Lotus Elise 111s or Honda S2000
Discussion
I have not long started a new job which enables me to afford a nice weekend toy. I have a budget of up to £12k.
Has anyone driven both of these cars and have an obvious preference? I want a raw, fun driving experience, so I am more drawn to the Elise, just not the issues some people have with them.
Can anyone offer another alternative to these cars?
Has anyone driven both of these cars and have an obvious preference? I want a raw, fun driving experience, so I am more drawn to the Elise, just not the issues some people have with them.
Can anyone offer another alternative to these cars?
Driven the 111R and I owned an SC vs the s2000. I have also driven a K series S but that was a long time ago.
You can't go wrong with either in my opinion but they both feel very different. A mate of mine was looking for a car about 2 years ago and I pointed him at the S2000 as it better suited his needs and he loves it. I had another who owned one from new and had it for about 8 years.
The S2000 is really a great car, a grown up Mx5 some people say but to me the engine gives it so much character that it deserves a better moniker. The Elise? Well this side of 50k new its the best handling car I can think of (not including the open top ones but I have not driven many so cannot compare).
Is this just for road? Occasional track day ? More track? If towards the latter I would suggest the Elise - as its a very cheap car in terms of consumables to track. More road and day to day perhaps the S2000. How many miles will you do?
Elise has the far more direct steering and because of its lightness - brakes so so well. S2000 has one of the slickest gearboxes I have ever driven. Elise's gearbox selection in comparison is woeful.
Handling is totally different btw - I owned the Elise hence would feel more comfortable regardless but the s2000 was a little tail happy in comparision.
Would probably be easier to correct that the Elise which is a little more pointy in terms of the limit but you'd have to be driving like a complete loon to hit it on the S2 Elise (on its original skinny tyres) whereas I have heard of too many S2000's hitting the ditch.
Practicalities - both are 2 seater cars but the S2000 has a decent boot and can just about fit two sets of golf clubs, whereas you cannot even get one into an Elise without removing all clubs. You can live with the smaller boot but it does make a difference to have something slightly bigger.
S2000 roof- so easy to put on and off... Elise - well its all manual and if you decide to take it with you, it also takes up most of that limited boot space.
The K-Series engine on the 111s is not quite as exciting as the VTEC on the S2000 - the latter does favour comparably to the yota 'R' engines too but (and its key) has to be driven at high revs. SC yoga engine is the best in my view (but seeing as I owned one I would say that).
So like i said - you cant really go wrong... both have very strong residuals (the mate who bought his s2000 two years ago could easily sell it for what he paid) so try both. Also do consider the practicality aspect - most of us can live with an Elise but its a bit more of a comittment vs the S2000, especially on a cold winters day...
For me it would be the Elise btw!
You can't go wrong with either in my opinion but they both feel very different. A mate of mine was looking for a car about 2 years ago and I pointed him at the S2000 as it better suited his needs and he loves it. I had another who owned one from new and had it for about 8 years.
The S2000 is really a great car, a grown up Mx5 some people say but to me the engine gives it so much character that it deserves a better moniker. The Elise? Well this side of 50k new its the best handling car I can think of (not including the open top ones but I have not driven many so cannot compare).
Is this just for road? Occasional track day ? More track? If towards the latter I would suggest the Elise - as its a very cheap car in terms of consumables to track. More road and day to day perhaps the S2000. How many miles will you do?
Elise has the far more direct steering and because of its lightness - brakes so so well. S2000 has one of the slickest gearboxes I have ever driven. Elise's gearbox selection in comparison is woeful.
Handling is totally different btw - I owned the Elise hence would feel more comfortable regardless but the s2000 was a little tail happy in comparision.
Would probably be easier to correct that the Elise which is a little more pointy in terms of the limit but you'd have to be driving like a complete loon to hit it on the S2 Elise (on its original skinny tyres) whereas I have heard of too many S2000's hitting the ditch.
Practicalities - both are 2 seater cars but the S2000 has a decent boot and can just about fit two sets of golf clubs, whereas you cannot even get one into an Elise without removing all clubs. You can live with the smaller boot but it does make a difference to have something slightly bigger.
S2000 roof- so easy to put on and off... Elise - well its all manual and if you decide to take it with you, it also takes up most of that limited boot space.
The K-Series engine on the 111s is not quite as exciting as the VTEC on the S2000 - the latter does favour comparably to the yota 'R' engines too but (and its key) has to be driven at high revs. SC yoga engine is the best in my view (but seeing as I owned one I would say that).
So like i said - you cant really go wrong... both have very strong residuals (the mate who bought his s2000 two years ago could easily sell it for what he paid) so try both. Also do consider the practicality aspect - most of us can live with an Elise but its a bit more of a comittment vs the S2000, especially on a cold winters day...
For me it would be the Elise btw!
They were both on my shortlist when I was last car shopping and I ended up with the Elise so I suppose it's fairly obvious which I preferred. The S2000 actually ended up a long way down the list - I drove several of them just in case it was a poorly set up car (both cares are very geometry sensitive) but eventually came to the conclusion that I just didn't like it.
The engine is a gem but that was the only thing I liked about the car - the steering is awful, both being too fast and utterly lacking in feel; the OEM damping feels rather dim-witted; the rear suspension despite being "technically" good, never feels very stable to me, as if the geometry is being allowed to change in undesirable ways; the cabin is even more cramped feeling than the Elise; I didn't even like the gearbox very much - it's just too smooth and over-synchroed for my tastes (I appreciate I'm in a very small minority there, though).
Despite the obviously superior engine in the Honda, I'd rather have an MX5 than an S2000; or an MR2; or even an MGTF. I'd love an S2000 engine in my Elise, though.
The engine is a gem but that was the only thing I liked about the car - the steering is awful, both being too fast and utterly lacking in feel; the OEM damping feels rather dim-witted; the rear suspension despite being "technically" good, never feels very stable to me, as if the geometry is being allowed to change in undesirable ways; the cabin is even more cramped feeling than the Elise; I didn't even like the gearbox very much - it's just too smooth and over-synchroed for my tastes (I appreciate I'm in a very small minority there, though).
Despite the obviously superior engine in the Honda, I'd rather have an MX5 than an S2000; or an MR2; or even an MGTF. I'd love an S2000 engine in my Elise, though.
You should consider the VX220 Turbo as well - the badge means they're cheaper than the Elise but very much blood brothers.
I bought one a couple of years ago after always hankering after an Elise buy didn't want to spend the money required for the Toyota engined ones, not regretted it for a second - goes like stink, handles fantastically & you don't see mamy around.
I bought one a couple of years ago after always hankering after an Elise buy didn't want to spend the money required for the Toyota engined ones, not regretted it for a second - goes like stink, handles fantastically & you don't see mamy around.
The problems with the K series are (these days) overstated. Any car still running will have had a proper HG fitted and steel dowels. If this was done properly, with a head skim, liner height checks, and a decent (non Camembert) gasket, then the thing will last the life of the car. I know a few Ks that have gone over 100k miles and are still running well, having had a HG that was properly sorted out at 30 or 40k. The bottom end of the engine is very solid. After the HG, the only things that fail are pistons if the thing is regularly run around at 7000rpm+. Drive it like a normal road car and they will last indefinitely.
Fit a set of Elise (or Exige) sized wheels and the VX220 handles very much like a (rather heavier) Elise. If you want straight line speed and don't mind turbochargers, it's a compelling car. I drove a VX but personally was not for me (noticably heavier and less sharp/communicative than an S1 Elise and I didn't want a turbo'd engine) but it's well worth trying both to see which you prefer.
I love the K Series and overall prefer it to the Toyota. Lighter, better sounding etc. Likewise the earlier cars, including the 111S have non served brakes and IMO better steering feel.
My car (S1 Sport 160) is going to have a few modifications this week - full brake upgrade, quick steering rack and quickshift gear change. My gear change as it stands is actually perfectly good. Whilst it may not be S2000 good, it is certainly not a weak link. Let's see how much better it can get...
I love the K Series and overall prefer it to the Toyota. Lighter, better sounding etc. Likewise the earlier cars, including the 111S have non served brakes and IMO better steering feel.
My car (S1 Sport 160) is going to have a few modifications this week - full brake upgrade, quick steering rack and quickshift gear change. My gear change as it stands is actually perfectly good. Whilst it may not be S2000 good, it is certainly not a weak link. Let's see how much better it can get...
battered said:
The problems with the K series are (these days) overstated. Any car still running will have had a proper HG fitted and steel dowels. If this was done properly, with a head skim, liner height checks, and a decent (non Camembert) gasket, then the thing will last the life of the car. I know a few Ks that have gone over 100k miles and are still running well, having had a HG that was properly sorted out at 30 or 40k. The bottom end of the engine is very solid. After the HG, the only things that fail are pistons if the thing is regularly run around at 7000rpm+. Drive it like a normal road car and they will last indefinitely.
Indeed. The old HGF thing is a non issue in my opinion. It is pretty cheap to fix if it goes anyway. And I think the Toyota engined cars are not without their own problems either. .I'd be dubious about a 1.8 K-series in a £500 Rover, but in a £15k Elise the prospect of a £400 bill is less of a concern. Whilst it's not expensive compared to similar cars, the Elise isn't a car to run on a shoestring.
The full costs of running an S2 111S as a low-mileage daily driver for 8 years are in my profile if you're interested.
The full costs of running an S2 111S as a low-mileage daily driver for 8 years are in my profile if you're interested.
Elise,
Drive both for piece of mind but an Elise especially in 111s flavour is a fantastic car.
The K-series is a great engine and cheap to fix if it breaks. The K-series cars also are lighter and have the un-assisted brakes which are a joy to use. The S1 111s also benefits from a short ratio box.
Sure the posters above will vouch for what an amazing car they are, can't see me ever getting rid of mine.
Drive both for piece of mind but an Elise especially in 111s flavour is a fantastic car.
The K-series is a great engine and cheap to fix if it breaks. The K-series cars also are lighter and have the un-assisted brakes which are a joy to use. The S1 111s also benefits from a short ratio box.
Sure the posters above will vouch for what an amazing car they are, can't see me ever getting rid of mine.
kambites said:
I'd be dubious about a 1.8 K-series in a £500 Rover, but in a £15k Elise the prospect of a £400 bill is less of a concern. Whilst it's not expensive compared to similar cars, the Elise isn't a car to run on a shoestring.
The full costs of running an S2 111S as a low-mileage daily driver for 8 years are in my profile if you're interested.
Good little blog! We have the same version The full costs of running an S2 111S as a low-mileage daily driver for 8 years are in my profile if you're interested.
kambites said:
I'd be dubious about a 1.8 K-series in a £500 Rover, but in a £15k Elise the prospect of a £400 bill is less of a concern. Whilst it's not expensive compared to similar cars, the Elise isn't a car to run on a shoestring.
The full costs of running an S2 111S as a low-mileage daily driver for 8 years are in my profile if you're interested.
Seems like you haven't got much in the way of modifications which is probably a good thing! I have got the bug so mine has:The full costs of running an S2 111S as a low-mileage daily driver for 8 years are in my profile if you're interested.
Upgraded radiator
Nitron NTR dampers
Upgraded toe links
S2 wiper arm
Quickshift gear change
Ali billed discs and RS42S
Quick steering rack
Still to do:
CR box and lightweight flywheel
Sports exhaust and induction
Seats and harnesses
Some DVA magic
And maybe an LSD. Then you can bury me in it!
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