2 young guys killed in Austrian Alps racing. Came off a clif

[Super Slo Mo]

That was my thought too. However, having clipped a kerb or two myself in the past, it's always been the case that the steering has been snatched towards whichever side of the car the kerb was on.
Even at 30 mph I once found myself with half the car across a verge before I could correct it, so it might be simply that he ran wide, clipped the kerb, the wheel snatched to the right and he couldn't catch it in time.

[smokeey]

Does anybody know, is the drop off the side a sheer drop or more like a very steep slope ? Has the car dropped off and fell to the bottom or was it more of a roll down the side.

I know nobody was there but I haven't read any of the media stories on it where it might of mentioned or shown it.

[delta0]

smokeey said:

I've tried getting a jist of the scale from other photos online and it seems they've gone through at an angle, which would make sense. At that point in the corner they've already started turning in so wouldn't go through head on, they just appeared to of run out of road.

Poor lads. Completely their own doing (probably) but still can't help feel sorry for them.

Hard cornering and touching the white line or the gravelly? area at the side could have happened too.

At 8:10 you can see people looking down and towards the left which does support them not going straight off the corner.

Edited by delta0 on Tuesday 28th July 21:09

[Super Slo Mo]

I thought I read it dropped about 60 metres (or close to 200 feet) before the initial impact, but might have misunderstood. It's a little morbid to think about it, but that's 2-3 seconds in the air based on my back of fag packet calculation without using proper equations .

[anonymous-user]

Although only speculation again.

At 7.40 there a silver car facing down hill in the lay-by of the snake section.

They could have met this car whilst cutting the corner at speed and lost it ?

[KTF]

smokeey said:

Does anybody know, is the drop off the side a sheer drop or more like a very steep slope ? Has the car dropped off and fell to the bottom or was it more of a roll down the side.

What difference would that detail make? The end result would be the same.

The plot posted earlier suggests it's a very steep slope.

[bockaaarck]

When things like this happen. I like to try and understand (as much as one can, with limited information) what's happened and why. Like most of us here, I have a passion for driving, it's something I love. Being able get a picture of what may / has happened here, I feel, may help make me a safer more considered driver. I like to think I am that anyway, but there is certainly always room for improvement. I certainly still make mistakes or occasionally get caught out, but I learn from it.

The webcam footage from 9:50am to 10:00am on Friday 24th tells a story. It appears that by 10am, the Austrian emergency / recovery / investigation services have had time to assess the accident. As has been previously mentioned earlier in this thread. At 10am there are orange lines marked on the road toward the break in the barrier. I am assuming that the services attending may have spent time investigating the scene and be able to see tyre / skid patterns that we can't detect from the webcam view. They've marked these in orange in order to identify the path of the vehicle.

From the path of those marks it would seem to indicate there was an attempt to make the corner. But that due to some factor (speed, mechanical failure, avoidance of other traffic, road conditions etc). There was not a chance for recovery.

Again, as has been indicated many times on this thread. Just a very sad and unfortunate accident leading to the death of two young men who were very clearly passionate about cars and driving.

[justanother5tar]

smokeey said:

Looking at the pic below they went off at the 3rd fence post (including the one directly next to concrete post thing). That's right at the exit of the corner



This video give a good view of / through the corner, note where the 3rd post is: https://youtu.be/8qBmVzuGyqs?t=22m21s

Now note where the BMW leaves the road in this clip : https://youtu.be/az_Vlgy5dbM?t=38s

The SEAT looks to of left the road slightly sooner than the BMW did (the BMW was pretty much out of the corner when he went off, the SEAT still on the exit of the corner) but that would make sense as the BMW was in the inside lane of the bend so had the extra lane to cross before going over the edge.

Well thats my theory anyway.

ETA : so my point is, I think they did exactly what the BMW did and just overcooked it and understeered off

I think that seems very likely.

[delta0]

Ghibli said:

Although only speculation again.

At 7.40 there a silver car facing down hill in the lay-by of the snake section.

They could have met this car whilst cutting the corner at speed and lost it ?

That could change things for the corner. Not being able to cut across the corner because a car is there and excess speed could have resulted in them coming off the road.

[DonkeyApple]

KTF said:

smokeey said:

How fast does a Seat Leon have to be going before it just takes off then ?

Very.

Unless on a conveyor belt.

[smokeey]

DonkeyApple said:

Unless on a conveyor belt.

Well now seems like a good time to ask, would the plane take off?

I'm saying no, but it seems to obvious, so maybe it would??

[B'stard Child]

smokeey said:

DonkeyApple said:

Unless on a conveyor belt.

Well now seems like a good time to ask, would the plane take off?

I'm saying no, but it seems to obvious, so maybe it would??

I think it's all been done before

[DonkeyApple]

smokeey said:

DonkeyApple said:

Unless on a conveyor belt.

Well now seems like a good time to ask, would the plane take off?

I'm saying no, but it seems to obvious, so maybe it would??

Of all the seats in the back are lowered then I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.

[smokeey]

DonkeyApple said:

Of all the seats in the back are lowered then I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.

And the glovebox drink trays dropped?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

plenty said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Pretty much all of my friends and aquaintances who aren't into cars would describe two young men driving fast in a souped up car "racing" and will have done for years. And that's before you actually take into account that they were driving with another car at some point.

Why do forum threads always descend into some bunch of pricks segueing about the correct definition of a word or phrase? Truly bizarre behaviour.

You generally come across like a sensible chap so this is a surprising outburst.

Semantics matter. If they were "racing" then they were doing something irresponsible, unconscionable, possibly illegal, which mitigates the sadness of their sudden deaths and makes us moderate our sympathies.

If you want to classify all fast driving on the road as "racing" then you might as well say that all fast driving on the road is irresponsible and unconscionable.

Which is, of course, what many people do think. Most of us know that we are fighting a losing battle against the popular opinion that speed is socially unacceptable and morally repugnant. That does not mean the opinion is right, nor that ignorance and stupidity should go unchallenged.

Thanks for giving me the benifit of the doubt.

The reason I've felt it necessary to post on this subject is simply down to the fact that I've done all of this over the last decade or so. Sadly, watching the videos of these two simply remind me of my group of friends who have done similar drives and events but without tragedy.

I'll say it again for nothing if not clarification-as a past participant in similar events the behaviour of the two in question would be considered racing and reckless at best by the general public unfortunately.

Just because it is not in a closed circuit or against other competitors directly does not exclude it from this description by the general public.

I'm happy enough to admit I've driven these roads in exactly as dangerous a manor as these two lads and have gotten away with it. I've always considered it was down to skill and good judgment but I think after looking at this case I'll be happy admitting it might be down to nothing more than good fortune.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

smokeey said:

Does anybody know, is the drop off the side a sheer drop or more like a very steep slope ? Has the car dropped off and fell to the bottom or was it more of a roll down the side

Try entering the location into google Earth where you can get a grip of the scales involved

[csd19]

smokeey said:

Looking at the pic below they went off at the 3rd fence post (including the one directly next to concrete post thing). That's right at the exit of the corner



This video give a good view of / through the corner, note where the 3rd post is: https://youtu.be/8qBmVzuGyqs?t=22m21s

Now note where the BMW leaves the road in this clip : https://youtu.be/az_Vlgy5dbM?t=38s

The SEAT looks to of left the road slightly sooner than the BMW did (the BMW was pretty much out of the corner when he went off, the SEAT still on the exit of the corner) but that would make sense as the BMW was in the inside lane of the bend so had the extra lane to cross before going over the edge.

Well thats my theory anyway.

ETA : so my point is, I think they did exactly what the BMW did and just overcooked it and understeered off

Skipping forward to 10:00 on the panoramic shows what looks like bright orange markings denoting tyre marks heading over the edge.

I recognised Josh's username from SeatCupra.Net and half-guessed (although hoped it wasn't) that it might be someone from SCN.

RIP to the two lads, and condolences to the families they have left behind.

[MG CHRIS]

Was planning on attending this run at some point in the future and while doing organises runs throughout south and mid wales with the mx5 there are a few times I could of had a big moment if I had more power etc etc, at 22 I got a mx5 with 130bhp and that's is plenty for the road that ive been on.
Things like this certainly does make you stop and think what can happen if things don't go the right way.

Rip to the 2 lads involved just glad they didn't take anybody off with them. Also feel bad for the prosche driver and the rest of the drivers doing the run what a sad thing for all to have to be involved with.

[mybrainhurts]

smokeey said:

Looking at the pic below they went off at the 3rd fence post (including the one directly next to concrete post thing). That's right at the exit of the corner



This video give a good view of / through the corner, note where the 3rd post is: https://youtu.be/8qBmVzuGyqs?t=22m21s

Now note where the BMW leaves the road in this clip : https://youtu.be/az_Vlgy5dbM?t=38s

The SEAT looks to of left the road slightly sooner than the BMW did (the BMW was pretty much out of the corner when he went off, the SEAT still on the exit of the corner) but that would make sense as the BMW was in the inside lane of the bend so had the extra lane to cross before going over the edge.

Well thats my theory anyway.

ETA : so my point is, I think they did exactly what the BMW did and just overcooked it and understeered off

Err...bends went in different directions.

Any road up, your first link was interesting.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a pedestrian running across from left to right?

[DonkeyApple]

smokeey said:

DonkeyApple said:

Of all the seats in the back are lowered then I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't.

And the glovebox drink trays dropped?

Genius. That may be why some people thought it wouldn't work.