RE: ARES Performance: Bahar's next move
Discussion
IMI A said:
I do not believe even the Arabs or Russians would like what I've seen in the photos.
Are you sure about that? In the last few weeks alone I've seen a gold plated SLR and an S Class AMG coupe which appeared to be covered in velvet, both with Arab number plates. I think you seriously underestimate the lengths our oil producing visitors are willing to go to attract attention.
TartanPaint said:
Jean-Marc Gales is going to make a fortune when he sets up a company that returns these disasters to factory spec.
??????? Rrrrrright just like he's done at Lotus lol! They're even worse than under Bahar. I quite liked Bahars concepts - it was certainly what Lotus needed. Not sure about the wrapper crap though - that was a poor idea...WokkaWokka said:
Fair play to the bloke looks like he's having a good career and making money out of the rich.
If you don't like his business or customer base then keep it to yourself.
Indeed, it's not like this is a discussion forum, nobody in life should ever voice their opinions unless they agree with things.If you don't like his business or customer base then keep it to yourself.
People mock this guy. But the only time I've noticed, raised an eyebrow, even so much as taken an interest in the walking corpse that is Lotus, is when HE had a vision.
Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.
Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.
Make of that what you will.
Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.
Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.
Make of that what you will.
Edited by ChristAlmighty on Saturday 1st August 01:06
ChristAlmighty said:
People mock this guy. But the only time I've noticed, raised an eyebrow, even so much as taken an interest in the walking corpse that is Lotus, is when HE had a vision.
Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.
Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.
Make of that what you will.
I think you do sound like an Arse buyer. Not sure a Lotus is really your thing.Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.
Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.
Make of that what you will.
Edited by ChristAlmighty on Saturday 1st August 01:06
Bahar may have had an'vision' but it was hardly realistic or what Lotus needed in the short - medium term. He needed taking out and shooting.
SidewaysSi said:
ChristAlmighty said:
People mock this guy. But the only time I've noticed, raised an eyebrow, even so much as taken an interest in the walking corpse that is Lotus, is when HE had a vision.
Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.
Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.
Make of that what you will.
I think you do sound like an Arse buyer. Not sure a Lotus is really your thing.Suddenly, I was proud of Lotus again. Better still, I *wanted* a Lotus - even to the point of mailing them asking when I could put a deposit down on the new Esprit. As time passed I became increasingly despondent - why the hell aren't they launching this thing?? At 140-160k I'm IN.
Then he was gone. And so was my interest in Lotus. With no vision, and an endlessly boring recycled parade of buzzy plastic boxes, they are, once again, invisible to me.
Make of that what you will.
Edited by ChristAlmighty on Saturday 1st August 01:06
Bahar may have had an'vision' but it was hardly realistic or what Lotus needed in the short - medium term. He needed taking out and shooting.
It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
SidewaysSi said:
I think you do sound like an Arse buyer. Not sure a Lotus is really your thing.
Bahar may have had an'vision' but it was hardly realistic or what Lotus needed in the short - medium term. He needed taking out and shooting.
You may be right - Lotus as it stands is most definitely "not my thing".Bahar may have had an'vision' but it was hardly realistic or what Lotus needed in the short - medium term. He needed taking out and shooting.
Let me guess tho... you drive something small, buzzy and plastic? ;-)
O
But c'mon, think back to Lotus' heyday? The time they were revered. They had the Esprit. Where the hell is their halo car now?
And no, the Evora (which looks like it's been in a 40mph shunt) isn't it.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm fairness, Bahar's concept and vision was spot on. He knew that Lotus needed some sexier cars and a sexier image of they were to sell the numbers his Board wanted him to.
It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
Perhaps he was overly ambitious... but he had a vision, and I sure as hell hoped at least some of it would materialise. Five cars should have been two; the new Esprit being one of them. His mistake was somehow not understanding that Lotus didn't have a pot to piss in.It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
But c'mon, think back to Lotus' heyday? The time they were revered. They had the Esprit. Where the hell is their halo car now?
And no, the Evora (which looks like it's been in a 40mph shunt) isn't it.
Edited by ChristAlmighty on Saturday 1st August 10:57
ChristAlmighty said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm fairness, Bahar's concept and vision was spot on. He knew that Lotus needed some sexier cars and a sexier image of they were to sell the numbers his Board wanted him to.
It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
He was overly ambitious. Five cars should have been two, the new Esprit being one of them. His mistake was somehow not understanding that Lotud didn't have a lot to piss in.It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
But c'mon - think back to Lotus' heyday? The time they were reverted. They had the Esprit. Where the hell is their halo car? And no, the Evora (which looks like it's been in a mild shunt) isn't it.
A different person could have taken the same plan and as you say, aimed at two cars (inc a halo) and hired endorsements from celebrities that didn't actually make people with £100k to spend piss themselves laughing.
I think the Evora is a halo car when you consider that Lotus has spent nearly two decades peddling a marketing concept that has been the exact opposite of what everyone else has been doing and seeing great success with. But it's clear that Lotus have suddenly woken up to the fact that to get volume sales you also have to appeal to car enthusiasts who aren't quite as extreme as their traditional clientele and arguably with more money.
I don't think anyone would argue that Lotus needs an 'Esprit' model but at the same time it is great to see Lotus finally being steered in that direction. Each new product or variation is ticking more and more of the ever so important Top Trump boxes.
The Evora already stacks up brilliantly against serious kit in terms of performance metrics but the last few bits of the jigsaw are the more esoteric things that get far greater numbers of people aspiring to own and be associated with the brand.
I'm a life long Lotus fan and have despaired at their last twenty years of heading remorselessly in the wrong direction but really happy to see where they are now going and am hopeful that the next big step will be the true halo car that they need.
ChristAlmighty said:
SidewaysSi said:
I think you do sound like an Arse buyer. Not sure a Lotus is really your thing.
Bahar may have had an'vision' but it was hardly realistic or what Lotus needed in the short - medium term. He needed taking out and shooting.
You may be right - Lotus as it stands is most definitely "not my thing".Bahar may have had an'vision' but it was hardly realistic or what Lotus needed in the short - medium term. He needed taking out and shooting.
Let me guess tho... you drive something small, buzzy and plastic? ;-)
DonkeyApple said:
ChristAlmighty said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm fairness, Bahar's concept and vision was spot on. He knew that Lotus needed some sexier cars and a sexier image of they were to sell the numbers his Board wanted him to.
It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
He was overly ambitious. Five cars should have been two, the new Esprit being one of them. His mistake was somehow not understanding that Lotud didn't have a lot to piss in.It was however, his execution that was shocking, verging on criminal. Almost every way in which he went about to to achieve the goal that he was contracted to deliver was a shambles and completely embarrassing.
But a different man following the same concept could well have succeeded in taking Lotus to the point that the number of cars they sold justified the vast expanse and expense of their business.
In short, perfect idea, somewhat cretinous execution.
But c'mon - think back to Lotus' heyday? The time they were reverted. They had the Esprit. Where the hell is their halo car? And no, the Evora (which looks like it's been in a mild shunt) isn't it.
A different person could have taken the same plan and as you say, aimed at two cars (inc a halo) and hired endorsements from celebrities that didn't actually make people with £100k to spend piss themselves laughing.
I think the Evora is a halo car when you consider that Lotus has spent nearly two decades peddling a marketing concept that has been the exact opposite of what everyone else has been doing and seeing great success with. But it's clear that Lotus have suddenly woken up to the fact that to get volume sales you also have to appeal to car enthusiasts who aren't quite as extreme as their traditional clientele and arguably with more money.
I don't think anyone would argue that Lotus needs an 'Esprit' model but at the same time it is great to see Lotus finally being steered in that direction. Each new product or variation is ticking more and more of the ever so important Top Trump boxes.
The Evora already stacks up brilliantly against serious kit in terms of performance metrics but the last few bits of the jigsaw are the more esoteric things that get far greater numbers of people aspiring to own and be associated with the brand.
I'm a life long Lotus fan and have despaired at their last twenty years of heading remorselessly in the wrong direction but really happy to see where they are now going and am hopeful that the next big step will be the true halo car that they need.
SidewaysSi said:
Entirely agree. The cars are starting to win the top trumps game which seems to be important to some. Prices are also going higher which may not be a bad thing, however I do wonder if a £100k plus Esprit is really a good idea. A halo car is all well and good but it would need to spank the competition in enough areas to be credible. And at that level, I fear image is ever important.
Agree with most of what you say - Lotus having a halo car doesn't mean they can't sell Elise's? Every model gets lifted in image, and therefore sales.The new Esprit doesn't have to spank the competition. It has to be fast and agile - handling is a given, but it doesn't really need to top-trump *everything*. It needs to look awesome with a turbo v8 at a reasonable price point. Looks, image, sound, for many well heeled buyers, is *everything*.
As an Aston Vantage v12 owner, I don't care that my car isn't the last word in dynamics. I'm always getting the top-trump card played by Porsche 911 Turbo drivers... I simply don't care. My Aston is in a different league. It's *cool*.
Lotus need cool again.
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