Are the roads and traffic really that bad in the UK?
Discussion
Putting aside our immediate reaction if we are held up or hit a pothole I'd like to put forward a case for Britains road network and traffic movement being a lot better than many give it credit for.
It's a generalisation that British people love to moan, whether it's about traffic, the price of shopping, the weather, house prices who knows what.
BUT.
I do an awful lot of driving, about 20,000 miles a year on UK roads and I've also visited many major cities in the world too.
In the UK I work to deadlines, I have to be somewhere at a certain time and, invariably I am. I can pretty much always get where I want to at a decent pace and park up relatively easily. The road signs are excellent and the condition of the roads, whilst far from flawless is pretty good too.
If I go to London I expect a lot of traffic but it's nowhere near the chaos you find in Bangkok, Paris, LA, Rome and others.
The motorways I find are normally free flowing and I can average 60 miles an hour, good and well signposted service areas open 24 hours, the regular A roads I find are pretty food too with again superb signposting that's mikes ahead of anywhere else I've been.
Are we a bit guilty of complaining when actually things aren't that bad?
It's a generalisation that British people love to moan, whether it's about traffic, the price of shopping, the weather, house prices who knows what.
BUT.
I do an awful lot of driving, about 20,000 miles a year on UK roads and I've also visited many major cities in the world too.
In the UK I work to deadlines, I have to be somewhere at a certain time and, invariably I am. I can pretty much always get where I want to at a decent pace and park up relatively easily. The road signs are excellent and the condition of the roads, whilst far from flawless is pretty good too.
If I go to London I expect a lot of traffic but it's nowhere near the chaos you find in Bangkok, Paris, LA, Rome and others.
The motorways I find are normally free flowing and I can average 60 miles an hour, good and well signposted service areas open 24 hours, the regular A roads I find are pretty food too with again superb signposting that's mikes ahead of anywhere else I've been.
Are we a bit guilty of complaining when actually things aren't that bad?
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Sunday 2nd August 16:12
Thankyou4calling said:
Are we a bit guilty of complaining when actually things aren't that bad?
No. The quality of the road surfaces is awful, the motorways tell you that "tiredness kills" and yet there are only services every 50 miles, the roads are clogged with middle lane hoggers, roadworks with no work taking place, speed cameras and there just aren't enough roads. You only have to drive from France to England to see the night and day difference. Sure, other countries have speed cameras too, but not in the same way we do!Sushifiend said:
No. The quality of the road surfaces is awful, the motorways tell you that "tiredness kills" and yet there are only services every 50 miles, the roads are clogged with middle lane hoggers, roadworks with no work taking place, speed cameras and there just aren't enough roads. You only have to drive from France to England to see the night and day difference. Sure, other countries have speed cameras too, but not in the same way we do!
I'd say straight off you are falling into the trap of complaining about your perception but ignoring the facts. Where do you drive where services are 50 miles apart? Generally they are 15 or 20 miles I find. Speed cameras can only serve to slow the speed if traffic is exceeding the limit so you are contradicting yourself. On the ne hand you are saying the roads are clogged, on the other you're moaning about speed cameras, which, if the roads are clogged will be an irrelevance surely?
I've driven in at least twenty or thirty different countries and the UK is on average probably in the top five in terms of overall quality of actual roads.
We probably do have one of the most crowded road networks that I've experienced though, and certainly the one with the lowest number of traffic police per vehicle and the highest reliance on automated systems for policing the roads.
Overall I think we have pretty poor roads for our GDP but not exceptionally so. The single biggest problem with our roads, at least in the south of England, is the combination of a terrible public transport system and very high population density - there are just too many cars.
We probably do have one of the most crowded road networks that I've experienced though, and certainly the one with the lowest number of traffic police per vehicle and the highest reliance on automated systems for policing the roads.
Overall I think we have pretty poor roads for our GDP but not exceptionally so. The single biggest problem with our roads, at least in the south of England, is the combination of a terrible public transport system and very high population density - there are just too many cars.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 2nd August 15:21
Compared to a lot of countries, UK roads and traffic are very good. The traffic in Lagos, many indian cities, and many cities in South America is often truly biblical.
But comparing with those countries is an unfair comparison. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world, and it should be compared with peers.
I don't think we fare that badly, with a few notable exceptions. Our motorways are much busier than Spain, France and even Switzerland (probably because we don't charge for them). Inner cities (outside London) are a nightmare. London is a special case for all sorts of reasons.
But comparing with those countries is an unfair comparison. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world, and it should be compared with peers.
I don't think we fare that badly, with a few notable exceptions. Our motorways are much busier than Spain, France and even Switzerland (probably because we don't charge for them). Inner cities (outside London) are a nightmare. London is a special case for all sorts of reasons.
Sushifiend said:
You only have to drive from France to England to see the night and day difference.
I keep seeing people saying this about driving in the continent, and yet my experience has very much been the opposite, when I have driven on the continent the traffic has been slow and the standard of driving much worse. At the start of July I drove to Brussels, through operation stack and the m25, the worse traffic I saw was about 45 minutes outside Brussels, where the motorway ground to a halt, there were no gantries warning of it, or explaining what was happening, the eventual cause an hour later turned out to be roadworks, going from 4 lanes to 2, with the Belgiums being incapable of merging in any sensible system at all.Max5476 said:
I keep seeing people saying this about driving in the continent, and yet my experience has very much been the opposite, when I have driven on the continent the traffic has been slow and the standard of driving much worse.
I think the UK's standard of driving is actually pretty high by European standards and once you stray off the trunk roads (many of which you have to pay to use) the surfaces are worse than ours too, in my experience. Roo said:
Really?
Yes.A couple of examples.
The M4 is 184 miles, there are 11 service stations. That's one every 17 miles.
The M6 is 217 miles there are 18 service stations.. That's one every 12 miles.
The M5 is 154 miles, there are 12 service stations. That's one every 13 miles.
These are the first I looked at, plenty of other examples.
I know you'll find places where they are further apart but I'm looking at the UK as a whole.
Edited by Thankyou4calling on Sunday 2nd August 15:34
People love to complain, but the roads in Britain really aren't that bad. I think for the volume of traffic they see, our roads are actually in remarkably good condition. I've just spent a week in Poland, and whilst the inner city roads are mostly decent, their A and B roads are generally quite a bit worse than the equivalent in the UK in regards to surface condition.
My daily commute is mostly using the A12 between Witham and Colchester which I see as a fairly poor condition road, but compared to the road connecting Warsaw to Bialystok, it's comparatively excellent, although to be fair to the route from Warsaw to Bialystok, there's currently a hell of a lot of roadworks going on, so it's going to be infinitely improved once those are finished.
My daily commute is mostly using the A12 between Witham and Colchester which I see as a fairly poor condition road, but compared to the road connecting Warsaw to Bialystok, it's comparatively excellent, although to be fair to the route from Warsaw to Bialystok, there's currently a hell of a lot of roadworks going on, so it's going to be infinitely improved once those are finished.
Edited by George7 on Sunday 2nd August 15:31
George7 said:
People love to complain, but the roads in Britain really aren't that bad. I think for the volume of traffic they see, our roads are actually in remarkably good condition. I've just spent a week in Poland, and whilst the inner city roads are mostly decent, their A and B roads are generally quite a bit worse than the equivalent in the UK in regards to surface condition.
My daily commute is mostly using the A12 between Witham and Colchester which I see as a fairly poor condition road, but compared to the road connecting Warsaw to Bialystok, it's comparatively very smooth.
You should try Bulgaria. Once you get away from Sofia, there's plenty of "trunk roads" with mile after mile of surface you couldn't do more than 10mph on without ripping a wheel off your car. My daily commute is mostly using the A12 between Witham and Colchester which I see as a fairly poor condition road, but compared to the road connecting Warsaw to Bialystok, it's comparatively very smooth.
kambites said:
I've driven in at least twenty or thirty different countries and the UK is on average probably in the top five in terms of overall quality of actual roads.
We probably do have one of the most crowded road networks that I've experienced though, and certainly the one with the lowest number of traffic police per vehicle and the highest reliance on automated systems for policing the roads.
Overall I think we have pretty poor roads for our GDP but not exceptionally so. The single biggest problem with our roads, at least in the south of England, is the combination of a terrible public transport system and very high population density - there are just too many cars.
I agree with most if not all of this. We probably do have one of the most crowded road networks that I've experienced though, and certainly the one with the lowest number of traffic police per vehicle and the highest reliance on automated systems for policing the roads.
Overall I think we have pretty poor roads for our GDP but not exceptionally so. The single biggest problem with our roads, at least in the south of England, is the combination of a terrible public transport system and very high population density - there are just too many cars.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 2nd August 15:21
Come to India, the roads in the UK are heavenly in comparison.
George7 said:
My daily commute is mostly using the A12 between Witham and Colchester which I see as a fairly poor condition road, but compared to the road connecting Warsaw to Bialystok, it's comparatively excellent, although to be fair to the route from Warsaw to Bialystok, there's currently a hell of a lot of roadworks going on, so it's going to be infinitely improved once those are finished.
[/footnote]
Going in to specifics about your point about the A12, the surface isn't great (in terms of noise) but the road is predominantly concrete, and is structurally very sound. There's scabby surfacing around the top of Kelvedon, but that's just a skin on the top that (IMO) should be either replaced or removed altogether. To replace with a fully flexible (bituminous) construction would be removing a road which is (maybe) 95% servicable. And then there's the amount of traffic. The 3 lane section Marks Tey - Stanway carries 95,000 vehicles per day (or did, when I last calculated them about ten or so years ago). Combine that with the lack of a decent diversion route should there be any issues, and it will never cope with the demand put on it. [/footnote]
I won't even start to go in to the issues that would surround widening it!
But yeah, it certainly isn't the most enjoyable journey, I grant you.
Thankyou4calling said:
Yes.
A couple of examples.
The M4 is 184 miles, there are 11 service stations. That's one every 17 miles.
The M6 is 217 miles there are 18 service stations.. That's one every 12 miles.
The M5 is 154 miles, there are 12 service stations. That's one every 13 miles.
These are the first I looked at, plenty of other examples.
I know you'll find places where they are further apart but I'm looking at the UK as a whole.
For England (as Scottieland and Wales are devolved)A couple of examples.
The M4 is 184 miles, there are 11 service stations. That's one every 17 miles.
The M6 is 217 miles there are 18 service stations.. That's one every 12 miles.
The M5 is 154 miles, there are 12 service stations. That's one every 13 miles.
These are the first I looked at, plenty of other examples.
I know you'll find places where they are further apart but I'm looking at the UK as a whole.
Never more than 28 miles as a guide with infills between, all spacing restrictions now removed, expect to see more.
See page 14 para B6 for guide
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/strateg...
http://www.motorwayservices.info/map
Or for geekiness http://motorwayservicesonline.co.uk/Main_Page
Driver101 said:
They could be better, but they certainly aren't the worst.
This.I live in Dubai and the standard of driving is atrocious. It's a rare day I drive to and from work and not see at least one accident (often many) that creates a huge traffic jam.
When I'm home and drive in the UK it's blissful - even in heavy traffic.
OpulentBob said:
Going in to specifics about your point about the A12, the surface isn't great (in terms of noise) but the road is predominantly concrete, and is structurally very sound. There's scabby surfacing around the top of Kelvedon, but that's just a skin on the top that (IMO) should be either replaced or removed altogether. To replace with a fully flexible (bituminous) construction would be removing a road which is (maybe) 95% servicable. And then there's the amount of traffic. The 3 lane section Marks Tey - Stanway carries 95,000 vehicles per day (or did, when I last calculated them about ten or so years ago). Combine that with the lack of a decent diversion route should there be any issues, and it will never cope with the demand put on it.
I won't even start to go in to the issues that would surround widening it!
But yeah, it certainly isn't the most enjoyable journey, I grant you.
It's not terrible, to be fair. As you say, it's a noisy surface and generally a real mix of surfaces (some good, some bad), but there's very few holes and bad bumps. I drive a reasonably stiff car and I find it fine for the most part. You're also correct that any major work on the A12 would cause some pretty appalling traffic whilst they're carrying out the work. I'd prefer that they gradually resurface the worst bits.I won't even start to go in to the issues that would surround widening it!
But yeah, it certainly isn't the most enjoyable journey, I grant you.
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