Should people who crash be punished more

[Zod]

eyebeebe said:

Switzerland has this.

I had a meeting of cup tyres and standing water incident on the motorway. Outcome was spinning and hitting the armco. Fortunately no other cars involved. Car was a write off. On top of this I got a tariff three month ban and a £400 fine for "not being in control of the vehicle". I think there may have been some other admin fees as well. This is pretty common if you have an accident here - basically someone is always to blame.

There's an absurd judgemental tendency here. I'm not part of it, but I hope you don't mind my asking whether you lifted off.

[kiseca]

xRIEx said:

kiseca said:

xRIEx, what is your point exactly? You agree that people make mistakes, and that mistakes could have been avoided by miking different decisions.. all very logical but I'm strugglingt to work out how you want to apply this truism practically? Are you saying people should stop making bad decisions, or make fewer bad decisions, and do you support greater punishment for these mistakes, or are you saying something different?

The only point (if it's even a point, I don't think it is) I'm making is that what Pete317 said I said, I didn't say.

Ok, I understand.

[TransverseTight]

You could go eye for an eye on this.

If you cause a traffic jam that causes an 6 minutes delay for 10 people then you get 1 hours community service - assuming the crash wasn't an accident but you driving craply.

The extreme would obviously the M1 being closed for 4 hours where 20,000 cars containing 35,000 people sit missing their planes and ferry connections and job interviews and chance to save people lives in hospital. In that case only the death penalty would suffice. Or in our namby pamby society life in prison. ;-)

[surveyor]

Yup. Here we go again.

[lostkiwi]

V8forweekends said:

Why would they tell lies on telly? I thought half the point of these shows was PR for the rozzers?

Edit - maybe we should do a FOI to see how many RTAs attended by Police result in charges - I bet it's fewer than you think.

You answered your own question....PR. Since when has PR and truth belonged in the same sentence?

[Rangeroverover]

Magic919 said:

Give them recupursions. I'll have to look that up.

see thread above

"would an illiterate seller put you off"

[Batfink]

Surely the best way to improve our roads is not to punish but to prevent and educate?
If you take a good look at the driving test its pretty basic. Simple maneuvers, low speeds and generally single lanes. I would bring everything more in line with Finland where the testing is far more advanced. We need to have more high speed driving, better car control (and understanding of basic vehicle dynamics) and training for roads with multiple lanes (more than two)
A more complicated test needs more people to run it, trains the drivers better and if you added a retest every 5 years would generate a massive income. It would be win win win for the government. I really dont understand why its not been done..

[kiseca]

Batfink said:

Surely the best way to improve our roads is not to punish but to prevent and educate?
If you take a good look at the driving test its pretty basic. Simple maneuvers, low speeds and generally single lanes. I would bring everything more in line with Finland where the testing is far more advanced. We need to have more high speed driving, better car control (and understanding of basic vehicle dynamics) and training for roads with multiple lanes (more than two)
A more complicated test needs more people to run it, trains the drivers better and if you added a retest every 5 years would generate a massive income. It would be win win win for the government. I really dont understand why its not been done..

While I don't completely agree with the detail (I think that training on observational skills is more important for road safety than car control), you are IMO spot on here. The solution is better training, education and testing of drivers, and I would add improvements in safety features of cars, roads and pavement furniture etc to allow for those times when the human still gets it wrong - which we all will, given enough opportunities.

[swisstoni]

If you can't see how texting at 70mph could put a crimp in your day, I don't see what any scheme can do to help.

[swisstoni]

If you can't see how texting at 70mph could put a crimp in your day, I don't see what any scheme can do to help.

[daytona111r]

surveyor said:

In this country it seems accepted often that a crash is sufficient punishment and drivers often face no recupursions other than insurance costs etc.

But then you look at the chaos these muppets cause on the road network. In the summer it multiplies as people who should not go near our motorways do, and promptly crash into each other. Usually on a Friday afternoon.

Should there be a much harsher punishment for those involved?

There's an argument that some will make that the innocent party should not be punished, but in reality very few accidents can't be avoided by good observant driving.

Do you want a society in 10 years time where we all drive autonomous cars and it's socially unacceptable to drive yourself?? If so why are you on PH ???

[Mave]

daytona111r said:

Do you want a society in 10 years time where we all drive autonomous cars and it's socially unacceptable to drive yourself?? If so why are you on PH ???

Surely that's where we'll end up if driving standards deteriorate unchecked?

[vinnie01]

the only sanction as a result of a crash i'm aware of is a friend being requested to sit a driving course after crashing within his first year. Annoyingly for him the crash was the fault of the blind old fart that pulled out in front of him

[Petrolhead95]

A friend of a friend who is 19 has crashed and written off 3 cars so far. The latest one being where he tried entering a roundabout at twice the speed limit, taking out himself and a lamp post. People like him are why I pay almost £300 a month to insure my Fiesta ST.

[RobinBanks]

Petrolhead95 said:

A friend of a friend who is 19 has crashed and written off 3 cars so far. The latest one being where he tried entering a roundabout at twice the speed limit, taking out himself and a lamp post. People like him are why I pay almost £300 a month to insure my Fiesta ST.

You pay nearly £3600 per year on car insurance?

I think I'd just get a crapper car.

[shouldbworking]

A handful of examples of our ridiculously lenient punishment of drivers (apologies for wail link). As has often been said, if you want to murder someone in the uk, do it with a car...

£35
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/18/taxi-dri...

£305
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-who-cause...

£180
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-398901/Fur...

£200
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/12952587.Dea...

[henrycrun]

Cause crash on motorway - receive 1 year ban from motorways.

[Petrolhead95]

RobinBanks said:

You pay nearly £3600 per year on car insurance?

I think I'd just get a crapper car.

Cars are pretty much the only thing that keeps me happy. Driving a stter just sounds depressing!

[maurauth]

jimmybobby said:

Yes beyond doubt. I think a mandatory 6 points and £250 fine would be a good starting place. The fact of the matter is if you crash you deserve to be punished. As it stands no one learns anything from crashing as there insurance will sort it al out and they will just have to pay a little more the next year in insurance.

If i can drive a couple hundred thousand miles without crashing and I am not the brightest then others should be able to do the same. I have always been utterly baffled by people crashing on motorways. Is it really that hard to drive on a wide open piece of road without running into the objects around you???

Sorry, just picked your post at random buy this response is to everyone that says "so what the accident wasn't your fault, you could have avoided it if you were bring prepared".

Last year I was driving along a main road, I indicated right to turn into a side road.

There was a driver waiting to pull out of that side road and travel in the direction I was going. The traffic was light and there's loads of visibility on that junction.

As I was getting closer to the junction it was clear the other driver was looking, she looked left, right, left, right. We made eye contact as I was slowing down preparing to turn in.

She looked the other way again and then whilst looking in the wrong direction she pulled out straight into my drivers door as I was turning into the side road (whilst I was still on the main road!).

Is slowing down, waiting for eye contact and indicating well in advance not good enough?

What about many years ago when I was rear ended at a set of traffic lights that had been red for a good 10 seconds with me stopped there in a queue of traffic? Luckily I had left a gap and had my foot on the brake, if I was just sat there in first with clutch in / drive in auto on hold mode or were any closer to the car in front I would have gone barrelling into the back of the next car as well.

What should I have been doing that time, hand at the ready on the horn and been prepared to swerve out into the oncoming lane to avoid being hit?

[maurauth]

The only possible way this could fairly be implemented would be legally requiring both vehicles not to move until a police officer arrives at the scene to apportion blame in every RTC ever.

Sounds like a waste of police time. Also imagine how many claims will be made against the police officer's decision / appeals procedures. Requirements for further training on collision scene assessment etc

Bonkers.