2 young guys killed in Austrian Alps racing. Came off a clif
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
hora said:
R.I.P.
The seatbelt reference in the article seems to be unfair and out of order.
As is all the references to "racing". It's a load of hogwash.The seatbelt reference in the article seems to be unfair and out of order.
It might not fit your description but two cars travelling together at high speed?
LaurasOtherHalf said:
It might not fit your description but two cars travelling together at high speed?
I've been on countless hoons with other people over the decades including some highly enjoyable ones via PH, and at no time ever was anybody "racing".The coroners court should deal in facts, not the stupid opinions of numptys.
Surely the authorities would be able to publish the estimated speed that they believe the vehicle was doing immediately prior to the accident? Either from skid marks, trajectory, speedo impact freeze etc?
They took out a stretch of barrier before going off too, and although clearly not 'regulation armco' it must have been fairly substantial?
I believe the guys got carried away, possibly hit some kind of issue (early morning damp patch perhaps) or suffered a malfunction, or just became disorientated and took a corner at an inappropriate speed. However, I'd also suggest they were hooning to the max, perhaps even timing/filming their progress for their 'fans' on youtube and probably exceeding the speed limit by a factor of more than two. What did their previous driving video posts tell us about their driving styles.
I don't believe sunlight was an issue, they were in the shadow side of the mountain (as proved by images from the web cam which show the minutes before and after the accident).
It wont have been 'swerve because of the animal scenario either'. Cliff face on one side, sheer drop on the other, no reports of any such by other witnesses,.
I'd say probably taking a corner at around 150kph ish that was impossible to hold in that car with those tyres and that driver. Misjudgement. What was the speed limit there? 50kph? 70?
Clearly not racing in any professional definition. To non car people though... racing. to their fate.
They took out a stretch of barrier before going off too, and although clearly not 'regulation armco' it must have been fairly substantial?
I believe the guys got carried away, possibly hit some kind of issue (early morning damp patch perhaps) or suffered a malfunction, or just became disorientated and took a corner at an inappropriate speed. However, I'd also suggest they were hooning to the max, perhaps even timing/filming their progress for their 'fans' on youtube and probably exceeding the speed limit by a factor of more than two. What did their previous driving video posts tell us about their driving styles.
I don't believe sunlight was an issue, they were in the shadow side of the mountain (as proved by images from the web cam which show the minutes before and after the accident).
It wont have been 'swerve because of the animal scenario either'. Cliff face on one side, sheer drop on the other, no reports of any such by other witnesses,.
I'd say probably taking a corner at around 150kph ish that was impossible to hold in that car with those tyres and that driver. Misjudgement. What was the speed limit there? 50kph? 70?
Clearly not racing in any professional definition. To non car people though... racing. to their fate.
It was quite a crest iirc from the streetview of the road. Wouldn't be surprised if under steer sent them to their doom as the weight of the car was lifted by the crest.
The term racing is dangerous. Very rarely are cars racing on public roads, often it's mates driving together but called racing when public sees 2 or more driving at speeds together. It's why I'm not a big fan of riding in convoy because if you're seen to have a spirited bit of driving together, you're instantly stamped with 'racing'.
The term racing is dangerous. Very rarely are cars racing on public roads, often it's mates driving together but called racing when public sees 2 or more driving at speeds together. It's why I'm not a big fan of riding in convoy because if you're seen to have a spirited bit of driving together, you're instantly stamped with 'racing'.
Then keep the "spirited driving in close proximity to other cars but we're not racing, honest" to a track. Of course you're racing. You're trying to keep up with another car, to prove that your car is as quick/your skills are as good.
I'm all for a bit of speed, but there is a time and a place, and on public roads with other (let's face it, s
t) drivers isn't it...
All we're missing is someone quoting that Paul Walker tt, that "speed = I died happy" quote.
I'm all for a bit of speed, but there is a time and a place, and on public roads with other (let's face it, s
t) drivers isn't it... All we're missing is someone quoting that Paul Walker t
t, that "speed = I died happy" quote. Oh do climb down from your high horse. My point wasn't about the 2 people doing their flying off the cliff bit (which was no accident, it was the fault of the driver according to the inquest), it was about the "racing" definition directly above my reply.
Again, if you want to drive fast - as in beyond the limit of your skill or your car - then stick to a track.
Again, if you want to drive fast - as in beyond the limit of your skill or your car - then stick to a track.
Boydie88 said:
It was quite a crest iirc from the streetview of the road. Wouldn't be surprised if under steer sent them to their doom as the weight of the car was lifted by the crest.
The term racing is dangerous. Very rarely are cars racing on public roads, often it's mates driving together but called racing when public sees 2 or more driving at speeds together. It's why I'm not a big fan of riding in convoy because if you're seen to have a spirited bit of driving together, you're instantly stamped with 'racing'.
Yes the legal term for racing on the road isn't going be the same as a PH definition. Even if you are only having a 'playful dabble' with another driver, if you are known to each other you will likely be accused of racing on the road. Doesn't have to be a start/finish line or a trophy.The term racing is dangerous. Very rarely are cars racing on public roads, often it's mates driving together but called racing when public sees 2 or more driving at speeds together. It's why I'm not a big fan of riding in convoy because if you're seen to have a spirited bit of driving together, you're instantly stamped with 'racing'.
Edited by 316Mining on Monday 14th November 11:14
heebeegeetee said:
OpulentBob said:
Again, if you want to drive fast - as in beyond the limit of your skill or your car - then stick to a track.
What a stupid, glib statement. It could be applied to just about any bump that ever took place.Intent.
These guys went out with the sole intent of driving to the limit on the public road. They mis-guessed where that limit was.
Any other location, it'd have been a hole in a hedge or a wall, or a dive into a ditch. Maybe a stout tree if they were really unlucky.
This location was a bit more unforgiving, to the surprise of nobody.
Whether or not there was a suspension problem that they were aware of is a minor detail. If it's true, it merely compounds their self-inflicted stupidity.
heebeegeetee said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
It might not fit your description but two cars travelling together at high speed?
I've been on countless hoons with other people over the decades including some highly enjoyable ones via PH, and at no time ever was anybody "racing".The coroners court should deal in facts, not the stupid opinions of numptys.
Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Monday 14th November 18:50
TooMany2cvs said:
You miss one minor detail.
Intent.
These guys went out with the sole intent of driving to the limit on the public road. They mis-guessed where that limit was.
Any other location, it'd have been a hole in a hedge or a wall, or a dive into a ditch. Maybe a stout tree if they were really unlucky.
This location was a bit more unforgiving, to the surprise of nobody.
Whether or not there was a suspension problem that they were aware of is a minor detail. If it's true, it merely compounds their self-inflicted stupidity.
Actually that precise location of the accident is a total disaster area if you are carrying any speed.... The approach is good for 120mph, with no sign that the corner, blind both because of the crest and the sharp turn, is no more than 40-50 mph in a car. Watch bikers videos of that point, they drop huge speed there as its a straight ahead over the edge.Intent.
These guys went out with the sole intent of driving to the limit on the public road. They mis-guessed where that limit was.
Any other location, it'd have been a hole in a hedge or a wall, or a dive into a ditch. Maybe a stout tree if they were really unlucky.
This location was a bit more unforgiving, to the surprise of nobody.
Whether or not there was a suspension problem that they were aware of is a minor detail. If it's true, it merely compounds their self-inflicted stupidity.
Any kind of mis-appreciation of the road is going to end in disaster if approached with speed. Doesn't need any kind of other factor. The preceding part of the road sucks you along as its high speed capable layout with no clear indication that it tightens so bad at the crest.
I think you'd go off if doing 75, let alone faster (which I suspect they were doing, previous videos they posted the day before they died show them opening the taps right up for any straight, and taking corners near the limit when traffic allowed.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
heebeegeetee said:
The coroners court should deal in facts, not the stupid opinions of numptys.
You're being naive as to what the public perception is of two sports cars driving fast and overtaking. Witness 10p shorts thread for what witnesses think of your average hoon.In the absence of "facts" (directly measurable tyre marks or other scientific evidence), the ONLY thing that a court - any court - can go on is witness testimony. Where there's a jury, then "the stupid opinion of numpties" is what actually decides the verdict...
TooMany2cvs said:
heebeegeetee said:
OpulentBob said:
Again, if you want to drive fast - as in beyond the limit of your skill or your car - then stick to a track.
What a stupid, glib statement. It could be applied to just about any bump that ever took place.Intent.
These guys went out with the sole intent of driving to the limit on the public road. They mis-guessed where that limit was.
Any other location, it'd have been a hole in a hedge or a wall, or a dive into a ditch. Maybe a stout tree if they were really unlucky.
This location was a bit more unforgiving, to the surprise of nobody.
Whether or not there was a suspension problem that they were aware of is a minor detail. If it's true, it merely compounds their self-inflicted stupidity.
about it. TooMany2cvs said:
hondansx said:
Oh, be quiet. Two people have died...
Of self-inflicted stupidity. Fortunately, they didn't take anybody else with them.RIP. Two bloody young and I'm also sick of the fast and furious films on a wider note. These lads were enjoying a mountain grand tour IMO and as far as I or anyone knows.
hora said:
Hi I've commented on many many threads on here AGAINGST glorifying speeding - just visit SPL forum on here. I hate speeders but in noway can you class or accurately predict what speeds they were doing up there. On a dangerous mountain road in Majorca recently I had 'tyre squeel' on a few bends. That's the tyres being strained on right turns and just because they 'sped' from the hotel means nothing.
RIP. Two bloody young and I'm also sick of the fast and furious films on a wider note. These lads were enjoying a mountain grand tour IMO and as far as I or anyone knows.
During their own video on the same road posted up hours before the crash the driver killed comments that they are doing 100mph, just feet from a drop that has no crash barrier. And that was filmed in the middle of the day with the road busy with other road users, cyclists, pedestrians etc. Perhaps the reason the accident happened at 7.14 in the morning was to do with wanting to take the road with no or few other users to hinder progress....?RIP. Two bloody young and I'm also sick of the fast and furious films on a wider note. These lads were enjoying a mountain grand tour IMO and as far as I or anyone knows.
Edited by 316Mining on Monday 14th November 13:21
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