Is diesel in decline?
Discussion
On a recent history programme they highlighted the increased death rate amongst the population in a rapidly growing London in the 19th century.
Burning of coal was the culprit in poorly designed "chimneyed" properties. Not dissimilar to the particulates produced by diesel cars. Basically the lungs became slowly damaged by a build up over time and it lead to breathing failure, then death.
The idiots who run the country.....and I included ALL of them who hold any office, knew about particulate damage and its threat 40 years ago but opted to reduced the nitrous aspect to reduce green house gases, giving the green light and tax breaks to diesel cars and their makers.
Ergo, politicians made decisions which have led to the premature deaths of 10000s of people in last 40 years....impressive eh?
P
Burning of coal was the culprit in poorly designed "chimneyed" properties. Not dissimilar to the particulates produced by diesel cars. Basically the lungs became slowly damaged by a build up over time and it lead to breathing failure, then death.
The idiots who run the country.....and I included ALL of them who hold any office, knew about particulate damage and its threat 40 years ago but opted to reduced the nitrous aspect to reduce green house gases, giving the green light and tax breaks to diesel cars and their makers.
Ergo, politicians made decisions which have led to the premature deaths of 10000s of people in last 40 years....impressive eh?
P
mannyo said:
The ULEZ zone is solely going to operate within the existing congestion charge boundary only.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emissio...
The existing LEZ which incorporates most of the inner M25 is not changing, currently cars are exempt from this charge.
That's good. Last I had seen about it was a much bigger area. Does make sense. Although quite why anyone would want to drive through central during rush hour beats me.https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emissio...
The existing LEZ which incorporates most of the inner M25 is not changing, currently cars are exempt from this charge.
A lot of wishful thinking in this thread.
The demise of diesel, if and when it comes, will take decades. For example Land Rover does not offer a new Disco, Disco Sport or Evoque in any other flavour than diesel. BMW doesn't offer the X3 or X4 in petrol at all; for the X5 there's either the 5 litre petrol, or a wide range of diesel options; the X1 one petrol option vs many diesel choices. Audi similarly for their Q5 - one petrol vs 3 diesel engines; no petrol option for the Q7.
It would be interesting to see the figures for BMW 3 and 5 series sales and in particular what the proportion of diesel to petrol sales are.
The demise of diesel, if and when it comes, will take decades. For example Land Rover does not offer a new Disco, Disco Sport or Evoque in any other flavour than diesel. BMW doesn't offer the X3 or X4 in petrol at all; for the X5 there's either the 5 litre petrol, or a wide range of diesel options; the X1 one petrol option vs many diesel choices. Audi similarly for their Q5 - one petrol vs 3 diesel engines; no petrol option for the Q7.
It would be interesting to see the figures for BMW 3 and 5 series sales and in particular what the proportion of diesel to petrol sales are.
AmitG said:
Not all. Quite a few Japanese cars are still available with N/A petrol engines. Off the top of my head Honda, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru all do them.
Most manufactures Still have a n/a petrol in the line up. Ford still have a 1.25 in the fiesta.The problem with getting co2 below 160g is how they will do it, will the amount of engineering and technology used to achieve it make petrols as dodgy as diesels are thought to be. Will
There be a equviliant of a DPF?
Nickbrapp said:
AmitG said:
Not all. Quite a few Japanese cars are still available with N/A petrol engines. Off the top of my head Honda, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru all do them.
Most manufactures Still have a n/a petrol in the line up. Ford still have a 1.25 in the fiesta.The problem with getting co2 below 160g is how they will do it, will the amount of engineering and technology used to achieve it make petrols as dodgy as diesels are thought to be. Will
There be a equviliant of a DPF?
TX.
Govt encourages switch to diesel to reduce co2 emissions through lower taxation.
People switch to diesel. Manufacturers make petrol engines more efficient through direct fuel injection, turbos etc. making petrol engines more like diesel and learn how to cheat the emissions test.
Government loses tax revenue. Shifts focus to particulates, raises tax again
People switch to diesel. Manufacturers make petrol engines more efficient through direct fuel injection, turbos etc. making petrol engines more like diesel and learn how to cheat the emissions test.
Government loses tax revenue. Shifts focus to particulates, raises tax again
Diderot said:
The demise of diesel, if and when it comes, will take decades. For example Land Rover does not offer a new Disco, Disco Sport or Evoque in any other flavour than diesel. BMW doesn't offer the X3 or X4 in petrol at all; for the X5 there's either the 5 litre petrol, or a wide range of diesel options; the X1 one petrol option vs many diesel choices. Audi similarly for their Q5 - one petrol vs 3 diesel engines; no petrol option for the Q7.
It would be interesting to see the figures for BMW 3 and 5 series sales and in particular what the proportion of diesel to petrol sales are.
I'm not so sure. For many of these cars, petrol versions are already sold in other countries, so much of the engineering has already been done. The reason they are not sold in the UK is due to demand. Obviously there is work to be done in converting to RHD and other stuff, but that is surely possible in many cases.It would be interesting to see the figures for BMW 3 and 5 series sales and in particular what the proportion of diesel to petrol sales are.
For example the new Passat is only available as diesel in the UK. No petrol option whatsoever. However, petrol versions are available in other countries, and VW is apparently now fast-tracking a petrol version for the UK...
I think there will be a switch to petrol mainly due to the extortinate costs that needs to be spent to lower the particulates even further.
There are many reasons that the switch happened to diesel but the green lobby must hold their hands up to a big proportion of blame. It also suited the oil refiners as it is less expensive to refine diesel than petrol. It suited the manufacturers as they could offer economy to people which was worth them buying new cars to gain, or so it seemed.
What will happen is a mix of things that will change what propulsion is used. councils will charge diesel users more, tax will change and new technologies will start to work. For example in Norway the Tesla is the biggest selling executive car we were told last week when there. Cheap electric is the driving force there.
There is a big push on EV and to be honest for most people they work fine for the vast majority of use they have for them. As range of batteries expands they will be come the norm in the UK for the most part in the next 10 years or so.
You only have to see just how many hybrids and Ev that are now out there that do not look like a clown car to see that.
The big polluters buses and trucks will still need diesel as they are a long way off workable alternatives.
There are many reasons that the switch happened to diesel but the green lobby must hold their hands up to a big proportion of blame. It also suited the oil refiners as it is less expensive to refine diesel than petrol. It suited the manufacturers as they could offer economy to people which was worth them buying new cars to gain, or so it seemed.
What will happen is a mix of things that will change what propulsion is used. councils will charge diesel users more, tax will change and new technologies will start to work. For example in Norway the Tesla is the biggest selling executive car we were told last week when there. Cheap electric is the driving force there.
There is a big push on EV and to be honest for most people they work fine for the vast majority of use they have for them. As range of batteries expands they will be come the norm in the UK for the most part in the next 10 years or so.
You only have to see just how many hybrids and Ev that are now out there that do not look like a clown car to see that.
The big polluters buses and trucks will still need diesel as they are a long way off workable alternatives.
With Diesel at £5.08 per gallon(111.9) & Petrol at £5.21 per gallon(114.9) why would you want the petrol version of a 2.0 Petrol Mondeo A4 3 Series etc.
When the difference between a petrol 320i vs 320d including road tax is £515 per year.
They both have Turbos Direct Injection DMF/DPF so both now run the same risk of big bills, so for me the question is, On run of the mill cars like the above why would you buy the petrol?
When the difference between a petrol 320i vs 320d including road tax is £515 per year.
They both have Turbos Direct Injection DMF/DPF so both now run the same risk of big bills, so for me the question is, On run of the mill cars like the above why would you buy the petrol?
ZX10R NIN said:
With Diesel at £5.08 per gallon(111.9) & Petrol at £5.21 per gallon(114.9) why would you want the petrol version of a 2.0 Petrol Mondeo A4 3 Series etc.
When the difference between a petrol 320i vs 320d including road tax is £515 per year.
They both have Turbos Direct Injection DMF/DPF so both now run the same risk of big bills, so for me the question is, On run of the mill cars like the above why would you buy the petrol?
Because its not a diesel? When the difference between a petrol 320i vs 320d including road tax is £515 per year.
They both have Turbos Direct Injection DMF/DPF so both now run the same risk of big bills, so for me the question is, On run of the mill cars like the above why would you buy the petrol?
I've had a couple of diesels. Never again.
I just don't like how they drive.
If you do then fine.
As for are they becoming less common, sadly not. The buying public is still brainwashed by the 'savings' and the 'eco-friendly' low CO2 figures as opposed to the whole life costs of a car and it total environmental impact.
lostkiwi said:
Because its not a diesel?
I've had a couple of diesels. Never again.
I just don't like how they drive.
If you do then fine.
As for are they becoming less common, sadly not. The buying public is still brainwashed by the 'savings' and the 'eco-friendly' low CO2 figures as opposed to the whole life costs of a car and it total environmental impact.
When talking about total environmental impacts electric cars are far worse but are now being hailed as the new savior.I've had a couple of diesels. Never again.
I just don't like how they drive.
If you do then fine.
As for are they becoming less common, sadly not. The buying public is still brainwashed by the 'savings' and the 'eco-friendly' low CO2 figures as opposed to the whole life costs of a car and it total environmental impact.
Petrol Diesel it's all about individual choice but as a daily driver I think it depends on use B road fun then it's Petrol Motorway work then it'll be a diesel.
I fear where this is all heading (taxation, emission zones etc) - diesel cars will be the main target but you can be pretty sure anything bar grim little Eco s
tboxes will be hit in the crossfire. In comparison with other EU countries we are relatively free to drive what we want, where we want. Enjoy it while it lasts.
tboxes will be hit in the crossfire. In comparison with other EU countries we are relatively free to drive what we want, where we want. Enjoy it while it lasts. AmitG said:
I'm not so sure. For many of these cars, petrol versions are already sold in other countries, so much of the engineering has already been done. The reason they are not sold in the UK is due to demand. Obviously there is work to be done in converting to RHD and other stuff, but that is surely possible in many cases.
For example the new Passat is only available as diesel in the UK. No petrol option whatsoever. However, petrol versions are available in other countries, and VW is apparently now fast-tracking a petrol version for the UK...
I don't think the conversion to right hand drive is a problem either. I know for instance that the Discovery (now diesel only in the UK) is offered in Australia with the 3.0 supercharged petrol V6 and that's obviously right hand drive.For example the new Passat is only available as diesel in the UK. No petrol option whatsoever. However, petrol versions are available in other countries, and VW is apparently now fast-tracking a petrol version for the UK...
The same is probably true too for the others that are diesel only in the UK.
ZX10R NIN said:
With Diesel at £5.08 per gallon(111.9) & Petrol at £5.21 per gallon(114.9) why would you want the petrol version of a 2.0 Petrol Mondeo A4 3 Series etc.
When the difference between a petrol 320i vs 320d including road tax is £515 per year.
They both have Turbos Direct Injection DMF/DPF so both now run the same risk of big bills, so for me the question is, On run of the mill cars like the above why would you buy the petrol?
The petrol 320i has a diesel particulate filter? Righto. I think you need to take that back, chap. When the difference between a petrol 320i vs 320d including road tax is £515 per year.
They both have Turbos Direct Injection DMF/DPF so both now run the same risk of big bills, so for me the question is, On run of the mill cars like the above why would you buy the petrol?
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