To buy or not to buy? 997 911
Discussion
Hi, long time lurker here.
Currently looking to upgrade my X Type to something a bit more....well, PH for want of a better phrase. The 997 911s look to have dropped to a fair price at the moment and having always liked the looks I'm sorely tempted, however the horror stories of IMS bearings and scored bores make me damned nervous, especially when it seems an engine rebuild will be ten k..... Something I really don't want to be in a position to have to shell out. Also on the IMS issue, is out better to go for high mileage or lower mileage?
Basically can any 997 owners share their experiences with the car and give me some overall pointers for what to look for and what I could expect to go wrong. I know the clutch will need changing at about 50k.
My budget for reference is c.25k.
Currently looking to upgrade my X Type to something a bit more....well, PH for want of a better phrase. The 997 911s look to have dropped to a fair price at the moment and having always liked the looks I'm sorely tempted, however the horror stories of IMS bearings and scored bores make me damned nervous, especially when it seems an engine rebuild will be ten k..... Something I really don't want to be in a position to have to shell out. Also on the IMS issue, is out better to go for high mileage or lower mileage?
Basically can any 997 owners share their experiences with the car and give me some overall pointers for what to look for and what I could expect to go wrong. I know the clutch will need changing at about 50k.
My budget for reference is c.25k.
Two options in my opinion
1 - Buy a 997 gen 1 for just within your budget and accompany it with a warranty of some sort
2 - Extend your budget and buy a DFI engined 997 gen 2, which are a lot more reliable.
If you go down the gen 1 route, which I imagine you will, then I would advise going for a base 911, as their engines are widely thought to be less stressed and thus suffer less from bore scoring. As for IMS the problem becomes less of an issue the newer models as they strengthened it. 09 on however they are no longer an issue.
NB: Carrera S models have more reported bore scoring issues, however it is also thought that the explanation for this could be the fact the S models outstripped the base Carrera in sales and therefore one would expect to see more S cars reporting the issue. Though as it is in some way a cooling related issue the higher stressed S would make sense to be more affected. I believe it's cylinders 5 & 6 that are the trouble.
1 - Buy a 997 gen 1 for just within your budget and accompany it with a warranty of some sort
2 - Extend your budget and buy a DFI engined 997 gen 2, which are a lot more reliable.
If you go down the gen 1 route, which I imagine you will, then I would advise going for a base 911, as their engines are widely thought to be less stressed and thus suffer less from bore scoring. As for IMS the problem becomes less of an issue the newer models as they strengthened it. 09 on however they are no longer an issue.
NB: Carrera S models have more reported bore scoring issues, however it is also thought that the explanation for this could be the fact the S models outstripped the base Carrera in sales and therefore one would expect to see more S cars reporting the issue. Though as it is in some way a cooling related issue the higher stressed S would make sense to be more affected. I believe it's cylinders 5 & 6 that are the trouble.
Cheers thanks for the response...perhaps I'd be best off pushing for the gen2 model. Hmm.Really keen on the 997, just after mitigating risk as best I can. Go in eyes open etc. I see inspections by Peter Morgan come highly recommended.
Re warranties I note the Porsche one only covers you up to 8 years.....are there any others out there (worth the paper they're written on) that would be worth looking at?
Re warranties I note the Porsche one only covers you up to 8 years.....are there any others out there (worth the paper they're written on) that would be worth looking at?
Options are simple enough : get a warranty, accept the risk and have a war chest (the route I took 5 years ago on a 996 - had no problems with it so far), or try and buy something that's lower risk.
I do agree that the rebuild is eye watering, I keep an eye out for Hartech cars in the classified, I don't see anything like as many as you'd expect, but they crop up from time to time.
I do agree that the rebuild is eye watering, I keep an eye out for Hartech cars in the classified, I don't see anything like as many as you'd expect, but they crop up from time to time.
OK- check out the car beforehand, but otherwise, just buy it and enjoy it. I spend ages worrying about the issues when I was planning my route into 997 ownership, and the first few weeks I would religiously check the exhausts for signs of uneven sooting, and pray the oil level was unchanged.
I have now had the car (Midnight Blue '06 plate 997 C4S) for about 18 months, had the absolute best driving of my life- 3 weeks around the alps and North Italy- plenty of decent runs around the UK- several weekends over to the continent. All with wife and small son. It is only now I have another new baby I am really re-evaluating my ownership of the car.
I just went away for a two nights away wedding with the whole family, and even though I did manage to get a pushchair, morning coat, huge hat for Mrs R, the baby and associated clobber, the toddler and his associated clobber, Mrs R and her associated clobber not to mention my own things into the car, it did feel a bit tight, and I don't think my forthcoming trip to Scotland should really be done in it.
Clearly I took a risk, and perhaps if something bad had happened I would be singing a different tune- that said, the experience for me has been superb (even if I have probably spend 4K on routine and preventative maintenance in the time I've had it).
I have now had the car (Midnight Blue '06 plate 997 C4S) for about 18 months, had the absolute best driving of my life- 3 weeks around the alps and North Italy- plenty of decent runs around the UK- several weekends over to the continent. All with wife and small son. It is only now I have another new baby I am really re-evaluating my ownership of the car.
I just went away for a two nights away wedding with the whole family, and even though I did manage to get a pushchair, morning coat, huge hat for Mrs R, the baby and associated clobber, the toddler and his associated clobber, Mrs R and her associated clobber not to mention my own things into the car, it did feel a bit tight, and I don't think my forthcoming trip to Scotland should really be done in it.
Clearly I took a risk, and perhaps if something bad had happened I would be singing a different tune- that said, the experience for me has been superb (even if I have probably spend 4K on routine and preventative maintenance in the time I've had it).
Rudolf R said:
even though I did manage to get a pushchair, morning coat, huge hat for Mrs R, the baby and associated clobber, the toddler and his associated clobber, Mrs R and her associated clobber not to mention my own things into the car, it did feel a bit tight
Spoken like a true PHer. Good skills :-)AC43 said:
Rudolf R said:
even though I did manage to get a pushchair, morning coat, huge hat for Mrs R, the baby and associated clobber, the toddler and his associated clobber, Mrs R and her associated clobber not to mention my own things into the car, it did feel a bit tight
Spoken like a true PHer. Good skills :-)There are other options available when thinking about warranties to get
I don't know where you are from but Paragon Porsche near Tunbridge Wells in the South East are absolute experts, offer all their cars with 1 years warranty and will not take any car onboard that looks dodgy in any way. They race them as Team Paragon.
However, the failures aren't that common of course but it's definitely a risk that I would not enter into without adequate insurance, be it third party or my own 'sinking fund' of sorts.
The key is to enjoy the car, whatever you get, they are absolutely fantastic
I don't know where you are from but Paragon Porsche near Tunbridge Wells in the South East are absolute experts, offer all their cars with 1 years warranty and will not take any car onboard that looks dodgy in any way. They race them as Team Paragon.
However, the failures aren't that common of course but it's definitely a risk that I would not enter into without adequate insurance, be it third party or my own 'sinking fund' of sorts.
The key is to enjoy the car, whatever you get, they are absolutely fantastic
Hungrymc said:
Options are simple enough : get a warranty, accept the risk and have a war chest (the route I took 5 years ago on a 996 - had no problems with it so far), or try and buy something that's lower risk.
I do agree that the rebuild is eye watering, I keep an eye out for Hartech cars in the classified, I don't see anything like as many as you'd expect, but they crop up from time to time.
Same for me, only I'm 6yrs now.I do agree that the rebuild is eye watering, I keep an eye out for Hartech cars in the classified, I don't see anything like as many as you'd expect, but they crop up from time to time.
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