Hot Hatches or RWD Saloon?
Discussion
Symbolica said:
blearyeyedboy said:
^ Good for you. The point of the thread is to find a fun option with some real-world compromise though. So, for people needing rear seats, what would you suggest for similar mpney/resources? Seriously- I'm not being provocative but not everyone can have an Ariel Atom on their driveway.
If you'd said the previous 2.5 ST vs the E46 330i then it would be a genuinely difficult choice - but for the two listed I'm not sure I'd get out of bed for either of them 
blearyeyedboy said:
Yeah, I suppose the C class was a bad thing to mention by me. I was deliberately trying not to make this just about BMW... but until the XE launches the rest of that RWD group (C Class, IS300h) aren't famed for their sporting potential.
Basically, "Blearyeyedboy's original premise is wrong" seems to be the consensus of the group, and I'm OK with that.
I think the RX8 was a really good idea, hampered by using the wrong engine for these CO2 conscious times. (I'm not saying the rotary engine isn't any good, just that it was commercial suicide when CO2 emissions became important.) Mazda could do worse than to resurrect the concept without a rotary... but they'll never do that.
Hmm... buy a cheap RX8 and do an interesting engine transplant...
I'm sure there's a thread about an interesting LS1 V8 transplant on here.
Personally I really liked the rotary and wouldn't swap the engine from it (apart from for a 3-rotor!;) ) but it's a bit unfair to included it as its not a saloon. Basically, "Blearyeyedboy's original premise is wrong" seems to be the consensus of the group, and I'm OK with that.
I think the RX8 was a really good idea, hampered by using the wrong engine for these CO2 conscious times. (I'm not saying the rotary engine isn't any good, just that it was commercial suicide when CO2 emissions became important.) Mazda could do worse than to resurrect the concept without a rotary... but they'll never do that.
Hmm... buy a cheap RX8 and do an interesting engine transplant...
I'm sure there's a thread about an interesting LS1 V8 transplant on here.blearyeyedboy said:
mp3manager said:
The best of both worlds.
My new car outside my new gaff.
Excellent choice, sir. My new car outside my new gaff.
The question suggests that which wheels get driven has the most influence over whether a car is fun to drive down a twisty road. I'd say that the rest of the car makes a much bigger difference and that I would not be able to answer the question only on the knowledge of what wheels are driven.
I've driven some utterly dull RWD cars, some were even BMWs.. and I've driven some very entertaining FWD cars too.
All other things being equal, RWD has more potential - for me because the front wheels can provide crisper feedback. In the modern world of power steering 2turns lock to lock and 245/35 front tyres though, I don't think that RWD has much of that advantafe left.
I know someone sooner or later will go on about tokyo drifts and such but on a b-road there're rarely any room and you can get a balanced FWD car just as sideways if you want and it's just as much fun.
I've driven some utterly dull RWD cars, some were even BMWs.. and I've driven some very entertaining FWD cars too.
All other things being equal, RWD has more potential - for me because the front wheels can provide crisper feedback. In the modern world of power steering 2turns lock to lock and 245/35 front tyres though, I don't think that RWD has much of that advantafe left.
I know someone sooner or later will go on about tokyo drifts and such but on a b-road there're rarely any room and you can get a balanced FWD car just as sideways if you want and it's just as much fun.
StuntmanMike said:
E46 330 for me, not saying its the better car, I just wouldn't know what to do if I got in trouble in a FWD car.
Not sure if serious.... No different to RWD car. You look and steer where you want to go. You do the opposite - gently - with the pedals to whatever it is you did with them that got you into trouble in the first place. And put the handbrake back down
kiseca said:
StuntmanMike said:
E46 330 for me, not saying its the better car, I just wouldn't know what to do if I got in trouble in a FWD car.
Not sure if serious.... No different to RWD car. You look and steer where you want to go. You do the opposite - gently - with the pedals to whatever it is you did with them that got you into trouble in the first place. And put the handbrake back down
ging84 said:
justanother5tar said:
330i owner. Ex Fiesta ST owner.
Miss my hot hatch. Now looking at Mini Cooper S's.
As practical, comfy and brisk as it is, I miss throwing a little lively car around. RWD f
king sucks. FWD understeering toy all the way.
I may get flamed for the last sentence.
I used to have a 530, current have a mini, fwd fMiss my hot hatch. Now looking at Mini Cooper S's.
As practical, comfy and brisk as it is, I miss throwing a little lively car around. RWD f
king sucks. FWD understeering toy all the way.I may get flamed for the last sentence.
king sucks, can't get a decent launch of the line and every time it rains and i have nothing rwd to go out in, i cryBut drifting in the rain is cheating.
kiseca said:
The question suggests that which wheels get driven has the most influence over whether a car is fun to drive down a twisty road. I'd say that the rest of the car makes a much bigger difference and that I would not be able to answer the question only on the knowledge of what wheels are driven.
I've driven some utterly dull RWD cars, some were even BMWs.. and I've driven some very entertaining FWD cars too.
All other things being equal, RWD has more potential - for me because the front wheels can provide crisper feedback. In the modern world of power steering 2turns lock to lock and 245/35 front tyres though, I don't think that RWD has much of that advantafe left.
I know someone sooner or later will go on about tokyo drifts and such but on a b-road there're rarely any room and you can get a balanced FWD car just as sideways if you want and it's just as much fun.
Good post, I think. The original question I posed wasn't because I only care about RWD and FWD- I've driven both but all the ones I've bought with my own money are FWD. I just wondered if there was merit in thinking of less typical alternatives to a Golf GTi/Golf R. (Most people's replies seem to agree that I'm barking up the wrong tree though!) I've driven some utterly dull RWD cars, some were even BMWs.. and I've driven some very entertaining FWD cars too.
All other things being equal, RWD has more potential - for me because the front wheels can provide crisper feedback. In the modern world of power steering 2turns lock to lock and 245/35 front tyres though, I don't think that RWD has much of that advantafe left.
I know someone sooner or later will go on about tokyo drifts and such but on a b-road there're rarely any room and you can get a balanced FWD car just as sideways if you want and it's just as much fun.
jamieduff1981 said:
What a horrible choice.
A sodding hatchback or a castrated RWD saloon. I wouldn't bother with the detours with either of those - just the fastest way to the destination so I could get out.
I hate hatchbacks and I intensely dislike 4 pots.
+1A sodding hatchback or a castrated RWD saloon. I wouldn't bother with the detours with either of those - just the fastest way to the destination so I could get out.
I hate hatchbacks and I intensely dislike 4 pots.
I would go straight to destination unless I could take at least a straight 6 petrol like my Z4C (it's a hatch after all)!
If that wasn't an option my 325ti Compact would work, or what I probably should have bought instead of both of them, a 130i!
blearyeyedboy said:
kiseca said:
The question suggests that which wheels get driven has the most influence over whether a car is fun to drive down a twisty road. I'd say that the rest of the car makes a much bigger difference and that I would not be able to answer the question only on the knowledge of what wheels are driven.
I've driven some utterly dull RWD cars, some were even BMWs.. and I've driven some very entertaining FWD cars too.
All other things being equal, RWD has more potential - for me because the front wheels can provide crisper feedback. In the modern world of power steering 2turns lock to lock and 245/35 front tyres though, I don't think that RWD has much of that advantafe left.
I know someone sooner or later will go on about tokyo drifts and such but on a b-road there're rarely any room and you can get a balanced FWD car just as sideways if you want and it's just as much fun.
Good post, I think. The original question I posed wasn't because I only care about RWD and FWD- I've driven both but all the ones I've bought with my own money are FWD. I just wondered if there was merit in thinking of less typical alternatives to a Golf GTi/Golf R. (Most people's replies seem to agree that I'm barking up the wrong tree though!) I've driven some utterly dull RWD cars, some were even BMWs.. and I've driven some very entertaining FWD cars too.
All other things being equal, RWD has more potential - for me because the front wheels can provide crisper feedback. In the modern world of power steering 2turns lock to lock and 245/35 front tyres though, I don't think that RWD has much of that advantafe left.
I know someone sooner or later will go on about tokyo drifts and such but on a b-road there're rarely any room and you can get a balanced FWD car just as sideways if you want and it's just as much fun.
blearyeyedboy said:
Toltec said:
Looks sporty, but may come with maintenance issues.
Are we still discussing RX8's? 
well played. I'm very much one to take a a proper hot hatch over a standard issue saloon.
I know on PH people will argue through the night that the lowest powered BMW is far superior to the very best hot hatches simply because it sends it's meager power to the back wheels.
I believe there is far far more to making a good car than just it's driven wheels.
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