OEM vs Aftermarket Brakes.
Discussion
I'm going to need some new brakes soon (Its a twingo gt, front discs and pads need doing)
The car is most likely not going to go on a track day. I do go on the odd hoon around the country roads at the weekends, but during the rest of the week it just drives around town.
Many many forums (google search) seem to rate Ferodo ds2500 pads. But many forums are performance based, not every day car based.
Anyway, I've been reading about race pads, that a lot of them need heat in them to work properly. But I need brakes that work well from cold, as I'm just as likely need to brake hard when some eejit pulls out in front of me a mile up the road, when my brakes are cold because I haven't touched them yet.
So in short I do country road driving at weekends (when race pads would be good and hot). But A road and town driving (With lots of stop, start traffic) during the week when the pads will be cold a lot of the time.
I was looking at the brembro HC disc with DS2500 pads. But how good are they when cold? On a daily driver? And are they worth the money? (Ds2500 are around £160, HC discs are around £30). Plus a side of me thinks they would be overkill on a twingo.
Or I could go on the cheap (you would think not such a good idea on brakes but you can get brembro oem pads for £14, ECP sell pagid discs for £20 each, £10 for pads which seems nearly too cheap).
Or I could stick with genuine Renault parts, £82 for the fronts discs , £39 for the pads. Dearer than ECP, GSF and the like, but at least I know what I'm getting.
The car is most likely not going to go on a track day. I do go on the odd hoon around the country roads at the weekends, but during the rest of the week it just drives around town.
Many many forums (google search) seem to rate Ferodo ds2500 pads. But many forums are performance based, not every day car based.
Anyway, I've been reading about race pads, that a lot of them need heat in them to work properly. But I need brakes that work well from cold, as I'm just as likely need to brake hard when some eejit pulls out in front of me a mile up the road, when my brakes are cold because I haven't touched them yet.
So in short I do country road driving at weekends (when race pads would be good and hot). But A road and town driving (With lots of stop, start traffic) during the week when the pads will be cold a lot of the time.
I was looking at the brembro HC disc with DS2500 pads. But how good are they when cold? On a daily driver? And are they worth the money? (Ds2500 are around £160, HC discs are around £30). Plus a side of me thinks they would be overkill on a twingo.
Or I could go on the cheap (you would think not such a good idea on brakes but you can get brembro oem pads for £14, ECP sell pagid discs for £20 each, £10 for pads which seems nearly too cheap).
Or I could stick with genuine Renault parts, £82 for the fronts discs , £39 for the pads. Dearer than ECP, GSF and the like, but at least I know what I'm getting.
Dc2500 are fine for road use and I found they offer a lot of extra bite over the ecp pagid pads I used before.
However, make sure you bed them in properly.
They were crap from cold initially until I gave them a real hammering. Now they act like oem from cold and I have a constant pedal on a run.
Downsides are lots of dust and will wear the discs a lot faster.
However, make sure you bed them in properly.
They were crap from cold initially until I gave them a real hammering. Now they act like oem from cold and I have a constant pedal on a run.
Downsides are lots of dust and will wear the discs a lot faster.
A little label with R90 is largely irrelevant to whether a pad is suitable.
I sell DS2500 to road customers every single day and they work very well as a fast road pad.
If you are worried about the cold then it may be better to look at Mintex M1144 as these work at lower temperatures than the DS2500, or even look at the Ferodo DS Performance range as that is sold as a fast road pad rather than a race pad.
I sell DS2500 to road customers every single day and they work very well as a fast road pad.
If you are worried about the cold then it may be better to look at Mintex M1144 as these work at lower temperatures than the DS2500, or even look at the Ferodo DS Performance range as that is sold as a fast road pad rather than a race pad.
Batfink said:
A little label with R90 is largely irrelevant to whether a pad is suitable.
I sell DS2500 to road customers every single day and they work very well as a fast road pad.
If you are worried about the cold then it may be better to look at Mintex M1144 as these work at lower temperatures than the DS2500, or even look at the Ferodo DS Performance range as that is sold as a fast road pad rather than a race pad.
I don't doubt their suitability for the road in the slightest. It's the legality I'm unsure of. I sell DS2500 to road customers every single day and they work very well as a fast road pad.
If you are worried about the cold then it may be better to look at Mintex M1144 as these work at lower temperatures than the DS2500, or even look at the Ferodo DS Performance range as that is sold as a fast road pad rather than a race pad.
A900ss said:
I don't doubt their suitability for the road in the slightest. It's the legality I'm unsure of.
Its a minimum standard to comply to theinternetsays said:
Regulation 90 stipulates that replacement parts comply with European braking requirements for performance, fade and hot performance and that their performance is within 15% of that of the orginal.
As we do not have a TUV style system in the uk you can in reality fit pretty much what you like, but it is a good idea to have an understanding of what you are buying so you dont buy a brake pad thats unsuitable or at least buy from someone who can give an unbiased opinion.The downsides to a 'generic' performance pad can sometimes be poor performance at low temperatures, price is more, disc and pad wear can be higher, pads can be more noisy or dusty but on the flipside you can get better pedal feel, improved bite, less brake degradation at high temperatures, a cheap way to get better performance without upgrading calipers or disc size etc etc
A900ss said:
DS2500's do not have official markings showing they are approved for road use...... (As far as I am aware!)
Road pads must be marked with R90. I don't doubt their suitability for the road in the slightest. It's the legality I'm unsure of.
Road pads must be marked with R90. I don't doubt their suitability for the road in the slightest. It's the legality I'm unsure of.
Ferodo said:
All Ferodo brake pads citing race or racing on their packaging (which the DS2500 does) are solely developed for motorsport use. They are intended for race use only. They have not been developed for use on public roads and must not, under any circumstances, be used on public roads.
It's the DSPerformance for the road.TurboHatchback said:
I would get OEM parts from Renault myself, I doubt you'll see any meaningful improvement in performance with aftermarket parts and they will be compromised in some way or another.
You would spend a fortune compared to buying something like Brembo (who make a lot of the renault parts). I'll use the Megane RS discs as an example. Brembo make the Renault discs with drilled holes in them. Renault charge about £260. For the same disc from Brembo (minus the holes) about £80The plain discs last longer and cope with higher tempertures from trackdays etc without cracking.
A simple question for the OP is. Do you think your brakes are not good enough?
If you are happy with OEM spec then buy OEM equivalent and save yourself a lot of money. Just remember that Renault dont make brake pads, they buy from someone else. Choose a big company that makes OEM spec pads and you will be just as safe yet have more money in the pocket. All the big players, Brembo, Mintex, Ferodo, Pagid etc make OEM spec brakes and you would struggle to tell the difference as they have to conform to set standards..£34 or £114 for the same braking performance.
If you are happy with OEM spec then buy OEM equivalent and save yourself a lot of money. Just remember that Renault dont make brake pads, they buy from someone else. Choose a big company that makes OEM spec pads and you will be just as safe yet have more money in the pocket. All the big players, Brembo, Mintex, Ferodo, Pagid etc make OEM spec brakes and you would struggle to tell the difference as they have to conform to set standards..£34 or £114 for the same braking performance.
Edited by Batfink on Wednesday 29th July 22:48
Batfink said:
A simple question for the OP is. Do you think your brakes are not good enough?
If you are happy with OEM spec then buy OEM equivalent and save yourself a lot of money. Just remember that Renault dont make brake pads, they buy from someone else. Choose a big company that makes OEM spec pads and you will be just as safe yet have more money in the pocket. All the big players, Brembo, Mintex, Ferodo, Pagid etc make OEM spec brakes and you would struggle to tell the difference as they have to conform to set standards..£34 or £114 for the same braking performance.
Not true. As someone who has tested braking performance with different pads for a OE I can safely say you will not get the same braking performance. Being a twingo (so small pads/Disks) you may not notice much of a difference between them but it will not be the same. If you are happy with OEM spec then buy OEM equivalent and save yourself a lot of money. Just remember that Renault dont make brake pads, they buy from someone else. Choose a big company that makes OEM spec pads and you will be just as safe yet have more money in the pocket. All the big players, Brembo, Mintex, Ferodo, Pagid etc make OEM spec brakes and you would struggle to tell the difference as they have to conform to set standards..£34 or £114 for the same braking performance.
Edited by Batfink on Wednesday 29th July 22:48
In this case I would say the brake difference would be small do just go for the cheapest.
We have also found cheapest is not always the worst for performance!.
In most cases the limit of braking is the grip of the tyre. Brake upgrades help more with reducing brake fade. And who actually would get brake fade in road driving?Pimp that Twingo.
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-wh...
Upgrading is about dealing with heat, not about stopping distances in normal driving (unless you also stiffen the suspension to counter weight transfer under braking). Yeah this article is about disc size, which isn't what the OP asked, but hey.
For road use buy OEM road pads, especially on something like a Twingo.
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-wh...
Upgrading is about dealing with heat, not about stopping distances in normal driving (unless you also stiffen the suspension to counter weight transfer under braking). Yeah this article is about disc size, which isn't what the OP asked, but hey.
For road use buy OEM road pads, especially on something like a Twingo.
TurboHatchback said:
I would get OEM parts from Renault myself, I doubt you'll see any meaningful improvement in performance with aftermarket parts and they will be compromised in some way or another.
Why? Renault won't make them and they will probably be twice the price of anything else. In the 17 years I've been driving I don't think I have ever bought car manufacturer brake pads. So many cheaper and probably better alternatives out there.
I have just had ATE pads and PAGID discs fitted to my MINI by a local independent specialist. Saved over £100 compared to "Genuine" BMW Parts. May well be doing a track day in the coming months so i will see if they are up to the job!
I have always fitted "aftermarket" OEM replacement discs/pads on all my cars from the likes of Pagid or Mintex etc, all have always been fine.
I have always fitted "aftermarket" OEM replacement discs/pads on all my cars from the likes of Pagid or Mintex etc, all have always been fine.
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