RE: Lotus Evora 400 :Driven

[IMI A]

zebra said:

IMI A said:

Truly an embarrassment of a car. Too expensive , too heavy and too ugly......

There speaks a happy Porsche driver who hasn't driven the new Evora.

Truly so f,,,ing ugly I do not need to...

[DonkeyApple]

I actually prefer the interior to that of other cars. Far less fussy and simple.

It clearly drives extremely well and is very rewarding.

I just can't like the body. It just doesn't gel and is too chunky.

This package in a more elegant wrapper would make it seem an absolute bargain at £70k.

[panickyjabofoppo]

Anyone else notice that the only time a change up the gearbox was shown from inside the car, it grated? I wonder if Autocar had a point when they quite harshly criticised the 'box.
I wish Jean-Marc Gales the best of luck. I desperately want to see Lotus building cars which compete with Porsche without allowances having to be made for the former's limited budget and relative lack of economies of scale. Perhaps that's unrealistic.

[IMI A]

DonkeyApple said:

I actually prefer the interior to that of other cars. Far less fussy and simple.

It clearly drives extremely well and is very rewarding.

I just can't like the body. It just doesn't gel and is too chunky.

This package in a more elegant wrapper would make it seem an absolute bargain at £70k.

Completely agree interior not bad at all but the body looks like its been penned by the editor of max power and halfords love child - the front end is hideous with those DRLs and gawky plasticky headlights and front PU. Where the f is the bloke that penned this?

[Dblue]

Impasse said:

Dblue said:

Agree 100%. But it would be an easier sell if lotus was a little more concerned with the basics, like getting in and out for example. But its a great car and deserves to be bought in larger numbers. We should all be totally positive about the company as they warrant our support.

Like this new fellow in charge, signs he understands what is required.

Getting in and out? That would be why the sills are lower and thinner and why the car is no more difficult to sit in than a Cayman Aston Martin Vantage.

Which makes it unique in the Lotus range after a gazillion updates on the Elise/Evora theme.I did spot that actually but its about bloody time and needs to be sorted across the range. (With the possible exception of the Exige which is a far more specialist car anyway )

[kambites]

IMI A said:

Truly so f,,,ing ugly I do not need to...

Unfortunately (for Lotus at least) this sums up the priorities of most sports car buyers. If Lotus want the sales volumes they're aiming for they need to stop focussing on how their cars drive and start focussing on how they photograph.

I actually think the Evora (at least the old one, I haven't seen a 400 yet) is a better looking car than either the 981 or the basic 991 in the metal; it just looks appalling in photographs (I'm not sure quite how Lotus managed that?) and the vast majority of Cayman buyers will never have actually seen one on the road.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 18:36

[kambites]

Dblue said:

Which makes it unique in the Lotus range after a gazillion updates on the Elise/Evora theme.I did spot that actually but its about bloody time and needs to be sorted across the range. (With the possible exception of the Exige which is a far more specialist car anyway )

I don't think the Exige is more "specialist" than the Elise these days. I suspect both the Elise and the Exige will at some point be put through a similar sill-lowering exercise.

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

Unfortunately (for Lotus at least) this sums up the priorities of most sports car buyers. If Lotus want the sales volumes they're aiming for they need to stop focussing on how their cars drive and start focussing on how they photograph.

I actually think the Evora (at least the old one, I haven't seen a 400 yet) is a better looking car than either the 981 or the basic 991 in the metal; it just looks appalling in photographs (I'm not sure quite how Lotus managed that?) and the vast majority of Cayman buyers will never have actually seen one on the road.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 18:36

I agree. The package is already special. Far mor so than any mass produced and ubiquitous Porsche product. It just needs to look special.

[Toaster]

zebra said:

Exactly.

I gave up caring what PH or Evo or others who don't own Lotus's write about their car ages ago.

I buy them, have recently purchased another one and you know what, they are utterly brilliant.

Spot on those of us who have them know we are on to something sublime I get into my Evora every day and its a little bit of motoring heaven

[Toaster]

kambites said:

I don't think the Exige is more "specialist" than the Elise these days. I suspect both the Elise and the Exige will at some point be put through a similar sill-lowering exercise.

Hmm now let me think........that was the Europa S

[kambites]

But the thing is everything the reviews about them say tends to be true.

I've never read a comparison between the Cayman and Evora which doesn't conclude that the Evora is the better car to drive (except for the gearbox and driving position). I've also never read one which doesn't conclude that the Cayman is better in most other ways and they're right. The only question is where one's priorities lie and I suspect the journalists are quite good at knowing their readership's priorities.

IMO Lotus need to make a decision. They currently probably make the best affordable, daily usable, driving enthusiasts' cars on the market. They can either stick to that small core market and sell a few hundred cars a year or they can forsake their old customers and aim at mainstream sports car buyers. They cannot, IMO, please both and attempting to do so will probably lead to pleasing neither.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 18:56

[XBOW]

Dan Trent said:

No rival can match the Evora's delicacy and feedback, the lovely wriggle of the wheel in your hands and fluidity of the passive damping a rare treat in the modern age

Praise indeed.

Dan Trent said:

And as a driving machine it has purity and feedback unmatched at any price, combining raw pace with a delicacy overtyred and overgeared Porsches can only dream of

Oops, the Porsche fanboys won't like that

Edited by XBOW on Monday 27th July 19:05

[StottyEvo]

kambites said:

StottyEvo said:

I thought these were about 1140kg Lots of steps in the right direction but still a distance to go.

The V6 Exige is about that, the Evora has always been around 1400kg.

Indeed, I've just been checking the websites.

I asked a petrolhead friend what he thinks an Evora S weighs, he stewed over the question and predicted "Between 1100-1200kgs" thank god it wasn't just me. Furthermore I asked my flat mate who doesn't know too much about cars but has a good enough idea and he predicted 1200kg.

Porsche's website shows the entry 911 weighs 1400kg unladen, how the hell have Lotus manage to make this Evora 15kg heavier

I'm very unimpressed and slightly bemused.

Edit: Three more petrolhead friends just turned up and collectively predicted 1200, with comments like "Its a Lotus is supposed to be lightweight"

It looks like Lotus have good marketing and have a light weight perception

Edited by StottyEvo on Monday 27th July 20:20

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

But the thing is everything the reviews about them say tends to be true.

I've never read a comparison between the Cayman and Evora which doesn't conclude that the Evora is the better car to drive (except for the gearbox and driving position). I've also never read one which doesn't conclude that the Cayman is better in most other ways and they're right. The only question is where one's priorities lie and I suspect the journalists are quite good at knowing their readership's priorities.

IMO Lotus need to make a decision. They currently probably make the best affordable, daily usable, driving enthusiasts' cars on the market. They can either stick to that small core market and sell a few hundred cars a year or they can forsake their old customers and aim at mainstream sports car buyers. They cannot, IMO, please both and attempting to do so will probably lead to pleasing neither.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 18:56

I disagree. The main criticism levied at the Evora is that it doesn't look as good as it could. OK a few people whinge about the price but then people whinge about the price of everything they can't afford. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other people who can afford it, as shown by all other premium marques.

Give it the right looks and it will appease all groups of potential buyers. Unless the die hard and very small Lotus fraternity consider ugliness superior to driving experience.

[kambites]

DonkeyApple said:

I disagree. The main criticism levied at the Evora is that it doesn't look as good as it could. OK a few people whinge about the price but then people whinge about the price of everything they can't afford. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other people who can afford it, as shown by all other premium marques.

Give it the right looks and it will appease all groups of potential buyers. Unless the die hard and very small Lotus fraternity consider ugliness superior to driving experience.

I think there are more serious problems there. The biggest one, the sills, they've addressed but they still need perceived engineering quality to match the Germans and that means things like custom designed switch gear, properly integrated custom (or at least custom looking) ICE, etc. which isn't cheap. I'm not sure they can really get away with chasing Porsche with a GRP body either because whilst it may be a superior engineering solution, in the minds of the general populous it screams "kit car".

They also need to sort out their CO2 ratings to appear to BIK conscious company car buyers and that realistically probably means turbo-charging.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 19:15

[9mm]

Too much money for what looks like a kit. I suppose they'll sell to a few loyal buyers but it's no threat to Porsche or anyone else.

[moribund]

kambites said:

But the thing is everything the reviews about them say tends to be true.

I've never read a comparison between the Cayman and Evora which doesn't conclude that the Evora is the better car to drive (except for the gearbox and driving position). I've also never read one which doesn't conclude that the Cayman is better in most other ways and they're right. The only question is where one's priorities lie and I suspect the journalists are quite good at knowing their readership's priorities.

IMO Lotus need to make a decision. They currently probably make the best affordable, daily usable, driving enthusiasts' cars on the market. They can either stick to that small core market and sell a few hundred cars a year or they can forsake their old customers and aim at mainstream sports car buyers. They cannot, IMO, please both and attempting to do so will probably lead to pleasing neither.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 18:56

The bit I keep coming back to is just how few cars Lotus actually need to sell globally to get back into profit. The bulk of development costs for the whole range were spent years ago, so they only need to sell a few (less than 5) thousand per year.

IMHO this car is different enough to the competition (which is what? Cayman, F Type and 911S - can't think of anything else) and drives so well that the barriers to a keen driver not buying one are now much reduced. If the showstoppers are knocked down then there are probably enough buyers who want to stand out as different for Lotus to make a profit and thereby secure investment for the future.

If you want the best car to drive, buy the Lotus. If you want the car which looks most like a "supercar" out in the wild, buy the Lotus. If you want a sportscar which isn't a Porsche then buy the Lotus. Don't under estimate the number of people who would buy it simply because it's NOT a Porsche, no matter how good the buttons are.

[kambites]

moribund said:

The bit I keep coming back to is just how few cars Lotus actually need to sell globally to get back into profit. The bulk of development costs for the whole range were spent years ago, so they only need to sell a few (less than 5) thousand per year.

True but they probably can't keep selling the same cars indefinitely.

I think the biggest problem they seem to have with selling the Evora at the moment is that 90% of sports car buyers simply don't know it exists and 99% have never seen one in the metal. They need proper advertising and they need dealers.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 19:18

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

DonkeyApple said:

I disagree. The main criticism levied at the Evora is that it doesn't look as good as it could. OK a few people whinge about the price but then people whinge about the price of everything they can't afford. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other people who can afford it, as shown by all other premium marques.

Give it the right looks and it will appease all groups of potential buyers. Unless the die hard and very small Lotus fraternity consider ugliness superior to driving experience.

I think there are more serious problems there. The biggest one, the sills, they've addressed but they still need perceived engineering quality to match the Germans and that means things like custom designed switch gear, properly integrated custom (or at least custom looking) ICE, etc. which isn't cheap. I'm not sure they can really get away with chasing Porsche with a GRP body either because whilst it may be a superior engineering solution, in the minds of the general populous it screams "kit car".

They also need to sort out their CO2 ratings to appear to BIK conscious company car buyers and that realistically probably means turbo-charging.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th July 19:15

Certainly if they wanted to get sales volumes right up at the levels of their competitors and then I think you are right that the product would end up just another practical, not very special car.

But givin it proper good looks would massively increase sales from their current levels without compromising any of the current ability. just making it look serious and aspirational will make it a dirt cheap supercar.

[topless360]

It looks like they've stolen the air vents from a Ford Fiesta.

1400kg is also a lot for a Lotus. I was initially interested in the Evora 400 after having a sit in one at Goodwood, it's an alternative option to a 911 that is still a consideration for me but it's not a slam dunk by any means.