RE: Nissan 350Z: PH Buying Guide
Discussion
Shnozz said:
Ferosferio said:
Parsnip said:
An M3 is just not as special as a Z - on paper it is probably better in every way, but it just doesnt have anything like the character.
It's intersting how different people determine what makes a car 'special' for them. I'd agree that character has a part to play but is it more important to have a car with character, which is a subjective thing anyway, than one which is dynamically superior? It can be an overused term, 'character' and one which I find is used at times to hide flaws/failings in a car - I'm not suggesting that's the case with you and the Z here, just thought it was an interesting point to pick up on 
Both the M3 and the 350Z are, IMO, "special" in that they are grin-inducing (in my experience the later engined 350Z far more so than the early revision). I had exposure to an M3 when my g/f of the time had one and I had a Boxster S; the M3 felt a lot more "special" to drive than the Boxster. Both cars had similar performance, and the Boxster S was probably dynamically better and sharper, but the M3 was just great fun and left me smiling a lot more than the typically efficient Porker.
Since playing Gran Turismo as a kid, the 350Z was always special to me - when I had it, every time I walked towards it, it made me feel like a big kid. Driving it, it was flawed, but in a great way - it is hard not to smile driving one.
Contrasting it with the Cayman I have now, I just don't smile as much getting in. The handling is far better and sharper, but it isn't as fun - much more grown up and stern. On paper it is better than the 350Z in every single measurable way, I do still miss the old daft Nissan though.
An M3 to me is either for a really successful photocopier salesman or someone who has kids and still wants a quick car.
Parsnip said:
Shnozz said:
Ferosferio said:
Parsnip said:
An M3 is just not as special as a Z - on paper it is probably better in every way, but it just doesnt have anything like the character.
It's intersting how different people determine what makes a car 'special' for them. I'd agree that character has a part to play but is it more important to have a car with character, which is a subjective thing anyway, than one which is dynamically superior? It can be an overused term, 'character' and one which I find is used at times to hide flaws/failings in a car - I'm not suggesting that's the case with you and the Z here, just thought it was an interesting point to pick up on Both the M3 and the 350Z are, IMO, "special" in that they are grin-inducing (in my experience the later engined 350Z far more so than the early revision). I had exposure to an M3 when my g/f of the time had one and I had a Boxster S; the M3 felt a lot more "special" to drive than the Boxster. Both cars had similar performance, and the Boxster S was probably dynamically better and sharper, but the M3 was just great fun and left me smiling a lot more than the typically efficient Porker.
Since playing Gran Turismo as a kid, the 350Z was always special to me - when I had it, every time I walked towards it, it made me feel like a big kid. Driving it, it was flawed, but in a great way - it is hard not to smile driving one.
Contrasting it with the Cayman I have now, I just don't smile as much getting in. The handling is far better and sharper, but it isn't as fun - much more grown up and stern. On paper it is better than the 350Z in every single measurable way, I do still miss the old daft Nissan though.
An M3 to me is either for a really successful photocopier salesman or someone who has kids and still wants a quick car.
I do entirely agree with you re the Cayman though, and it's exactly how my Boxster S felt - hugely polished and arguably best in class, but just no passion to me.
Captain Muppet said:
My best mate is hugely anti-350Z, when I started looking for a nice sensible car to go with my Elise I'd pretty much settled on the 350Z, or an old 944, or a Z4C, and to tempt me away from the Datsun he'd keep sending me links to lovely Z4s for sale.
It backfired slightly in that he looked at them so much he had to buy one. So he has a Z4C 3.0 and I have a 350Z. I love the Z4, the engine is gorgeous, straight sixes are just right, the interior is nicer (apart from the seat squeaking on the bulkhead), I prefer the look of the Z4C and it's a lovely car apart from the steering, which is OK on a nice dry road, but weirdly confidence sapping in the wet because there is little useful feel. This isn't on run-flats either, but real tyres.
The 350Z feels slightly faster (which I don't care about and may be imagining), has a worse interior (which I also don't care about), has slightly worse heated seats (which I'm annoyed at myself for caring about), worse gear change, and feels heavier to throw around. But critically it has excellent steering, and cost a lot less money.
The Z4 with the 350Z steering would be near perfect, but the 350Z as it is is really close. All of the 350Z's flaws are minor (or arguably features rather than flaws) and also the sort of thing you'd not notice without constantly hopping from one to the other. He's putting up with the Z4's steering because the rest of it is so right, but it's a constant slight annoyance.
Back to the guide: PH - the forged Rays wheels aren't magnesium, and the rubber mounted steel mass in the boot isn't a counterweight to help it close (duh) it's a vibration damper to fix a particular frequency of NVH issue. When a car with leaky gas struts slams it's boot on your head the only thing you need to fix is the gas struts, not remove unrelated bits to temporarily ignore the problem.
Although that's obviously the first thing I did after I googled the problem, which is how I came to recognise it as a mass damper.
Also I can't be the only person who thinks that putting the ESP off button out of sight next to the headlight washer button is an ergonomic disaster. The heated seat buttons are also in a silly place under your elbow where it's dangerously hard to check if they are still on while driving. This is the sort of s
t I expect from Porsche, not Nissan. Although my 200SX would turn it's fog lamp on with my knee every time I got in it, so maybe it's "character".
And dozens of times I've turned the headlights off while indicating because the massively over-styled lamp stalk has weak detents on the rotating part of the switch.
Reading that back it seems a little anti-350Z, but I really love the Nissan. There are even times when I don't hate the door handles.
It backfired slightly in that he looked at them so much he had to buy one. So he has a Z4C 3.0 and I have a 350Z. I love the Z4, the engine is gorgeous, straight sixes are just right, the interior is nicer (apart from the seat squeaking on the bulkhead), I prefer the look of the Z4C and it's a lovely car apart from the steering, which is OK on a nice dry road, but weirdly confidence sapping in the wet because there is little useful feel. This isn't on run-flats either, but real tyres.
The 350Z feels slightly faster (which I don't care about and may be imagining), has a worse interior (which I also don't care about), has slightly worse heated seats (which I'm annoyed at myself for caring about), worse gear change, and feels heavier to throw around. But critically it has excellent steering, and cost a lot less money.
The Z4 with the 350Z steering would be near perfect, but the 350Z as it is is really close. All of the 350Z's flaws are minor (or arguably features rather than flaws) and also the sort of thing you'd not notice without constantly hopping from one to the other. He's putting up with the Z4's steering because the rest of it is so right, but it's a constant slight annoyance.
Back to the guide: PH - the forged Rays wheels aren't magnesium, and the rubber mounted steel mass in the boot isn't a counterweight to help it close (duh) it's a vibration damper to fix a particular frequency of NVH issue. When a car with leaky gas struts slams it's boot on your head the only thing you need to fix is the gas struts, not remove unrelated bits to temporarily ignore the problem.
Although that's obviously the first thing I did after I googled the problem, which is how I came to recognise it as a mass damper.
Also I can't be the only person who thinks that putting the ESP off button out of sight next to the headlight washer button is an ergonomic disaster. The heated seat buttons are also in a silly place under your elbow where it's dangerously hard to check if they are still on while driving. This is the sort of s
t I expect from Porsche, not Nissan. Although my 200SX would turn it's fog lamp on with my knee every time I got in it, so maybe it's "character".And dozens of times I've turned the headlights off while indicating because the massively over-styled lamp stalk has weak detents on the rotating part of the switch.
Reading that back it seems a little anti-350Z, but I really love the Nissan. There are even times when I don't hate the door handles.
Thanks, that is a good write up from someone with experience of both.
Maybe if/when the Z4 is going I need to look closer at a Nissan.
Mind you I don't find the Z4 steering too bad, especially since I had new front control arm bushes fitted, but that may be because I had a 1 Series with EPAS for the previous 6+ years!
Mr Tidy said:
Mind you I don't find the Z4 steering too bad, especially since I had new front control arm bushes fitted, but that may be because I had a 1 Series with EPAS for the previous 6+ years!
I thought the facelift E8x 1 series which had EPAS had the same EPAS that was fitted to the Z4 3.0s Coupe mentioned in the post above? I'm sure it is on the LCi 130i's so I imagine the same for other EPAS 1 series? Do you have one of the earlier Z4's? If so I think it is the same hydraulic set up as the E46 3 series...Edited by jonwilli79 on Friday 31st July 18:56
jonwilli79 said:
I thought the facelift E8x 1 series which had EPAS had the same EPAS that was fitted to the Z4 3.0s Coupe mentioned in the post above? I'm sure it is on the LCi 130i's so I imagine the same for other EPAS 1 series? Do you have one of the earlier Z4's? If so I think it is the same hydraulic set up as the E46 3 series...
To be fair I think I may have misled you with my second (abbreviated because I got lazy) post as my Z4 is a Coupe, so it has EPAS like my 1 Series had - the 123d only came along after the LCi.Edited by jonwilli79 on Friday 31st July 18:56
Saying that my current daily is an E46 325ti Compact with hydraulic PAS and frankly it doesn't feel much better to me! Maybe I don't notice subtle differences.
Mr Tidy said:
To be fair I think I may have misled you with my second (abbreviated because I got lazy) post as my Z4 is a Coupe, so it has EPAS like my 1 Series had - the 123d only came along after the LCi.
Saying that my current daily is an E46 325ti Compact with hydraulic PAS and frankly it doesn't feel much better to me! Maybe I don't notice subtle differences.
Ah I understand now! Thought you meant the Z4 with EPAS was better than the Ex 1 series with EPAS rather than you'd got sensitised to BMW EPAS! I have a 1 series with EPAS and although it hasn't that much feel, is fairly direct and accurate and on a par with an E46 I had on loan for a few weeks with hydraulic assistance. E46 steering is held far above BMW EPAS but i didn't really see why...Saying that my current daily is an E46 325ti Compact with hydraulic PAS and frankly it doesn't feel much better to me! Maybe I don't notice subtle differences.
jonwilli79 said:
Ah I understand now! Thought you meant the Z4 with EPAS was better than the Ex 1 series with EPAS rather than you'd got sensitised to BMW EPAS! I have a 1 series with EPAS and although it hasn't that much feel, is fairly direct and accurate and on a par with an E46 I had on loan for a few weeks with hydraulic assistance. E46 steering is held far above BMW EPAS but i didn't really see why...
No, my experience too. EPAS is not great but E46 hydraulic is not significantly better - neither is nearly as good as the hydraulic system on my 2.8 Capris or Granadas, and they were a world behind the unassisted set-up I had in my MkII Escort RS2000.
Ryan_T said:
Do a search for 'Seasucker Talon', that's what I use on mine!
Ryan T, I was looking at these but I couldn't bring my self to trust it and at the price of it, would have been an expensive trial to try out! can you give me some feedback? I want to avoid even trying to put my bike in the car (though I've seen it done in photos, I don't want to scratch/damage the boot area)Aside from that I love my zed. I've got the DE Rev up (middle engine model). I've had it a year so far and I struggle to find anything I dislike. I've done close to 8k miles and its mainly used for the work commute. I average about 22-23mpg for this. On a long run of cruising on motorways I've managed just passing 30mpg. It soaks up the miles in comfort. Suspension is just right IMO for a sports car.
I haven't had the joy of owning an M3 (YET), but for the money, you cant go wrong with a 350z. They might feel heavy and plasticy but it feels like a solid car, planted! especially for hooning and flooring it around. Love the torque in it, pulls away in 2nd gear no problem.
An unusual pro which I've noticed in the rain when on the motorway, the aerodynamics of the car mean you never get spray collecting on the back window which I really like!
In the year I've had it, I've treated it to some of the 350z drivers favourite shoes (Michellin MPSS allround), wheel spacers for better stance, a service, a detailed clean and just recently a cobra rear box with a resonated mid-pipe - common thing to go wrong is that the pipe going in to the rear box can snap from the flange.
Apart from what's been mentioned already, they're a great car for the money! Enough said I think!
..Thought it might be worth mentioning as I don't think it's cropped up yet; if you're 6'3+ you might struggle to fit.
I sat in one a while back, thinking I could try one given they are a bit of a bargain, however I couldn't quite get comfortable. I seem to remember legroom was reasonable the the seat all the way back, but once the seat had been reclined to suit, the sloping roof meant my hair was just skimming the headlining. Something that would bug me continually, so wrote that idea off there and then. Somewhat frustrating as I had to do with same to the Z4C a week earlier, which was even smaller inside.
I sat in one a while back, thinking I could try one given they are a bit of a bargain, however I couldn't quite get comfortable. I seem to remember legroom was reasonable the the seat all the way back, but once the seat had been reclined to suit, the sloping roof meant my hair was just skimming the headlining. Something that would bug me continually, so wrote that idea off there and then. Somewhat frustrating as I had to do with same to the Z4C a week earlier, which was even smaller inside.
Gompo said:
..Thought it might be worth mentioning as I don't think it's cropped up yet; if you're 6'3+ you might struggle to fit.
After reading the article and the comments I really want one. I will definitely go and see one now in the flesh and see if I can fit inside it first of all... otherwise a GT86 / Z4 might be better suited. I do love the 370Z though...wonder if I could fit in that.Superb car,owned a 2004 with 80k on the clock.Drove without fault for my 4 years of ownership,great fuel economy for a 3.5 ,saw 35 mpg on a run!Only negatives,tyres expensive and rears wore quickly,rear boot struts weak and power window motor died.For the money,the best car I have had,including Elise s1 and noble m12
I have a roadster and it is IMO superior to my previous BMW Z4 and Z3. It's fun to drive. 26 MPG is normal. You can get golf bag full of sticks in it if you want AND have the roof down at the same time. It does 155 MPH if you're stupid enough to do it and 0-60 in under 6 seconds. In any carpark, 90% of the time it's the best looking car there. People like it. Many think it's worth a lot more than seven grand. We are all on budgets and for the money, it's a fantastic car.
For anyone looking for one of these I stumbled across a lovely rare midnight blue model at a garage in Harrogate when I was picking a car up last week....
http://www.follifootmotorcompany.co.uk/used/nissan...
http://www.follifootmotorcompany.co.uk/used/nissan...
When looking for a more exciting daily than my is220d I initially discounted the 350z because of tales of 22mpg. Eventually after months looking including trying s2000 and z4 I decided that I wanted a 350z and life was too short not to get one.
If you are struggling to justify a purchase DO/DON’T ask yourself “If I do not own one now when will I own one? Makes you think carpe diem that’s for sure!
Fuel Consumption...
-Daily 40 mile roundtrip over mountain A road returns 30+ mpg.(29-32)
-Average MPG per tank 27-30 mpg(usually 28 compared to 37-38mpg in is220d.)
-Pressing on hard in lower gears 22-24mpg.
-Stuck in town traffic 20mpg but has been as low as 17.
Things I like...
-its muscular and purposeful look.
-the sound that is quiet under 3000 yet turns into a raucous growl above that.
-A driving position I was immediately comfortable in for the 4 hour drive home (usually get cramp after an hour driving unfamiliar cars)
-steering is confidence inspiring, slightly weighty and with a great wheel.
-NA power delivery which after that turbo diesel is220 feels like heaven.
-Brakes are the biggest I have owned and seem to reduce speed quickly with little drama.
-6th gear useable from 40mph so a relaxed drive.
-Grip in wet and dry has been supreme. Really feels planted on the road and I guess perhaps this adds to the weighty criticism that it gets. I feel like I can drive my mountain commute in all conditions without fear. (Could have rowed to work this morning there was that much standing water 350z coped fine)
I can understand why these are not for everyone but it’s the first car for a long time where I suddenly realise I am grinning like a Cheshire cat as I drive along.
If you are struggling to justify a purchase DO/DON’T ask yourself “If I do not own one now when will I own one? Makes you think carpe diem that’s for sure!
Fuel Consumption...
-Daily 40 mile roundtrip over mountain A road returns 30+ mpg.(29-32)
-Average MPG per tank 27-30 mpg(usually 28 compared to 37-38mpg in is220d.)
-Pressing on hard in lower gears 22-24mpg.
-Stuck in town traffic 20mpg but has been as low as 17.
Things I like...
-its muscular and purposeful look.
-the sound that is quiet under 3000 yet turns into a raucous growl above that.
-A driving position I was immediately comfortable in for the 4 hour drive home (usually get cramp after an hour driving unfamiliar cars)
-steering is confidence inspiring, slightly weighty and with a great wheel.
-NA power delivery which after that turbo diesel is220 feels like heaven.
-Brakes are the biggest I have owned and seem to reduce speed quickly with little drama.
-6th gear useable from 40mph so a relaxed drive.
-Grip in wet and dry has been supreme. Really feels planted on the road and I guess perhaps this adds to the weighty criticism that it gets. I feel like I can drive my mountain commute in all conditions without fear. (Could have rowed to work this morning there was that much standing water 350z coped fine)
I can understand why these are not for everyone but it’s the first car for a long time where I suddenly realise I am grinning like a Cheshire cat as I drive along.
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