2 young guys killed in Austrian Alps racing. Came off a clif
Discussion
Back in the day I used to do a fair amount of rallying both forest and Tarmac stages. And at the level we competed pace note were not allowed but even forest tracks were shown on os maps so you could get a good idea of where it went .these days with google maps and the like on my iPad I can get that road in very good detail and if I was taking part in something like that event and was intent on driving it as quickly as I could I would sure have my passenger with a tablet on his lap and him at least giving me some idea of what was coming ......
itspaul said:
Back in the day I used to do a fair amount of rallying both forest and Tarmac stages. And at the level we competed pace note were not allowed but even forest tracks were shown on os maps so you could get a good idea of where it went .these days with google maps and the like on my iPad I can get that road in very good detail and if I was taking part in something like that event and was intent on driving it as quickly as I could I would sure have my passenger with a tablet on his lap and him at least giving me some idea of what was coming ......
Indeed as would I ........ as I started rallying (both driving and nav) at 17 a few months after passing my test - but that was a relatively easy thing to do back in 1980! aeropilot said:
itspaul said:
Back in the day I used to do a fair amount of rallying both forest and Tarmac stages. And at the level we competed pace note were not allowed but even forest tracks were shown on os maps so you could get a good idea of where it went .these days with google maps and the like on my iPad I can get that road in very good detail and if I was taking part in something like that event and was intent on driving it as quickly as I could I would sure have my passenger with a tablet on his lap and him at least giving me some idea of what was coming ......
Indeed as would I ........ as I started rallying (both driving and nav) at 17 a few months after passing my test - but that was a relatively easy thing to do back in 1980! TTmonkey said:
So why haven't we heard the Porsche drivers full storey anywhere? Surely he would be able to say wether or not they were driving up together, in some fast convoy ( not racing but maybe exceeding the speed limit?. )
Or is the fear of being accused of a crime too strong?
He has Or is the fear of being accused of a crime too strong?
he said he last saw them at the toll booth and they didn't turn up at their meeting point (at the glacier). If true, there's little else to say.JuniorD said:
In the Salzburg news website the guy Johannes Hörl, is quoted as syaing
"Die jungen Briten sind mit ihrem Auto mit extrem überhöhter Geschwindigkeit hinauf gefahren. Sie haben die Absturzsicherung für Fußgänger durchstoßen. Sie waren fünfmal so schnell unterwegs, als dort erlaubt ist."
I speak German and my translation is "The young Britons drove up at extreme excessive speed. They crashed through the pedestrian fall protection barriers. They were moving five times as fast as is allowed there".
Allowed = permitted.
Listen to the interview of Hörl in the video on the same page. The ORF, the Austrian state TV, mis-interpreted what he said. "Die jungen Briten sind mit ihrem Auto mit extrem überhöhter Geschwindigkeit hinauf gefahren. Sie haben die Absturzsicherung für Fußgänger durchstoßen. Sie waren fünfmal so schnell unterwegs, als dort erlaubt ist."
I speak German and my translation is "The young Britons drove up at extreme excessive speed. They crashed through the pedestrian fall protection barriers. They were moving five times as fast as is allowed there".
Allowed = permitted.
Edited by JuniorD on Wednesday 29th July 15:09
0:53 ...in vorraussichtlich [sic] hundert bis äh hundertf... also hundertfünfzig km/h heraufgefahren...
1:10 ...mit um etwa drei- bis fünffacher Geschwindigkeit, die man hier in diesem Langsamfahrbereich an und für sich anwendet...
He does name his estimate of 150km/h, and he says that must have been three to five times what is the average 'normally applied' speed in this section.
News sexed up for sensation/entertainment shocker.
From what we have seen regarding his previous videos you can be almost certain if they were trying to keep up with that Porsche it will have been filmed and somewhere is that footage probably in the hands of the police .... Whether or not it will ever be released or published is another matter. But as time goes on I feel so sorry for the guy in the passenger seat next to him was someone who was suffering from the red mist that we all encounter at some time and he ultimately made an error of judgement which cost them there lives .........
LaurasOtherHalf said:
aeropilot said:
itspaul said:
Back in the day I used to do a fair amount of rallying both forest and Tarmac stages. And at the level we competed pace note were not allowed but even forest tracks were shown on os maps so you could get a good idea of where it went .these days with google maps and the like on my iPad I can get that road in very good detail and if I was taking part in something like that event and was intent on driving it as quickly as I could I would sure have my passenger with a tablet on his lap and him at least giving me some idea of what was coming ......
Indeed as would I ........ as I started rallying (both driving and nav) at 17 a few months after passing my test - but that was a relatively easy thing to do back in 1980! TTmonkey said:
So why haven't we heard the Porsche drivers full storey anywhere? Surely he would be able to say wether or not they were driving up together, in some fast convoy ( not racing but maybe exceeding the speed limit?. )
Or is the fear of being accused of a crime too strong?
He has Or is the fear of being accused of a crime too strong?
he said he last saw them at the toll booth and they didn't turn up at their meeting point (at the glacier). If true, there's little else to say.Tuvra said:
DJRC said:
This is a very weird thread.
I find it eerily fascinating.Bar the knobs arguing about the MR2's of course
I'd rather talk about MR2s, than try and be an armchair sleuth because of a Facebook post, and decide whether or not the guys knew they were going to die 0.001 seconds before they burst through the fence and plummeted to their deaths, and trying to see if I could find the last photo of them alive... Your "eerily fascinating" might be seen by others as "gawkishly morbid".
Horses for courses.
48 pages now- unbelievable. Let's suppose the poor lads hadn't died but had just a near miss. 2 -3 pages tops? So it's the death thing that fascinates and some seem to justify their weird preoccupation with somebody's death as useful . As in, "I didn't know how dangerous driving could be and this has made me think". Really ? Nearly 2000 people a year die on UK roads and this is ..err..news ? As I said earlier (at page 32 when I thought what the hell is all this about ?) leave it to the coroner. And to the guy who asked me if I have ever read an inquest report the answer is 'yes, and rather more than I would have liked '.
Just let it be .
Just let it be .
coppice said:
48 pages now- unbelievable. Let's suppose the poor lads hadn't died but had just a near miss. 2 -3 pages tops? So it's the death thing that fascinates and some seem to justify their weird preoccupation with somebody's death as useful . As in, "I didn't know how dangerous driving could be and this has made me think". Really ? Nearly 2000 people a year die on UK roads and this is ..err..news ? As I said earlier (at page 32 when I thought what the hell is all this about ?) leave it to the coroner. And to the guy who asked me if I have ever read an inquest report the answer is 'yes, and rather more than I would have liked '.
Just let it be .
How are people seeing this many pages? I'm only on page 6.Just let it be .
Anyway, as mentioned above this accident is interesting to a lot of people here as many of us have done or are planning to do similar trips.
I've driven quickly (probably too quickly) on similar roads many times and never thought for a minute about going over the side. This accident and the discussions here will certainly make me take more care in the future, that can only be a good thing can't it?
Blaster72 said:
coppice said:
48 pages now- unbelievable. Let's suppose the poor lads hadn't died but had just a near miss. 2 -3 pages tops? So it's the death thing that fascinates and some seem to justify their weird preoccupation with somebody's death as useful . As in, "I didn't know how dangerous driving could be and this has made me think". Really ? Nearly 2000 people a year die on UK roads and this is ..err..news ? As I said earlier (at page 32 when I thought what the hell is all this about ?) leave it to the coroner. And to the guy who asked me if I have ever read an inquest report the answer is 'yes, and rather more than I would have liked '.
Just let it be .
How are people seeing this many pages? I'm only on page 6.Just let it be .
Anyway, as mentioned above this accident is interesting to a lot of people here as many of us have done or are planning to do similar trips.
I've driven quickly (probably too quickly) on similar roads many times and never thought for a minute about going over the side. This accident and the discussions here will certainly make me take more care in the future, that can only be a good thing can't it?
andy118run said:
Blaster72 said:
coppice said:
48 pages now- unbelievable. Let's suppose the poor lads hadn't died but had just a near miss. 2 -3 pages tops? So it's the death thing that fascinates and some seem to justify their weird preoccupation with somebody's death as useful . As in, "I didn't know how dangerous driving could be and this has made me think". Really ? Nearly 2000 people a year die on UK roads and this is ..err..news ? As I said earlier (at page 32 when I thought what the hell is all this about ?) leave it to the coroner. And to the guy who asked me if I have ever read an inquest report the answer is 'yes, and rather more than I would have liked '.
Just let it be .
How are people seeing this many pages? I'm only on page 6.Just let it be .
Anyway, as mentioned above this accident is interesting to a lot of people here as many of us have done or are planning to do similar trips.
I've driven quickly (probably too quickly) on similar roads many times and never thought for a minute about going over the side. This accident and the discussions here will certainly make me take more care in the future, that can only be a good thing can't it?
Back on topic, I think the interest is this sad and morbid tale is that most of us have enjoyed a bit of spirited driving at some point, whether it be the Alps, EVO Triangle, Highlands, etc, and I think there is a bit of "What if that was me in the car?" in the tale. The human imagination, I think, tries to comprehend this and those last moments as a way of dealing with what some of us could have experienced at one point.
MikeT66 said:
Back on topic, I think the interest is this sad and morbid tale is that most of us have enjoyed a bit of spirited driving at some point, whether it be the Alps, EVO Triangle, Highlands, etc, and I think there is a bit of "What if that was me in the car?" in the tale. The human imagination, I think, tries to comprehend this and those last moments as a way of dealing with what some of us could have experienced at one point.
Agree with that. I think it's perfectly natural to try and understand what happened in order to come to terms with it. When it's come from a situation that we can relate to, it's even more compelling.I also think it's part of our survival instinct, to learn as much as we can about it so we can avoid it happening to us.
That's not to say there isn't a point where it becomes perverse, but just trying to understand the cause is natural for some people.
I guess the question is, had these guys read a thread like this before leaving on their trip would they still be alive today ?
Had they read a coroners report about an Alpine car crash before they left would they still be alive ?
The interesting thing about this accident is that we have seen exactly where the accident was and the approach to the corner in question. We have also seen the lads footage from a previous day.
I think the information in this thread is more informative than what has been written in the papers.
Had they read a coroners report about an Alpine car crash before they left would they still be alive ?
The interesting thing about this accident is that we have seen exactly where the accident was and the approach to the corner in question. We have also seen the lads footage from a previous day.
I think the information in this thread is more informative than what has been written in the papers.
coppice said:
48 pages now- unbelievable. Let's suppose the poor lads hadn't died but had just a near miss. 2 -3 pages tops? So it's the death thing that fascinates and some seem to justify their weird preoccupation with somebody's death as useful . As in, "I didn't know how dangerous driving could be and this has made me think". Really ? Nearly 2000 people a year die on UK roads and this is ..err..news ? As I said earlier (at page 32 when I thought what the hell is all this about ?) leave it to the coroner. And to the guy who asked me if I have ever read an inquest report the answer is 'yes, and rather more than I would have liked '.
Just let it be .
Imagine if the gunman in Tunisia had been caught before the attack on the beach. 2-3 pages tops.Just let it be .
It's how life and death is perceived and processed by so many. This is PH, we all like cars and we all like a spirited drive in scenic locations. The beach scenario was 'that could have been me' as was this. If you don't like it f**k off and leave it to us that are interested and get down off your high horse.
coppice said:
48 pages now- unbelievable. Let's suppose the poor lads hadn't died but had just a near miss. 2 -3 pages tops? So it's the death thing that fascinates and some seem to justify their weird preoccupation with somebody's death as useful . As in, "I didn't know how dangerous driving could be and this has made me think". Really ? Nearly 2000 people a year die on UK roads and this is ..err..news ? As I said earlier (at page 32 when I thought what the hell is all this about ?) leave it to the coroner. And to the guy who asked me if I have ever read an inquest report the answer is 'yes, and rather more than I would have liked '.
Just let it be .
Give it a rest and stop trying to impose your moral stance on others.Just let it be .
Don't read the thread if it's not to your liking. Nobody is going to take the slightest notice of your demands, just as they didn't last time.
I'm pretty sure this is merely a case poor driving from someone with lots of confidence hat thinks they are better than they actually are. Looking at the seatcurpa threads, including his "build" thread, I cannot help feeling the guy is somewhat leading the life of someone he is not! And by that I mean he appears to be some self styled motoring journo, everything he does he takes a pic of and posts it up, which is fine in itself, but it can lead one to think they are something they are not perhaps? Perhaps a better vehicle engineer, perhaps a more exhuberant personality, perhaps the seeming adulation that living ones life online like that can bring, makes one think you are a better driver than one really is?
I hate to say it, but this guy does genuinely appear to fit the stereotype of an "accident waiting to happen", a dreadful phrase btw that is misused by every NIMBY and jobsworth out there! But I think he and to a lesser extent his cohort, just got caught up in a roller coaster of buying a quick hatch, tuning a quick hatch, posting all about it, getting adulation from similar minded people, driving it about no doubt inappropriately at times, (some video evidence of that), getting away with that, people thinking they are "Ledgends" etc, and time just ran out for them. It is a shame, they aren't the first and wont be the last, but the comments about if someone similar reads this thread etc, may hold some hope for those behind..
It is interesting, there is mention on seatcupra about mechanical failures on this car, engine and gearbox mountings, and some suggestion parts had previously been fitted that appeared to have failed. Maybe something did give up the ghost, but regardless, driver should always have a margin for error that will mitigate the (in this case, tragic) results.
I wonder how many trackdays this guy had been on, how much tuition he had sought to help him drive his car. It is clear he spent a lot of time and money making it faster, but I wonder how much time and money he spent on the largest difference to safe vehicle performance, the guy behind then wheel? I genuinely don't know the answer, but I suspect it is somewhat less than he spent on tuning parts.
It is sad, and I feel sorry for the families and friends affected. The only fortunate thing in all this is that there was seemingly no other vehicle involved in a collision etc, and that is of stark comfort to the families etc, I know that. But perhaps the infamy sought by these guys may well be achieved posthumously, and perhaps other people who get themselves caught up in the excitement of a life, forum, trip, stretch of road, or mere corner, will spare a thought for the price paid by these guys and their families...?
RIP chaps.
I hate to say it, but this guy does genuinely appear to fit the stereotype of an "accident waiting to happen", a dreadful phrase btw that is misused by every NIMBY and jobsworth out there! But I think he and to a lesser extent his cohort, just got caught up in a roller coaster of buying a quick hatch, tuning a quick hatch, posting all about it, getting adulation from similar minded people, driving it about no doubt inappropriately at times, (some video evidence of that), getting away with that, people thinking they are "Ledgends" etc, and time just ran out for them. It is a shame, they aren't the first and wont be the last, but the comments about if someone similar reads this thread etc, may hold some hope for those behind..
It is interesting, there is mention on seatcupra about mechanical failures on this car, engine and gearbox mountings, and some suggestion parts had previously been fitted that appeared to have failed. Maybe something did give up the ghost, but regardless, driver should always have a margin for error that will mitigate the (in this case, tragic) results.
I wonder how many trackdays this guy had been on, how much tuition he had sought to help him drive his car. It is clear he spent a lot of time and money making it faster, but I wonder how much time and money he spent on the largest difference to safe vehicle performance, the guy behind then wheel? I genuinely don't know the answer, but I suspect it is somewhat less than he spent on tuning parts.
It is sad, and I feel sorry for the families and friends affected. The only fortunate thing in all this is that there was seemingly no other vehicle involved in a collision etc, and that is of stark comfort to the families etc, I know that. But perhaps the infamy sought by these guys may well be achieved posthumously, and perhaps other people who get themselves caught up in the excitement of a life, forum, trip, stretch of road, or mere corner, will spare a thought for the price paid by these guys and their families...?
RIP chaps.
Edited by s3fella on Friday 31st July 10:03
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