RE: Every Land Rover in a day
Discussion
skyrover said:
.
Personally I am going for a soft spring on the back of my 110 with an air-helper bag for carrying heavy loads.
http://www.flatdoguk.com/air-lift-adjustable-air-h...
Exactly the setup I'm already using in my 110 - though the next update will be full air springs from a DAF truck....Personally I am going for a soft spring on the back of my 110 with an air-helper bag for carrying heavy loads.
http://www.flatdoguk.com/air-lift-adjustable-air-h...
Edited by skyrover on Wednesday 29th July 08:53
I learnt to drive at the age of 10 on a field in a 101 FC. The clutch was so heavy my dad had to help push my left leg down. I was hooked from that day on.
I have a Heritage on order and (as with everyone else) I can't wait to get it. I look forward to sitting in my garage and just admiring its brilliance and beauty.
I have a Heritage on order and (as with everyone else) I can't wait to get it. I look forward to sitting in my garage and just admiring its brilliance and beauty.
anglophile said:
A sad comment from some "designer" with no sense of history. The most famous vehicle from a company of famous vehicles, being reduced to trips to the shops with car seats. The march to market to the well-heeled is now complete. We shall all be the poorer because of it. He cannot say that we haven't spoken.
So assuming they weren't being discontinued, who would actually buy new Defenders? Farmers gave up on ten years ago and there are much better cars out there for going off road and travelling on it which most of us do most of the time. Only people buying them are doing so for nostalgic reasons and that's not a good enough reason for them to keep making them. They have become the off road equivalent of an ash framed Morgan. I celebrate the reinvention of Land Rover and the face they are doing better than ever. I doubt I'd buy an Evoke, Discovery sport, RR sport or FFRR as they appeal to the wrong sort of people. However, I love my proper Disco and if that goes all chavvy in the future, I may have the new Defender or whatever it's called to fall back on.
Max_Torque said:
GerryMcGovern said:
The current Defender has never sold on its design
er, what? Is he on drugs, or just so far up his own, perfectly designed ass that he has lost touch with reality??I think he might be confusing good design with "fashion" tbh.
A defender is a TRIUMPH of design. Form follows function in every single part, no additional tat added "just for the sake of it" unlike the current product portfolio......
At no point during the development of the Defender did anyone stop and say:
"Hold on chaps, don't we need a few more LED lights to bling it up a bit? oh, and don't worry about designing and developing the transfer box, no one will use low range anyway"
The single reason the Defender HAS been so long lived and versatile is because its DESIGN was so honest in the first place and it suited its target buyer perfectly.
Yes, it is time for a new one, but to sweep the last one under the carpet with simply a "it's not very blingy is it now" statement is frankly, rather disrespectful to the people who worked so hard to keep the Defender a leader in its market for so long.
And, although styling is subjective, i can't believe i'm the only one to think that the Defender 90 is perfectly proportioned, and is a unique design. Compare that to say the new disco, which looks like every other generic mid sized 4x4 these days!
And finally, if the current defender is so badly designed, how come JLR has been working, unsuccessfully, on its replacement for about 20 years now?? Surely Mr McGovern can just knock up something over lunch in the Gaydon Canteen with a couple of crayons and bingo, "new defender" is done............
Edited by Max_Torque on Tuesday 28th July 19:31
I would treat it as an industrial design and give the engineers free reign. Making the end result look like a proper Landy shouldn't be hard at all, it's not far from a box on wheels.
lostkiwi said:
skyrover said:
.
Personally I am going for a soft spring on the back of my 110 with an air-helper bag for carrying heavy loads.
http://www.flatdoguk.com/air-lift-adjustable-air-h...
Exactly the setup I'm already using in my 110 - though the next update will be full air springs from a DAF truck....Personally I am going for a soft spring on the back of my 110 with an air-helper bag for carrying heavy loads.
http://www.flatdoguk.com/air-lift-adjustable-air-h...
Edited by skyrover on Wednesday 29th July 08:53
I am torn between a full air and a helper setup.
BlackPrince said:
Maldini35 said:
I am late to party in that I bought my first Landie a year ago.
It's a 1981 Series 3 SWB.
Slow, noisy, uncomfortable.
It's probably my favourite car out of all I've ever owned (although my 964 C2 pushes it very close)
So easy to work on too - perfect for a muppet like me.
It's definitely a keeper.
Great article PH! It's a 1981 Series 3 SWB.
Slow, noisy, uncomfortable.
It's probably my favourite car out of all I've ever owned (although my 964 C2 pushes it very close)
So easy to work on too - perfect for a muppet like me.
It's definitely a keeper.
Mind if I ask why the Landie is your favourite car, given that from your car history profile you've owned some brilliant ones?
Like is it something specific or more ineffable and abstract?
I love my Landie for a number of reasons I guess.
The driving experience is so basic and agricultural, you really have to concentrate when driving. This makes a refreshing change from the modern stuff I drive most days. I love the fact that I can't really break it - well, I can't do any expensive damage. I can tinker all I like without worrying. I find working on cars fun but I'm really bad at it. The Landie is lke a giant mechanno set so much less scary than working on a highly strung sports car.
Lastly, my car didn't cost much, £1200 on eBay. From experience I agree with Colin Goodwin who maintains that the enjoyment you get from a car is inversely proportional to how much it cost you.
Edited by Maldini35 on Thursday 30th July 22:34
oldtimer2 said:
The Land Rover sold on function, as an off road vehicle able to tow stuff first and foremost. When McGovern says "design" he refers to the work they do in the design studio - the visual appeal both interior and exterior. He is very good at his job.
Although some here decry his work, he has in fact been responsible for the most successful "designs" produced by the Land Rover business, notably the Freelander, Range Rover Sport, the Evoque, the new generation RR and RR Sport and the new Discovery Sport. These are the vehicles that have kept Land Rover in business. Last year Range Rovers accounted for c70% of total Land Rover volumes, the Defender just c5%. The income and profits generated by Range Rovers, in all their forms, has and is paying for the renewal of the whole JLR business providing life support for the Defender and, I suspect, Jaguar too.
Re the new Discovery Sport it too is a perfectly proportioned vehicle in its two main elements, as is the new Range Rover Sport.
Absolutely spot on. Without McGovern's sense of proportion with design then I feel JLR would have gone to the wall many moons ago; there's a reason they're so desirable despite their (perhaps warranted) reputation for reliability. Many on here seem to be forgetting that the main reason the Defender is ceasing production is that it does not meet increasingly stringent regulations. The designers job is to meet all these requirements (e.g: - the size of headlights, heights of bumpers, minimum radius of bends, position of indicators to name but a few), whilst simultaneously trying to design an aerodynamically efficient shape which will deliver an NCAP score of 5 and also be practical, desirable, and perform both on and off road. The Defender currently fails on three out of six of these markers. The Discovery Sport, and most of the modern range, hits all six.Although some here decry his work, he has in fact been responsible for the most successful "designs" produced by the Land Rover business, notably the Freelander, Range Rover Sport, the Evoque, the new generation RR and RR Sport and the new Discovery Sport. These are the vehicles that have kept Land Rover in business. Last year Range Rovers accounted for c70% of total Land Rover volumes, the Defender just c5%. The income and profits generated by Range Rovers, in all their forms, has and is paying for the renewal of the whole JLR business providing life support for the Defender and, I suspect, Jaguar too.
Re the new Discovery Sport it too is a perfectly proportioned vehicle in its two main elements, as is the new Range Rover Sport.
The Defender is dead. Time to mourn, grieve, and then move on; but I for one anticipate that whatever comes next will be another big win for JLR. Upsetting a few beards (who lets face it, probably wouldn't be in the market for a new car anyway) simply isn't an issue.
wormus said:
So assuming they weren't being discontinued, who would actually buy new Defenders? Farmers gave up on ten years ago and there are much better cars out there for going off road and travelling on it which most of us do most of the time. Only people buying them are doing so for nostalgic reasons and that's not a good enough reason for them to keep making them. They have become the off road equivalent of an ash framed Morgan.
I celebrate the reinvention of Land Rover and the face they are doing better than ever. I doubt I'd buy an Evoke, Discovery sport, RR sport or FFRR as they appeal to the wrong sort of people. However, I love my proper Disco and if that goes all chavvy in the future, I may have the new Defender or whatever it's called to fall back on.
As one of the "wrong sort of people" (I own a Range Rover Sport) I should point out that the 90/110, later the Defender, and the first Discovery were both based on the classic Range Rover`s coil spring based chassis. In short the three products shared much of their fundamental technology under the skin. The visible external bits were there to attempt to meet three very different markets - which the Range Rover, the Discovery and the Land Rover aimed to do. I celebrate the reinvention of Land Rover and the face they are doing better than ever. I doubt I'd buy an Evoke, Discovery sport, RR sport or FFRR as they appeal to the wrong sort of people. However, I love my proper Disco and if that goes all chavvy in the future, I may have the new Defender or whatever it's called to fall back on.
From what has been said, it seems to me that JLR`s product strategy going forward is fundamentally the same but with the important difference that Range Rover and Discovery lines are expanded to offer both bigger and smaller sizes; but they all share significant technology and components with each other. The third line, to replace the Defender, is described by JLR as a dual purpose vehicle (which the Land Rover has always been). I take this to mean that it will set out both to serve as a work horse and when off duty. Over time McGovern has hinted that it too will come in different sizes.
The best contemporary examples of dual purpose vehicles are the US pick up trucks sold by Ford (such as the F-150, the biggest selling vehicle in the USA) GM and Dodge. These do duty as working vehicles, as daily drivers, and as family vehicles in crew cab form. The flat bed behind is used to stow purchases from builder`s merchant or the trail bike. The US makers offer many ingenious accessories and options to add to their appeal. They offer a good source of ideas for design of a pick up truck.
The product engineering required to produce an effective all-terrain vehicle is fundamentally the same for the three Land Rover product lines. The differences are and will be how the designs built on that engineering platform are adapted to meet three very different market segments. McGovern is on record as saying "design is the differentiator". I agree with him. Based on their track record, the people at JLR know what they are doing.
Cfnteabag said:
mightymouse said:
Good read that.
One question though.....
What are the likes of the MOD and all the other firms/company's that used to have Defenders going to have instead ?
MOD Land Rovers in service till 2030 and I believe that the reason for extended production of the Defender is due to massive orders from power companies etc getting theirs in before the end!One question though.....
What are the likes of the MOD and all the other firms/company's that used to have Defenders going to have instead ?
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