Hot hatch advice please!
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
The thing for those three is that the Renault Megane R26 has them covered, I used to have a Focus as a track toy & will happily say it's the sharpest hot hatch but will say it's on a par with most the engine is a peach especially if you get it breathing right(exhaust) the Astra is the straight line king but still corners okay,the Civic is sharper but the ST's torque will mean it'll be right there on a B road but the Megane will be ahead of the lot, remember this is the car that beats all hot hatches & 130-135i's when it comes to handling ride & driving.
OP test drive them & see what floats your boat.
Isn't the Megane R26 well outside the original posters £5k budget though?OP test drive them & see what floats your boat.
As the hatchback requirement is out the window what about an MR2 Turbo. Rev 3,4,5 all came with 240 as standard and hit 60 in 5.2. 90s tuning, I.e upgraded filter, exhaust, intercooler and a boost tweet to 16psi sees 300bhp and 60 in under 5 secs. So they can launch like a 4wd car but then don't suffer the extra trans losses which means the can run in the 12s for the quarter mile.
GTID said:
DS197 said:
vtecyo said:
purplenoise said:
Yeah none of them are that quick when they are stock. I dont mind modding whatever I get to get the performance out of it. Potential is more important than what it does out the box, as long as I can get the car and mods done for 5-5.5k
Interesting summary of the cars though, thanks for the insight!
Civic Type R then (EP3). 250bhp from a N/A unit that revs like the K20 is actually quite special.Interesting summary of the cars though, thanks for the insight!
For 250bhp you'll need:
Exhaust incl manifold
Inlet manifold (RBC is a common one)
Intake
K100 remap.
With the tweakery listed above, I'd expect 240, quite easily.
fivepointnine said:
Isn't the Megane R26 well outside the original posters £5k budget though?
True but these aren't & were still rated as the best handling hot hatches.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
rb5er said:
billy939 said:
Claim "Performance stats" all you want. I have driven all four of these cars, 2 of which I owned, extensively.
From rolling starts, standing starts, in the corners and with us all driving each others cars to see if it's the driver.
On a straight road and in standard form the Astra is the quickest, then shortly behind is the Civic, then the Focus. From a rolling start the Civic is behind in the same gear, use the gearbox and that changes. There is not much in it but that's how it is.
That grey focus had a MP260 upgrade and then it was far quicker but that's not comparing fairly.
Through the corners the Civic is leagues ahead. The Focus is wallowy and feels really uneasy when it has to change direction quickly. The Astra has shocking steering feel but actually handles okay if you aren't an oaf with the accelerator. The Civic has an amount of understeer but its predictable and you can get the back to move around much easier than the other two.
All 3 owners of these cars agree on this it's not just me. The focus owner admits the Civic is quicker over a windy road, but he prefers his focus as it has a lazier style to its power delivery, the torque is nice and he prefers the looks.
I disagree with you on nearly every point, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to think after covering a lot of miles in each of the cars that my opinion is pretty valid
Haha. In 2007 I bought myself a focus ST, a friend bought a VXR and another bought an FN2. All brand new.From rolling starts, standing starts, in the corners and with us all driving each others cars to see if it's the driver.
On a straight road and in standard form the Astra is the quickest, then shortly behind is the Civic, then the Focus. From a rolling start the Civic is behind in the same gear, use the gearbox and that changes. There is not much in it but that's how it is.
That grey focus had a MP260 upgrade and then it was far quicker but that's not comparing fairly.
Through the corners the Civic is leagues ahead. The Focus is wallowy and feels really uneasy when it has to change direction quickly. The Astra has shocking steering feel but actually handles okay if you aren't an oaf with the accelerator. The Civic has an amount of understeer but its predictable and you can get the back to move around much easier than the other two.
All 3 owners of these cars agree on this it's not just me. The focus owner admits the Civic is quicker over a windy road, but he prefers his focus as it has a lazier style to its power delivery, the torque is nice and he prefers the looks.
I disagree with you on nearly every point, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to think after covering a lot of miles in each of the cars that my opinion is pretty valid
ST and VXR were virtually identical in pace as standard, the CTR kept up until 60mph and then it was quite obviously slower after that.
The CTR may have sharper steering but is much less fun with no playful ability like the ST does.
Our experiences mirrors ALL road tests in regards to performance and ability. If yours is different or your cars were not new then well lets just say your experience doesn't mirror anyone elses and leave it there.
Cars never make their peak power from brand new, the K20 is well known for not really opening up for a good 10k miles at least. But it is convenient that you all bought the competitors brand new at the exact same time haha!
The Civic is far more playful than the Focus, you are literally talking rubbish. The Chris Harris how to lift off oversteer video was done in an FN2 because of how good it is at it! :L
People vote with their feet at the end of the day and I know plenty that have traded in a Astra/Focus for an Fn2 but none the other way.
The Megane is undoubtedly a good car although not quite the amazing thing its built up to be. Its just the interior on them that are poor.
ZX10R NIN said:
True but these aren't & were still rated as the best handling hot hatches.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
If i wanted a 'bigger' hot hatch, that'd be my choice. Reliability issues aside, most agree these are the 'best' at being a hot hatch, but not the best at being an all rounder.http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Im currently looking at RS Clio's to replace my 330.
billy939 said:
On a straight road and in standard form the Astra is the quickest, then shortly behind is the Civic, then the Focus. From a rolling start the Civic is behind in the same gear, use the gearbox and that changes. There is not much in it but that's how it is.
That grey focus had a MP260 upgrade and then it was far quicker but that's not comparing fairly.
Through the corners the Civic is leagues ahead. The Focus is wallowy and feels really uneasy when it has to change direction quickly. The Astra has shocking steering feel but actually handles okay if you aren't an oaf with the accelerator. The Civic has an amount of understeer but its predictable and you can get the back to move around much easier than the other two.
All 3 owners of these cars agree on this it's not just me. The focus owner admits the Civic is quicker over a windy road, but he prefers his focus as it has a lazier style to its power delivery, the torque is nice and he prefers the looks.
I disagree with you on nearly every point, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to think after covering a lot of miles in each of the cars that my opinion is pretty valid
i have to say, when I had my old R53 Cooper S (had two, both standard) Civic Type R baiting was fun. They always lost on the initial push, but would gain fractionally as I changed gear (I assume when right at the top of their rev range). I was never beaten by one, no crap, on both arranged and quick blast attempts. The Focus ST though, always seemed to JUST have me in every situation.That grey focus had a MP260 upgrade and then it was far quicker but that's not comparing fairly.
Through the corners the Civic is leagues ahead. The Focus is wallowy and feels really uneasy when it has to change direction quickly. The Astra has shocking steering feel but actually handles okay if you aren't an oaf with the accelerator. The Civic has an amount of understeer but its predictable and you can get the back to move around much easier than the other two.
All 3 owners of these cars agree on this it's not just me. The focus owner admits the Civic is quicker over a windy road, but he prefers his focus as it has a lazier style to its power delivery, the torque is nice and he prefers the looks.
I disagree with you on nearly every point, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to think after covering a lot of miles in each of the cars that my opinion is pretty valid
Golgarth said:
billy939 said:
On a straight road and in standard form the Astra is the quickest, then shortly behind is the Civic, then the Focus. From a rolling start the Civic is behind in the same gear, use the gearbox and that changes. There is not much in it but that's how it is.
That grey focus had a MP260 upgrade and then it was far quicker but that's not comparing fairly.
Through the corners the Civic is leagues ahead. The Focus is wallowy and feels really uneasy when it has to change direction quickly. The Astra has shocking steering feel but actually handles okay if you aren't an oaf with the accelerator. The Civic has an amount of understeer but its predictable and you can get the back to move around much easier than the other two.
All 3 owners of these cars agree on this it's not just me. The focus owner admits the Civic is quicker over a windy road, but he prefers his focus as it has a lazier style to its power delivery, the torque is nice and he prefers the looks.
I disagree with you on nearly every point, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to think after covering a lot of miles in each of the cars that my opinion is pretty valid
i have to say, when I had my old R53 Cooper S (had two, both standard) Civic Type R baiting was fun. They always lost on the initial push, but would gain fractionally as I changed gear (I assume when right at the top of their rev range). I was never beaten by one, no crap, on both arranged and quick blast attempts. The Focus ST though, always seemed to JUST have me in every situation.That grey focus had a MP260 upgrade and then it was far quicker but that's not comparing fairly.
Through the corners the Civic is leagues ahead. The Focus is wallowy and feels really uneasy when it has to change direction quickly. The Astra has shocking steering feel but actually handles okay if you aren't an oaf with the accelerator. The Civic has an amount of understeer but its predictable and you can get the back to move around much easier than the other two.
All 3 owners of these cars agree on this it's not just me. The focus owner admits the Civic is quicker over a windy road, but he prefers his focus as it has a lazier style to its power delivery, the torque is nice and he prefers the looks.
I disagree with you on nearly every point, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to think after covering a lot of miles in each of the cars that my opinion is pretty valid
billy939 said:
All road tests....apart from Top Gear Magazine who voted it hot hatch of the year 2007, beating all of the others and being lapped quicker by the stig
Cars never make their peak power from brand new, the K20 is well known for not really opening up for a good 10k miles at least. But it is convenient that you all bought the competitors brand new at the exact same time haha!
The Civic is far more playful than the Focus, you are literally talking rubbish. The Chris Harris how to lift off oversteer video was done in an FN2 because of how good it is at it! :L
People vote with their feet at the end of the day and I know plenty that have traded in a Astra/Focus for an Fn2 but none the other way.
.
Top Gear Magazine... ah the biggest joke of them all.Cars never make their peak power from brand new, the K20 is well known for not really opening up for a good 10k miles at least. But it is convenient that you all bought the competitors brand new at the exact same time haha!
The Civic is far more playful than the Focus, you are literally talking rubbish. The Chris Harris how to lift off oversteer video was done in an FN2 because of how good it is at it! :L
People vote with their feet at the end of the day and I know plenty that have traded in a Astra/Focus for an Fn2 but none the other way.
.
Civic is nowhere near as playful, just buzzy with direct steering.
Its not convenient we all bought them at the same time at all, its what happens when the economy is doing well and 3 guys want to buy cars but not all the same ones. Like its unheard of? Surely you aren't that thick?
Civics dont make full power from new? Really? Just excuse after excuse. Performance stats are all there.
I see why you are called billy.
Come on guys both are good hot hatches for me the Civic was a bit to frantic whereas the ST was a better all rounder especially when your driving to the trackdays etc the Civic is a bit sharper but the Focus has more grunt the VXR out grunts them all in a straight line & the Renault creams all of them down a B road.
It's horses for courses people will like different things.
It's horses for courses people will like different things.
rb5er said:
billy939 said:
All road tests....apart from Top Gear Magazine who voted it hot hatch of the year 2007, beating all of the others and being lapped quicker by the stig
Cars never make their peak power from brand new, the K20 is well known for not really opening up for a good 10k miles at least. But it is convenient that you all bought the competitors brand new at the exact same time haha!
The Civic is far more playful than the Focus, you are literally talking rubbish. The Chris Harris how to lift off oversteer video was done in an FN2 because of how good it is at it! :L
People vote with their feet at the end of the day and I know plenty that have traded in a Astra/Focus for an Fn2 but none the other way.
.
Top Gear Magazine... ah the biggest joke of them all.Cars never make their peak power from brand new, the K20 is well known for not really opening up for a good 10k miles at least. But it is convenient that you all bought the competitors brand new at the exact same time haha!
The Civic is far more playful than the Focus, you are literally talking rubbish. The Chris Harris how to lift off oversteer video was done in an FN2 because of how good it is at it! :L
People vote with their feet at the end of the day and I know plenty that have traded in a Astra/Focus for an Fn2 but none the other way.
.
Civic is nowhere near as playful, just buzzy with direct steering.
Its not convenient we all bought them at the same time at all, its what happens when the economy is doing well and 3 guys want to buy cars but not all the same ones. Like its unheard of? Surely you aren't that thick?
Civics dont make full power from new? Really? Just excuse after excuse. Performance stats are all there.
I see why you are called billy.
Chris Harris and Martin Rowe in what would be described as a playful Type R, I think you'll agree. And for a bonus point, spot which car they use in the clip of it overstering off the track? Yes a Focus ST
I've provided plenty of evidence as to why I disagree with you, you seem to just have an issue with the Honda as a lot of people do. However I'm sure you know better than the largest motoring magazine in the world, and Ben Collins (stig) and Martin Rowe.
After all the Focus has an extra cylinder, larger displacement, a turbo and its still slower than the Civic. No wonder you're resorting to personal insults to try and defend your weak argument
Must dash now though, my friends just bringing round his new FN2, which comes with the diff too so its even better in the bends, I'll post a pic later if you like as I know how much you love them
billy939 said:
I had a Mini Cooper S R53 at the same time as my first ep3. The mini was great, sounded amazing, good mid range and great handling. But straight line performance it wasn't even close to the Civic, close to 40hp down and it did show. My boss at the time had the 211bhp JCW R53 and from 30-130 the Civic and JCW sat neck and neck with nothing between them. The JCW would have had it in the bends though, a brilliant car to drive when you were in the mood
I was looking at the Mini S's at the same time as my current car to replace the Clio 182 I had. Doesn't the Mini S's have a few inherent reliability issues? I finally settled on a CTR purely from a reliability standpoint and the fact the K20's can do major mileage without serious issues.Clio 172/182/197 would be the obvious one, but 25000 miles in one wouldn't be great.
My vote goes to an Audi S3 of around 2002/2003 - before Audi went off the rails. They are still great looking cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
My vote goes to an Audi S3 of around 2002/2003 - before Audi went off the rails. They are still great looking cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
fivepointnine said:
billy939 said:
I had a Mini Cooper S R53 at the same time as my first ep3. The mini was great, sounded amazing, good mid range and great handling. But straight line performance it wasn't even close to the Civic, close to 40hp down and it did show. My boss at the time had the 211bhp JCW R53 and from 30-130 the Civic and JCW sat neck and neck with nothing between them. The JCW would have had it in the bends though, a brilliant car to drive when you were in the mood
I was looking at the Mini S's at the same time as my current car to replace the Clio 182 I had. Doesn't the Mini S's have a few inherent reliability issues? I finally settled on a CTR purely from a reliability standpoint and the fact the K20's can do major mileage without serious issues.
The Clio 182 is a good shout, but yeah not as good at the long distance stuff and again reliability can be an issue.
RenOHH said:
Clio 172/182/197 would be the obvious one, but 25000 miles in one wouldn't be great.
My vote goes to an Audi S3 of around 2002/2003 - before Audi went off the rails. They are still great looking cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
Surely I can't be on my own in thinking that those have aged really badly. Compared to the RS4/6 S8's etc of the same period, anyway.My vote goes to an Audi S3 of around 2002/2003 - before Audi went off the rails. They are still great looking cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
justanother5tar said:
RenOHH said:
Clio 172/182/197 would be the obvious one, but 25000 miles in one wouldn't be great.
My vote goes to an Audi S3 of around 2002/2003 - before Audi went off the rails. They are still great looking cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
Surely I can't be on my own in thinking that those have aged really badly. Compared to the RS4/6 S8's etc of the same period, anyway.My vote goes to an Audi S3 of around 2002/2003 - before Audi went off the rails. They are still great looking cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff