like a child.

Everyone was a learner at one point, just cut them some slack and explain to your pit crew at work why you were 11 seconds late on this morning's lap of the commute.

JockySteer

1,407 posts

115 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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All that jazz said:
I regularly come up against learners dawdling along a busy 30mph road at 15-20 mph with the driver looking petrified.
'Come up against' - not the best mind set to have when you come across a learner. God forbid it could be their first lesson and they should hold you up.

daddy cool

3,996 posts

228 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
spaximus said:
I read a book once where a young chap picked up a Japanese business man. He tore down the roads and used back streets to deliver the man to his hotel. "we saved 10 minutes doing that" he proudly said. "what shall we now do with those minutes then" said the Japanese man.
Curse the Japanese, and their ability to come up with something succinct, wise & philosophical at the drop of a hat.

I would have just impotently said "yes, t-t-thanks, heres the fare" while secretly vowing to not use that company again.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
Kentish said:
As many regulars may know; I'm a driving instructor...

I've also had the comment "why do you have to bring your learners out on public roads"

Uhhm, so where would be best to teach them to get used to junctions, roundabouts, traffic lights, crossings, level crossing, traffic and other road users.
As already pointed out, everyone was a learner at one point. It's clear your demanding job is made more difficult by impatient, rude and aggressive road users. Perhaps, looking hard for a positive flipside, learners get to see you keeping your cool. They may pick up on this and it would help them later on if they did.

Just one thought, which is not intended to take anything away from what you posted. Back in the day when I was 16 there was a local driving school that offered lessons for 16 year-olds on a disused airfield, for a very reasonable rate.

Pupils were driven there and driven back, obviously, but on the airfield the pupil was driving, road layouts were marked up, and it allowed the basics to be mastered before venturing out onto the public road to learn those things you mentioned that can only be learnt on a public road. It gave pupils a level of confidence via basic car control that made life easier for them and other road users once we/they were let loose, so to speak.

Does this kind of thing not happen these days? I would think it does, but I haven't seen it advertised or discussed recently.

andy-xr

13,204 posts

203 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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You know that 2 second thing, you form an opinion of someone within 2 seconds based on a look over them? I think that's what happens when someone comes across a learner vehicle, and immediately the thought process is 'fking learner, fk, I'm going to be stuck behind these tts for fking miles' and it doesnt matter how good or bad the driving is, it's the badged up car and warnings on the back telling them to keep clear that makes people jumpy

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
daddy cool said:
spaximus said:
I read a book once where a young chap picked up a Japanese business man. He tore down the roads and used back streets to deliver the man to his hotel. "we saved 10 minutes doing that" he proudly said. "what shall we now do with those minutes then" said the Japanese man.
Curse the Japanese, and their ability to come up with something succinct, wise & philosophical at the drop of a hat.

I would have just impotently said "yes, t-t-thanks, heres the fare" while secretly vowing to not use that company again.
Depending on the kind of book, and the reason the lad picked up the older chap, you never know what those next ten minutes were spent doing - those kinky Japs! wink

jonny996

2,603 posts

216 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
9mm said:
My own pet theory is that it's massively connected to self-esteem and in my non-scientific head this is born out by never having seen an attractive or good looking rager. They are always ugly, nondescript, overweight or generally pretty unpleasant or insignificant to look at. I'm sure they know that and the roads provide a place to get some victories in their life.
I agree with this theory

ukwill

8,871 posts

206 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEXvF9OC-dg

It's 50 years old...

Watchman

6,391 posts

244 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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k-ink said:
The root cause to all issues in life is vast world overpopulation
This (taken in isolation from the rest of the post)..!!

Couple of other notes:

1. My wife had to achieve some basic car control at an area designed for learners before she was allowed onto the public roads - this was in Poland in the early 1990s. Seems to be a good idea to me. Whilst there's no substitute for on-road experience to learn the road system and laws, taking completely fresh drivers out on busy roads can be both intimidating for them and can, sadly, induce apoplexy in those for whom a lost 20 seconds is unacceptable.


2. I found my switch to an automatic took me slightly further away from the driving experience, to the point where I don't feel quite so "invested" in it any more, and don't get angry behind the wheel. I still drive quickly but I view everyone else as you would in a SEGA driving game - an inevitability of your just being there. They will pull out on you, hold you up, and generally behave less than perfectly. But you don't get upset about other cars in video games - you just accept it as a part of the experience and deal with it.

laters

324 posts

113 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
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In relation to the way people are driving I am seeing a couple of things that are happening more and more.

A lot of the streets around where I live have been made into 20mph. A few of them justifiably but the majority its just causing bottlenecks and more poor traffic flow from the knock on effects. Some drivers stick to the 20mph limit, some just drive at 30 mph as they always had but the ones the 20mph zone were aimed at to slow down are still doing 40mph+. If someone dares to pull into their path buy not realising they were speeding that's where a lot of the aggression and shouting swearing starts.

I witness it a few times a day at least and have had drivers close up behind me, when I haven't joined the road but just been driving down the road, to the point where the front of their car disappears from mirror view whilst shouting, swearing, beeping and flashing lights. I have even had them follow me home and sit outside my driveway with the windows down shouting a screaming.
Most of the time when I turn and head toward the gates, the close my driveway gates, most drive off for some reason but some are still wanting to argue why I was driving at 20mph & holding them up.

Same with the school run, they have to park as close to the school gates as possible, even if that means parking fully on the pavement blocking it, so their child doesn't have to walk more than a few steps. Then the same mothers drive like they are possessed and tailgate, push in and do anything they can to get home 2 seconds earlier. At one of the main roundabout junctions there are always cues of traffic now, there never used to be but I wont go into that now, and the number of people who will push in and try to drive round you and push in shouting and screaming as they go.

As for drivers attitudes to learners! My other half is currently learning to drive. I got her a micra to learn in and the L plates seem to be a sign to other drivers that its fine to intimidate and drive in a way you would think they were never learners. WHen I have had to drive her car the number of drivers that use the my car is bigger than your car so move is also unreal. Saying that Iam getting that now with my current car (Honda CRV) but not so much with my last car (1998 c class).

Don't even get me started on the sounding of horns. If you dare sound your horn at another driver its almost as if you have just committed the greatest crime possible toward them and instantly starts a surprising amount of drivers into a aggressive road rage style of episode.


johnS2000

458 posts

171 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
I haven't read all posts but I too used to be a driving instructor albeit some years ago now as I'm now retired and can sympathise wit the OP.

I do drive an S2000 mostly now and don't really bother with the minor points of driving strictly to the highway code and can push the limits of "making progress" to the extreme shall we say .

However , my wife , due to the mileage she does in the course of her work ,has a diesel ,and ,When I drive it ,I do like to drive it as if I'm on a test !!

I.E. properly !

Not speeding (and I mean on the in car speedo so less than GPS speed ie properly ) Taking left and right turn's at a very appropriate speed ,stopping at amber lights ,negotiating roundabouts in the proper lane and using the proper signals etc etc really really winds people up !!!

And the worse part ???

I absolutely love it .

PanzerCommander

5,026 posts

217 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
It is getting worse in general not just with learners.

turbobloke said:
As already pointed out, everyone was a learner at one point. It's clear your demanding job is made more difficult by impatient, rude and aggressive road users. Perhaps, looking hard for a positive flipside, learners get to see you keeping your cool. They may pick up on this and it would help them later on if they did.

Just one thought, which is not intended to take anything away from what you posted. Back in the day when I was 16 there was a local driving school that offered lessons for 16 year-olds on a disused airfield, for a very reasonable rate.

Pupils were driven there and driven back, obviously, but on the airfield the pupil was driving, road layouts were marked up, and it allowed the basics to be mastered before venturing out onto the public road to learn those things you mentioned that can only be learnt on a public road. It gave pupils a level of confidence via basic car control that made life easier for them and other road users once we/they were let loose, so to speak.

Does this kind of thing not happen these days? I would think it does, but I haven't seen it advertised or discussed recently.
Probably not, it sounds like something the local green pen using NIMBYs would delight in complaining about and get shut down.

It seems perfectly sensible to me as does skid pan training being part of the course though BRAKE would probably complain that you are teaching people to drift a car on the streets rather than save themselves should a problem occur.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Thursday 23rd July 2015
quotequote all
spaximus said:
I read a book once where a young chap picked up a Japanese business man. He tore down the roads and used back streets to deliver the man to his hotel. "we saved 10 minutes doing that" he proudly said. "what shall we now do with those minutes then" said the Japanese man.
Have a coffee and read an email or talk to someone, give CPR to a dying stranger, take an amazing photograph, be in time to see your child born, kiss a beautiful woman, hold someone you love, read a thought provoking forum post.