Is diesel in decline?

[lord trumpton]

I recently bought the wife a Skoda with a '1.2 tsi 105' petrol engine instead of the usual diesel sipper. What a belter of an engine!

Pulls cleanly and strongly from low rpm, sounds OK and is currently averaging 45mpg and its done less that 1k miles so will improve.

No clattery, smelly engines in our household now.

Now manufacturers are turnng to forced induction then TD's are losing their USP - ie the strong in gear pull.

[ZX10R NIN]

All that jazz said:

The petrol 320i has a diesel particulate filter? Righto. I think you need to take that back, chap.

Quite correct but they do have a similar filter.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Nickbrapp said:

AmitG said:

Not all. Quite a few Japanese cars are still available with N/A petrol engines. Off the top of my head Honda, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru all do them.

Most manufactures Still have a n/a petrol in the line up. Ford still have a 1.25 in the fiesta.

The problem with getting co2 below 160g is how they will do it, will the amount of engineering and technology used to achieve it make petrols as dodgy as diesels are thought to be. Will
There be a equviliant of a DPF?

Yep. The GPF. Been in testing for years already. PEtrols produce less PM by mass, but often the particulate count is higher. They're much much smaller particles and they're more difficult to trap. This is actually more of a problem on direct injection petrol engines and GPFs are seen as one of the technologies that will enable them to exist and pass the 2017 emissions test.

Petrols are more handy though because they have the right exhaust temps to burn off PM right away (PM needs 600 deg, something diesels can't do without help). Though oxygen isnt as abundant (if at all sometimes) in petrol exhaust so how they do GPF regen via oxidation, I don't know. Happily they seem to be working on combining the three-way cat with the GPF, so there won't be additional filters in the exhaust stream.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 3rd August 09:37

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 3rd August 09:39

[lostkiwi]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Nickbrapp said:

AmitG said:

Not all. Quite a few Japanese cars are still available with N/A petrol engines. Off the top of my head Honda, Toyota, Lexus and Subaru all do them.

Most manufactures Still have a n/a petrol in the line up. Ford still have a 1.25 in the fiesta.

The problem with getting co2 below 160g is how they will do it, will the amount of engineering and technology used to achieve it make petrols as dodgy as diesels are thought to be. Will
There be a equviliant of a DPF?

Yep. The GPF. Been in testing for years already.

I thought Microsoft perfected the GPF years ago......
(I'll get my coat)

[mikecooperuk]

I lease my cars so can go with the flow, diesels have usually been the cheaper deals, hence going with them- and the fuel economy has been very good too.
That said, my mileage isn't high and I much prefer petrol engines for the most part. Test driven some V6 diesels over the years, they've been pretty nice- much smoother than the 4 cyl that prevail now.

In the short term, with diesel now on a par with petrol price (round my way at least), only helps keep motoring costs down.

As I change cars quite regularly, should the tide change it's not a problem for me whichever really...

[SuperHangOn]

billzeebub said:

Really hope so

The ULEZ also says petrol cars will have to meet Euro 4. That would rule out either of your cars for example.

Be careful what you wish for!

[andy-xr]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

For the first time for years diesel is cheaper than petrol at the pumps. Only a penny or so, but it's odd ain't it?

I thought this too, noticed it last week. I bought a 2.0 diesel because it was a better option than the 1.8 petrol for the car I wanted, just a crappy old hearse like MPV. I have no idea how many mpg it gets yet, all I know is I stuck some diesel in it a fortnight ago and it doesnt want any more yet.

I ran an S Type Jag for about 2 years, the 4.0 V8 one and that got a bit tiring with refills. I only bought it because my commute went from 120 miles a day to 5 instead, so I didnt care about the price. When it came to long trips though where the Jag would have been great, we also have a KA that does double the mpg of the Jag, so it made more sense to take that instead. So the Jag didnt get used as much

I seem to end up buying the cars no-one else wants or thinks are on trend anyway, but generally they've been bought because I either want or need them. I'm probably not going to be buying anything under 5 years old for the foreseeable, and I have no plans to drive to That London, so I think I'll be OK with whatever fuel choice for a while.

[IATM]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

For the first time for years diesel is cheaper than petrol at the pumps. Only a penny or so, but it's odd ain't it?

I noticed this just last week. I had a blink a couple of times to make sure what I was seeing was correct!
I think its been near enough a decade since the diesel was cheaper than petrol.

will be a very interesting used market in the next 5 years for all the 2 litre diesel cars around, esp A4's, c classes, 320d's

[wile7]

Q. Is Diesel in decline (passenger cars, not tractors etc.)
A. Yes, I think so.

Why?
French market a good barometer for all things diesel. Last sales quarter saw petrol engined cars outsell diesels for first time. Sacrebleu!

French government have quietly withdrawn any fiscal help for manufactures selling diesel models and at the pumps diesel no longer getting the same fiscal help (hence prices similar to 95 Ron nowadays).

New breeds of small petrol engines more refined, economical and dare I say environmentally friendly.

And Maserati have produced a diesel Quattroporte FFS. That should kill diesel off as who is going to own up to owning a diesel Masser? Except maybe a chic Parisian taxi company...

Footnote: watch the price of decent V6 and V8 petrol cars rise though....collectors corner just got exciting

[willmagrath]

If I wanted a petrol family car, it would have to have a turbo to be on par with the diesel equivalent. N/A petrols just don't have the punch that diesels do to haul the weight.

[anonymous-user]

Diesel certainly isn't in decline.
I have recently overheard some yoofs talking about their torque figures and MPG when comparing his Leon to a Golf.
Used to be BHP and 0-60...

[fivepointnine]

Diderot said:

A lot of wishful thinking in this thread.

The demise of diesel, if and when it comes, will take decades. For example Land Rover does not offer a new Disco, Disco Sport or Evoque in any other flavour than diesel. BMW doesn't offer the X3 or X4 in petrol at all; for the X5 there's either the 5 litre petrol, or a wide range of diesel options; the X1 one petrol option vs many diesel choices. Audi similarly for their Q5 - one petrol vs 3 diesel engines; no petrol option for the Q7.

It would be interesting to see the figures for BMW 3 and 5 series sales and in particular what the proportion of diesel to petrol sales are.

It is the opposite in the US, all those vehicles listed have multiple petrol choices and very very few diesel choices. Not really applicable to the UK obviously, but it goes to show that the UK market obviously still demands diesel.

[anonymous-user]

willmagrath said:

If I wanted a petrol family car, it would have to have a turbo to be on par with the diesel equivalent. N/A petrols just don't have the punch that diesels do to haul the weight.

What do you haul about? Tanks?