Hot hatch advice please!
Discussion
You're comparing a high revving N/A car to a turbocharged car. The turbo will provide a larger sensation of speed.
my 2penneth.
If you're desperate for sub 5 to 60.
Get a Subaru Impreza WRX with the PPP pack for the weekends. In standard for with 220hp it runs 5.5 to 60. with the PPP I'll be surprised it isn't 5, or below.
5k will get you into a tidy one.
For the daily drive, buy a diesel car. Even something like leasing would be better than running a petrol car for 25k. At the moment diesel is cheaper than petrol, and a 1.9PD engine will do what, 40mpg round town? 60 on a run?
That would be what I would do. Bear in mind that running 2 cars will be pricey, but less pricey than running a highly modified S3 as a daily. It's asking for trouble. Even a standard one is over 5k.
If you REALLY want an S3; forget it and buy a LCR. Same engine, but has 4 pot Brembo's. They're also cheaper to buy in the first place. (And 03 plate with 90k is up for £3,200 near me)
my 2penneth.
If you're desperate for sub 5 to 60.
Get a Subaru Impreza WRX with the PPP pack for the weekends. In standard for with 220hp it runs 5.5 to 60. with the PPP I'll be surprised it isn't 5, or below.
5k will get you into a tidy one.
For the daily drive, buy a diesel car. Even something like leasing would be better than running a petrol car for 25k. At the moment diesel is cheaper than petrol, and a 1.9PD engine will do what, 40mpg round town? 60 on a run?
That would be what I would do. Bear in mind that running 2 cars will be pricey, but less pricey than running a highly modified S3 as a daily. It's asking for trouble. Even a standard one is over 5k.
If you REALLY want an S3; forget it and buy a LCR. Same engine, but has 4 pot Brembo's. They're also cheaper to buy in the first place. (And 03 plate with 90k is up for £3,200 near me)
300bhp/ton said:
At the age of 24 with what sounds like no commitments. A hatchback of any sort if not the kind of car I'd be looking at.
Remember FWD only really exists to maximise interior space (to make the vehicle more practical) and manufacturing costs.
Of course there have been some good and even great FWD cars. But as a rule 99% of them are pretty dull and all look 100% dull, especially if they are a hatch back.
For £5k there are all sorts of amazingly fun and varied vehicles.
When you need something more practical or dynamically compromised - then look at a hatch, if you must.
Thanks for the post. Initially I was going to run 1 car which meant I needed the practicality of a hatch as I have a dog and give a lot of lifts to people. Now I have decided to keep the 306 for the boring the stuff the options are wide open. What would you suggest as a top 5 or 10 cars to consider with no restrictions and 5k. Remember FWD only really exists to maximise interior space (to make the vehicle more practical) and manufacturing costs.
Of course there have been some good and even great FWD cars. But as a rule 99% of them are pretty dull and all look 100% dull, especially if they are a hatch back.
For £5k there are all sorts of amazingly fun and varied vehicles.
When you need something more practical or dynamically compromised - then look at a hatch, if you must.
Im very tempted by an mx5 Ive seen parked up. Its missing a window and the bodywork is rough as toast but it's meant to be mechanically sound and the owner wants £400 for it. Doubt it will give me the speed Im after though.
Again, with reliability in mind, what about the Mazda 3 MPS? There are Aero versions (body kit and lowering springs as standard) available for £5k with lower miles now. Some nice DC2 Integra Type Rs as well, or an RX8 231 (ideally a PZ) . They won't do under 5 seconds to 60 but, seriously, you won't care when you're driving either. There's also a few Alfa GTV 3.2 V6s at the price on PH. Or one S2000, though that seems very cheap for one?
Blanchimont said:
You're comparing a high revving N/A car to a turbocharged car. The turbo will provide a larger sensation of speed.
my 2penneth.
If you're desperate for sub 5 to 60.
Get a Subaru Impreza WRX with the PPP pack for the weekends. In standard for with 220hp it runs 5.5 to 60. with the PPP I'll be surprised it isn't 5, or below.
5k will get you into a tidy one.
For the daily drive, buy a diesel car. Even something like leasing would be better than running a petrol car for 25k. At the moment diesel is cheaper than petrol, and a 1.9PD engine will do what, 40mpg round town? 60 on a run?
That would be what I would do. Bear in mind that running 2 cars will be pricey, but less pricey than running a highly modified S3 as a daily. It's asking for trouble. Even a standard one is over 5k.
If you REALLY want an S3; forget it and buy a LCR. Same engine, but has 4 pot Brembo's. They're also cheaper to buy in the first place. (And 03 plate with 90k is up for £3,200 near me)
Impreza is a good shout. Love the speed and the drive but the image is a bit of a turn off. Im right in the age to fit a sterotype that Im not really fond of. I might just stomach it but Id like to explore other options first. my 2penneth.
If you're desperate for sub 5 to 60.
Get a Subaru Impreza WRX with the PPP pack for the weekends. In standard for with 220hp it runs 5.5 to 60. with the PPP I'll be surprised it isn't 5, or below.
5k will get you into a tidy one.
For the daily drive, buy a diesel car. Even something like leasing would be better than running a petrol car for 25k. At the moment diesel is cheaper than petrol, and a 1.9PD engine will do what, 40mpg round town? 60 on a run?
That would be what I would do. Bear in mind that running 2 cars will be pricey, but less pricey than running a highly modified S3 as a daily. It's asking for trouble. Even a standard one is over 5k.
If you REALLY want an S3; forget it and buy a LCR. Same engine, but has 4 pot Brembo's. They're also cheaper to buy in the first place. (And 03 plate with 90k is up for £3,200 near me)
As a daily, the 306 is good enough. Gets me comfortably over 500 miles a tank every time and I get a fuel allowance which goes some way towards covering petrol costs and is slow enough to keep me out of trouble. Also, I have fleet insurance so the only major downside of running 2 cars is tax and maintenance. With the high maintenance car doing low mileage, those costs are mitigated too.
I'll have a look into the Cupra R but IMO the S3 looks so much better. For the money though, I wouldnt mind the ugly sister.
purplenoise said:
Impreza is a good shout. Love the speed and the drive but the image is a bit of a turn off. Im right in the age to fit a sterotype that Im not really fond of. I might just stomach it but Id like to explore other options first.
As a daily, the 306 is good enough. Gets me comfortably over 500 miles a tank every time and I get a fuel allowance which goes some way towards covering petrol costs and is slow enough to keep me out of trouble. Also, I have fleet insurance so the only major downside of running 2 cars is tax and maintenance. With the high maintenance car doing low mileage, those costs are mitigated too.
I'll have a look into the Cupra R but IMO the S3 looks so much better. For the money though, I wouldnt mind the ugly sister.
The looks are entirely subjective, but IMO for the better brakes, and the cost saving I would get an Cupra. Plus the S3 uses a Haldex system, which is front biased anyway. As a daily, the 306 is good enough. Gets me comfortably over 500 miles a tank every time and I get a fuel allowance which goes some way towards covering petrol costs and is slow enough to keep me out of trouble. Also, I have fleet insurance so the only major downside of running 2 cars is tax and maintenance. With the high maintenance car doing low mileage, those costs are mitigated too.
I'll have a look into the Cupra R but IMO the S3 looks so much better. For the money though, I wouldnt mind the ugly sister.
I've been looking at WRX's and the image doesn't bother me. If it did, we would all drive German marques... oh wait.
I'm kidding, but the image is only reinforced when it's driven like a cock. If you drive it sensibly people don't take as much notice. Plus, it means that they're bargains because some people can look past the badge.
An S3 for a weekend car isn't that great to be honest. As is a Leon, they're more rapid dailies.
For a weekend car, I would look at something like a 350z or even a TVR, keeping the 306 for the daily grind.
Ali_T said:
Again, with reliability in mind, what about the Mazda 3 MPS? There are Aero versions (body kit and lowering springs as standard) available for £5k with lower miles now. Some nice DC2 Integra Type Rs as well, or an RX8 231 (ideally a PZ) . They won't do under 5 seconds to 60 but, seriously, you won't care when you're driving either. There's also a few Alfa GTV 3.2 V6s at the price on PH. Or one S2000, though that seems very cheap for one?
Thanks for the posts,Ive never been in a Type R but Ive heard wonderful things about the mythical vtec engines and fwd handling. I'll look into the MPS; am I right in assuming that being a Mazda it will be pretty bulletproof as well? What is the handling like on those? I know Mazda are the people behind the fabled mx5 but they also make some of the dullest ugliest machines known to man. I have been a passenger in an rx8 PZ and all I remember is insane amounts of grip lol, I have no idea how fast it was actually was but it definitely felt fast. It had worse fuel economy than a 645ci though.
As much as I love the alfa v6s I'd rather wait until I can afford to have one as a pampered garage queen rather than something to rag around and track from time to time.
The Audi will be a nice car.
I would get a GTI now but in the past I would have probably bought the S3.
Or I would get a Clio Trophy if I wanted something a bit smaller but not for 25k.
You are focusing on performance and will probably want to get that out your system and then want something with a bit more feel etc.
Then you will be looking at a Megane, Subaru, Clio or Integra.
I like the oldest shape S3 the best looks wise but its probably just as they were still out when I passed my test.
None of the S3s for 5k will be that fast compared to any of the modern hatches either.
I would get a GTI now but in the past I would have probably bought the S3.
Or I would get a Clio Trophy if I wanted something a bit smaller but not for 25k.
You are focusing on performance and will probably want to get that out your system and then want something with a bit more feel etc.
Then you will be looking at a Megane, Subaru, Clio or Integra.
I like the oldest shape S3 the best looks wise but its probably just as they were still out when I passed my test.
None of the S3s for 5k will be that fast compared to any of the modern hatches either.
purplenoise said:
Impreza is a good shout. Love the speed and the drive but the image is a bit of a turn off. Im right in the age to fit a sterotype that Im not really fond of. I might just stomach it but Id like to explore other options first.
I think the image of an S3 drag racing from the lights is a bigger stereotype turn-off! Seeing an Imprezza (classic shape in Type- R form) on a nice B-road is quite a joy.OP clearly wants the S3 for the image and is waiting for us to justify it.
Your confusing torque (and the feeling of being fast) with actual speed. My impreza was never even slightly bothered by S3s, especially 5 grand ones.
I'm not convinced M3 is the answered, but I would absolutely be looking at a Type RA impreza or a Series McRae, neither have the wings and bodykit image problem.
Your confusing torque (and the feeling of being fast) with actual speed. My impreza was never even slightly bothered by S3s, especially 5 grand ones.
I'm not convinced M3 is the answered, but I would absolutely be looking at a Type RA impreza or a Series McRae, neither have the wings and bodykit image problem.
KarlMac said:
OP clearly wants the S3 for the image and is waiting for us to justify it.
Your confusing torque (and the feeling of being fast) with actual speed. My impreza was never even slightly bothered by S3s, especially 5 grand ones.
I'm not convinced M3 is the answered, but I would absolutely be looking at a Type RA impreza or a Series McRae, neither have the wings and bodykit image problem.
Isn't the image of an old S3 pretty much in the "failed drug dealer" category?Your confusing torque (and the feeling of being fast) with actual speed. My impreza was never even slightly bothered by S3s, especially 5 grand ones.
I'm not convinced M3 is the answered, but I would absolutely be looking at a Type RA impreza or a Series McRae, neither have the wings and bodykit image problem.
Blanchimont said:
The looks are entirely subjective, but IMO for the better brakes, and the cost saving I would get an Cupra. Plus the S3 uses a Haldex system, which is front biased anyway.
I've been looking at WRX's and the image doesn't bother me. If it did, we would all drive German marques... oh wait.
I'm kidding, but the image is only reinforced when it's driven like a cock. If you drive it sensibly people don't take as much notice. Plus, it means that they're bargains because some people can look past the badge.
An S3 for a weekend car isn't that great to be honest. As is a Leon, they're more rapid dailies.
For a weekend car, I would look at something like a 350z or even a TVR, keeping the 306 for the daily grind.
The scooby is definitely worth a look. I'll see what I can find. I have a friend who crashed a WRX backwards into a tree at 80mph, spoiler went straight through the back window. He was probably driving like a cock at the time but Ive been kinda scared of them ever since. Irrational? Maybe. Still scary though. I've been looking at WRX's and the image doesn't bother me. If it did, we would all drive German marques... oh wait.
I'm kidding, but the image is only reinforced when it's driven like a cock. If you drive it sensibly people don't take as much notice. Plus, it means that they're bargains because some people can look past the badge.
An S3 for a weekend car isn't that great to be honest. As is a Leon, they're more rapid dailies.
For a weekend car, I would look at something like a 350z or even a TVR, keeping the 306 for the daily grind.
An S3 for a weekend car isnt that great. A Porsche baiting, M3 spanking S3 for a weekend car sounds pretty fun though
I could never do a 350z, it just screams chest wig and fake tan with that horrible shade of brown/orannge and I every time I see one I hear a nasally American accent calling it a zee car. Love the concept of a simple powerful rwd car though, just hate the execution of it.
TVR would be a dream but for 5k?
KarlMac said:
Ali_T said:
Isn't the image of an old S3 pretty much in the "failed drug dealer" category?
That, or Bank of Mum & Dad, depending on age of driver and whether a 'snapback' is visible.Honestly though, I have all but abandoned the s3 as an option, it's just a benchmark for the kind of performance I am after.
KarlMac said:
OP clearly wants the S3 for the image and is waiting for us to justify it.
Your confusing torque (and the feeling of being fast) with actual speed. My impreza was never even slightly bothered by S3s, especially 5 grand ones.
I'm not convinced M3 is the answered, but I would absolutely be looking at a Type RA impreza or a Series McRae, neither have the wings and bodykit image problem.
The m3 I tested was really nice but the roof got stuck half way and the mechanic who came out basically said they are an absolute ballache to put right when anything goes wrong. Also the SMG box was really sluggish in auto mode but perfect on the paddles. Had the same problem with a smart fortwo cdi I bought to sell on and a gearbox specialist said the clutch/clutch actuator could be on the way out. Cant imagine what that would cost to put right on an SMG box. Your confusing torque (and the feeling of being fast) with actual speed. My impreza was never even slightly bothered by S3s, especially 5 grand ones.
I'm not convinced M3 is the answered, but I would absolutely be looking at a Type RA impreza or a Series McRae, neither have the wings and bodykit image problem.
The Impreza is option I never thought of. I will definitely look into it now. What is the best way to sift the gems from the thrashed out dogs? Or are they generally alright after a life of abuse? Is there anything major to look out for?
0-60 in four seconds makes for a very fast car. I would stop focusing on 0-60 times and focus on having fun instead.
If you’re set on a hot hatchback as someone else has already suggested a Civic Type R with suitable modifications and a K100 remap can be taken to around 240BHP while maintaining its Honda reliability. Modify it further by adding a set of decent tyres, lowering springs and a FRSU; and you’ve got an incredibly fun and fast little car. Try one out as they’re not the most refined cars so you may find for 25K P/A it becomes a little tiring.
For something more refined a Golf GTI MKV or Mazda 3 MPS is where I would be looking. The Golf out-of-the-box isn’t a particularly fast car but with suitable modifications they can be improved. The Mazda 3 MPS with just a remap would be pushing around 300BHP. And apart from the fuel economy I would be more than happy to cover 25K P/A in one as they’re amazingly refined with an array of toys inside.
If you’re now not fussed about it being a hatchback you’ve got a wealth of possibilities. Honda S2000, a kit car like a Locost or Caterham, Honda Integra Type R, Vauxhall VX220 or a Lotus Elise. Before looking at cars I would suggest getting a clear idea of what you actually want and not rushing into anything. Good luck and keep us update on what you get!
If you’re set on a hot hatchback as someone else has already suggested a Civic Type R with suitable modifications and a K100 remap can be taken to around 240BHP while maintaining its Honda reliability. Modify it further by adding a set of decent tyres, lowering springs and a FRSU; and you’ve got an incredibly fun and fast little car. Try one out as they’re not the most refined cars so you may find for 25K P/A it becomes a little tiring.
For something more refined a Golf GTI MKV or Mazda 3 MPS is where I would be looking. The Golf out-of-the-box isn’t a particularly fast car but with suitable modifications they can be improved. The Mazda 3 MPS with just a remap would be pushing around 300BHP. And apart from the fuel economy I would be more than happy to cover 25K P/A in one as they’re amazingly refined with an array of toys inside.
If you’re now not fussed about it being a hatchback you’ve got a wealth of possibilities. Honda S2000, a kit car like a Locost or Caterham, Honda Integra Type R, Vauxhall VX220 or a Lotus Elise. Before looking at cars I would suggest getting a clear idea of what you actually want and not rushing into anything. Good luck and keep us update on what you get!
M3....forget an SMG version And a convertible, a manual coupe is The one to buy.
Re the MX5, they are superb, did lots of miles in a late 90s 1.6, fantastic chassis, another car when thrown into a bend it just goes where you point it and No understeer either. The chassis will take far more power.
Re TVRs.....if you want something that will still blow the doors off of lots of far newer modern fast cars a Griff 500 slightly tweaked and with just 1,060 KGs is simply devastating to 100, but a decent Griff 500 will be £15 grand plus. £ 5 grand will still just find you a tired Chimeara 400, but you need to be hands on / handy with spanners with TVRs, but values are rising. £5 grand will buy a 350i wedge TVR.
Re the MX5, they are superb, did lots of miles in a late 90s 1.6, fantastic chassis, another car when thrown into a bend it just goes where you point it and No understeer either. The chassis will take far more power.
Re TVRs.....if you want something that will still blow the doors off of lots of far newer modern fast cars a Griff 500 slightly tweaked and with just 1,060 KGs is simply devastating to 100, but a decent Griff 500 will be £15 grand plus. £ 5 grand will still just find you a tired Chimeara 400, but you need to be hands on / handy with spanners with TVRs, but values are rising. £5 grand will buy a 350i wedge TVR.
purplenoise said:
So...I went to test drive an M3 convertible yesterday evening after the chat on here. It actually felt kind of slow compared to the S3. I gave my mate a call and he said he had easily beaten M3s in both the S3 and VXR.
Do you honestly believe everything your mate tells you?In standard form a E46 M3 manual is over 5 seconds quicker to 100mph than a 2005-09 Astra VXR.
I understand that your mate's car isn't likely to be standard but realistically you will need to clear 300hp +LSD + good tyres but even then according to VXR owners club there are owners with 300+ HP that are still high 13.X to 14s which is still slower than a M3.
purplenoise said:
The Impreza is option I never thought of. I will definitely look into it now. What is the best way to sift the gems from the thrashed out dogs? Or are they generally alright after a life of abuse? Is there anything major to look out for?
Mecahnically you want a full service history which shows as many oil changes as possible. Minimum once a year.On newage (bug eye onwards) shocks are bad for knocking, which there is no real fix for. Changing for KYBs can prolong time between changes though.
Older EJ20s can suffer from piston slap, which should go away when warm.
The main thing to check for is rust. Rear arches and sills. They're a nightmare for it.
Check Scoobynet or 22b for cars. Or speak to Max @ Hurst Cars who will sort you a fresh import (best option imo).
purplenoise said:
The scooby is definitely worth a look. I'll see what I can find. I have a friend who crashed a WRX backwards into a tree at 80mph, spoiler went straight through the back window. He was probably driving like a cock at the time but Ive been kinda scared of them ever since. Irrational? Maybe. Still scary though.
An S3 for a weekend car isnt that great. A Porsche baiting, M3 spanking S3 for a weekend car sounds pretty fun though
I could never do a 350z, it just screams chest wig and fake tan with that horrible shade of brown/orannge and I every time I see one I hear a nasally American accent calling it a zee car. Love the concept of a simple powerful rwd car though, just hate the execution of it.
TVR would be a dream but for 5k?
Get it in a nice colour then? Orange ones are very marmite, but in a nice blue/grey. An S3 for a weekend car isnt that great. A Porsche baiting, M3 spanking S3 for a weekend car sounds pretty fun though
I could never do a 350z, it just screams chest wig and fake tan with that horrible shade of brown/orannge and I every time I see one I hear a nasally American accent calling it a zee car. Love the concept of a simple powerful rwd car though, just hate the execution of it.
TVR would be a dream but for 5k?
No matter how "fast" an S3 is, it's still an ageing hatchback. and a highly modified car, regardless of age/mileage what's done to it will need a lot of money spent on it keeping it running.
A tidy, well kept sports car will cost peanuts (in comparison) but you'll have more style.
To be honest, I see more cocks driving A3/S3 Audi's than I do people driving like knobs in any of the naughties Jap stuff. That includes stuff like Silvia's, 200SX's and Skylines as well as the Subaru's.
As previously said, I think you want approval to buy an S3, not other opinions.
No matter how much you polish it and add go-faster bits. The S3 is still a hatchback, and a dated one at that. A choice sports car (even a boxster) will be worth more standard than a heavily modified S3. A boxster will always have a market, A heavily tuned S3 will have people with a similar taste in cars as you chasing it, which will be fewer.
Your choice, but if it were me I would be spending money on a well sorted sports car before any modified car, let alone an S3.
ETA: When telling people what car you drive, instead of an Audi S3, surely saying something like a Porsche Boxster or 350z will get more interest. And if it's a lady, how many do you know that would see it, see that it's been slammed and played with, and just walk away? Compared to a 350/Boxster where it may make the difference?
Edited by Blanchimont on Wednesday 29th July 13:54
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