RE: Lotus Evora 400 :Driven

[kambites]

Vee12V said:

My quote is probably over a standard R (without PCCBs, optional LW seats, etc), but 15 from the doors alone seems massive?
The -10kg was from removal of sound deadening IIRC.

Have you ever tried to pick up a modern car door?

[blueg33]

All this talk about weight is a red herring IMO. I suspect many of us could reduce the weight of our cars by going to the gym and eating better.....,

[Europa1]

Jellinek said:

otolith said:

kambites said:

However pathetic they might be the Evora does have two more seats

Changes back there - the seat is almost a foot wider, though I guess head and legroom are more issues than width. I did read somewhere that the new front seats have improved the rear legroom.

2009



400

Quite shocked how low-rent the rear of the 400 looks. I had to double take to realise which was the "upgraded" one. The 2009 interior looks far more opulent imo. An interesting move given the criticism of the interior quality on the original. I assume they have de-spec'd the rear to reduce weight and cost and have spent some of that money on the front?

The impression I have from the various articles is that they did it to make the rear seats more usable. Lovely as they are on the outgoing Evora, they are for most people a very nicely finished luggage area due to head- and legroom issues.

[kambites]

The design of the new ones is actually quite 911esque with the carpet running between the seat-back and the base.

The thing I was commenting on specifically was the increase in legroom created by the revised front seats, though. I'd only ever buy an Evora with the intention of carrying kids in the back so unless I can drive it comfortably with enough space behind the seat for a pair of legs, it might as well be a 2-seater as far as I'm concerned.



Looking at the figures, it's clear that Lotus are aiming this revision squarely at the 991 Carrera S. The specs are almost identical - same power, same weight, same seating layout,... OK the Evora clearly focuses a bit more on ride and handling where the 911 focuses more on build quality and refinement but they look extremely closely matched on paper. If they can match the 911 for practicality (something the original Evora miserably failed to do) they would appear to have a very desirable package; if the rear seats are useless tokens, they're competing with the Cayman and that makes the Evora look over-priced and over-weight.

If there is a marked improvement, it'll be interesting to see if anyone offers to retro-fit the new seats to the old Evora (assuming that's possible without major chassis revisions).

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 28th July 13:25

[otolith]

Yes, think they've traded plushness for functionality (and maybe shed some weight).

[Gorbyrev]

Quickmoose said:

Gorbyrev said:

And for all the calls for another Esprit, this car is much better resolved and provides a value for performance that far exceeds that brief. Well done Lotus.

and?
The Cayman offers better value than a 991...or a 918
Brands of this staure demand something aspirational and halo providing.

The Cayman is what it is because of the 911 range... it's development from the top down, stuff learnt from 959/918 has and will make itself felt throughout the lower models.

Lotus appear to be doing the reverse....

Fair enough, but the point I was trying to make is that the Evora is arguably more accomplished in the current market place than the Esprit was in its own time. Comparing the Evora to Porches is an apples and pears comparison. Porsche have built a commendable product range with loyal customers. Lotus are doing something different, as they always have.

[Quickmoose]

Gorbyrev said:

Fair enough, but the point I was trying to make is that the Evora is arguably more accomplished in the current market place than the Esprit was in its own time. Comparing the Evora to Porches is an apples and pears comparison. Porsche have built a commendable product range with loyal customers. Lotus are doing something different, as they always have.

And that's a reasonable I guess....back then though you had Renault Aplines and flaky TVRs, the Espprit held it's own rather well I remember against truculent 308/328s too...

Don't Lotus build commendable products for loyal customers then?
Strikesme Chapman and Porsche both set out with similar intentions, perhaps coming from a different ideologies, one has just managed to do a few things better and appeal to wider range of people, whilst capatilising on decent marketing.
I don't think Chapman was very business orientated... and today that's coming home to roost somehwat.
Jaguar very nearly went the same way
Aston too.
Alfa trying had to dig themselves out of a similar predicament...

I'd love it for these types of brandds NOT to make it big like BMW/Porsche etc
There's alot to be said for charismatic niche alternatives...

Interesting times.

[Nero44]

I'll admit it, I love Lotus.

Owned a '90 Esprit years back and despite costing me a fortune to keep on the road it got under my skin way more than any of the Porsches I've owned.

Very nearly bought an Evora a few years back. Astoundingly good car and far more charismatic than German equivalents (IMHO). Didn't as ended up scratching the Ferrari itch. Drove both the manual and IPS versions and thought both were fun, the manual was more suited to the car though, to me. Does pain me to see the press not give the all the guys and girls at Hethel the credit they deserve. The Esprit, Elise, Exige, Evora are all fantastic cars and there will be an Exige V6 in the garage sometime soon. Also love the lines of the Evora Sports Racer, especially in white.

Not every car needs full leather dashboards, billet switches etc. I like striped out environments. If I wanted luxury I would have bought a different type of car. Porsche charge more for less in their GT3 models don't forget.

But then I chopped my 911 in for a Alfa 4C, so what do I know.

[Gorbyrev]

Quickmoose said:

Gorbyrev said:

Fair enough, but the point I was trying to make is that the Evora is arguably more accomplished in the current market place than the Esprit was in its own time. Comparing the Evora to Porches is an apples and pears comparison. Porsche have built a commendable product range with loyal customers. Lotus are doing something different, as they always have.

And that's a reasonable I guess....back then though you had Renault Aplines and flaky TVRs, the Espprit held it's own rather well I remember against truculent 308/328s too...

Don't Lotus build commendable products for loyal customers then?
Strikesme Chapman and Porsche both set out with similar intentions, perhaps coming from a different ideologies, one has just managed to do a few things better and appeal to wider range of people, whilst capatilising on decent marketing.
I don't think Chapman was very business orientated... and today that's coming home to roost somehwat.
Jaguar very nearly went the same way
Aston too.
Alfa trying had to dig themselves out of a similar predicament...

I'd love it for these types of brandds NOT to make it big like BMW/Porsche etc
There's alot to be said for charismatic niche alternatives...

Interesting times.

Well said and I agree. And yes, Lotus have done that too, and I would suggest that the Evora 400 continues in the tradition in a way that Gales' era Lotus have done so up to now.

[sunsurfer]

Good news that the Evora Roadster is in the pipeline. We should have had it at least 5 years ago.
I've seen many Caymans and a few Evoras. I like both of them but to me the Evora looks more like a junior supercar.

[SidewaysSi]

All this talk of weight - does it matter given it seems to destroy any Porsche on the road?

[Quickmoose]

SidewaysSi said:

All this talk of weight - does it matter given it seems to destroy any Porsche on the road?

Oh good grief...really??
It matters cos when you play top trumps you can't use the weight stat.
And if my dad were driving any Porsche he'd destroy your dad in the Lotus so nurr.

[SidewaysSi]

Quickmoose said:

SidewaysSi said:

All this talk of weight - does it matter given it seems to destroy any Porsche on the road?

Oh good grief...really??
It matters cos when you play top trumps you can't use the weight stat.
And if my dad were driving any Porsche he'd destroy your dad in the Lotus so nurr.

Indeed.

[tankplanker]

Just spoke to Lotus HQ to arrange a test drive of the new model, going to be 2/3 weeks before the new model is available for me to test drive. If it drives as well as its meant to then they have a sale.

I've been umming and errring between a new Cayman and a newish 911 for my replacement daily so I guess I'm the target market for the Evora. My biggest problem with the Porkers is the parsimonious base spec outside a GTS coupled with the expensive, even compared to their German neighbours. Oh, and the overly expensive finance deals, I thought this was meant to be the land of cheap credit?

[ManFromDelmonte]

Article said:

There's a little comfort blanket of understeer on turn-in but if you want things a little more exciting a nip and tuck lift to back the car into the turn gives you a host more options. All at once the back stepped out, I caught it with a dab of oppo and I was away.

Another 'queefism' from the PH front page.

Edited by ManFromDelmonte on Friday 31st July 14:15

[Ozzie Osmond]

kambites said:

Looking at the figures, it's clear that Lotus are aiming this revision squarely at the 991 Carrera S. The specs are almost identical - same power, same weight, same seating layout,... OK the Evora clearly focuses a bit more on ride and handling where the 911 focuses more on build quality and refinement but they look extremely closely matched on paper.

Yes, it's quite a challenge. Especially since there's more to car ownership than performance statistics.

Back in the day Lotus Esprit was priced to compete with TVR 350i and base Porsche 944. The later turbo Esprit was priced alongside Porsche 944 turbo and the base Porsche 911. Asking Evora to go up against 911 has always been too big an ask IMO.

Abandoning the base normally-aspirated Evora was regrettable - it should be there to compete £ for £ against the Cayman range, which starts from just £40,000. But I guess Lotus would be losing money on every car they sold, which would make no sense and underlines the whole problem.

Youcan buy a 2.7 litre 6-pot Cayman cheaper than an 1800cc 4-pot Elise. What are they thinking?

[kambites]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Youcan buy a 2.7 litre 6-pot Cayman cheaper than an 1800cc 4-pot Elise. What are they thinking?

Well to me, the Elise is a better car so that's not unreasonable; to some other people (indeed most other people) the Cayman will be a better car. That's not necessarily a problem since Lotus aim to sell a lot less Elises than Porsche do Caymans.

I completely disagree that the Evora should be trying to compete with the Cayman though. Despite the fact that it's probably the version I'd buy if I was going to get one, I personally don't think the naturally aspirated Evora should ever have existed because it's what lead to the misconception that the Evora is somehow a Cayman competitor despite having two extra seats. If they'd released the Evora as it is now I don't think anyone would even have considered comparing it to the Cayman.

If you can live with a 2-seater you'd be crazy to consider either an Evora or a 911 Carrera, IMO.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 28th July 16:14

[Vee12V]

kambites said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

Youcan buy a 2.7 litre 6-pot Cayman cheaper than an 1800cc 4-pot Elise. What are they thinking?

Well to me, the Elise is a better car so that's not unreasonable; to some other people (indeed most other people) the Cayman will be a better car. That's not necessarily a problem since Lotus aim to sell a lot less Elises than Porsche do Caymans.

I completely disagree that the Evora should be trying to compete with the Cayman though. Despite the fact that it's probably the version I'd buy if I was going to get one, I personally don't think the naturally aspirated Evora should ever have existed because it's what lead to the misconception that the Evora is somehow a Cayman competitor despite having two extra seats. If they'd released the Evora as it is now I don't think anyone would even have considered comparing it to the Cayman.

If you can live with a 2-seater you'd be crazy to consider either an Evora or a 911 Carrera, IMO.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 28th July 16:14

You can still order the 400 as a 2+0.

[kambites]

Vee12V said:

And you can still order the 400 as a 2+0.

True, and personally I think that's probably another mistake on Lotus' part not because the car doesn't provide value to the market but because it will inevitably lead to comparisons with other, cheaper, 2-seaters.

Like it or not, how good your car is is only a tiny part of what makes it a success in this sort of market. Perception is everything.


ETA: Maybe I'm wrong and this will sell well enough to drag Lotus out of their hole, but I'm not holding my breath for it as long as the media are comparing it to the cheaper, better built, more photogenic Cayman.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 28th July 16:28

[otolith]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Youcan buy a 2.7 litre 6-pot Cayman cheaper than an 1800cc 4-pot Elise. What are they thinking?

The bottom of the range Cayman is a lot slower than the top of the range Elise that it narrowly undercuts on price.