I saw a Mercedes G Wagon today.
Discussion
lostkiwi said:
Yes that 0-60 was the G-wagen. The Jeep Wrangler is an accomplished vehicle but it can't touch a standard G-wagen. The G comes with difflocks on all axles, has decent articulation, and superior build quality. The Wrangler is a fashion statement, which has a lot to do with them becoming a gay icon.
As I said in an earlier post, if I was crossing the Sahara a G350 would be high on my list of preferred vehicles.
If you've ever heard of Tom Sheppard he uses a G for that very purpose. He rates them very highly indeed for their reliability, economy and ability.
Fast SUVs are a waste of time as they become so compromised in doing what they were designed for you may as well have an Audi Quattro of some flavour and get the better handling..
OK well I was sure that wasn't right so I just checked, the 0-60 of the G350 is over 9 seconds. I'm sure that figure you gave is a G63.As I said in an earlier post, if I was crossing the Sahara a G350 would be high on my list of preferred vehicles.
If you've ever heard of Tom Sheppard he uses a G for that very purpose. He rates them very highly indeed for their reliability, economy and ability.
Fast SUVs are a waste of time as they become so compromised in doing what they were designed for you may as well have an Audi Quattro of some flavour and get the better handling..
Good points, maybe you've got me there, I should admit I am certainly not a hardcore off-roader, certainly not crossing the Sahara!! I just go out and find tracks for fun, hence I like the idea of being able to take the roof panels and doors off and the simplicity and lower cost of the Jeep. Though my Range Rover (L405) does great at all I throw at it, even my old RR Sport really pulled through some trails I didn't expect it to.
As for fashion cars... well I think the G wagon is a huge fashion car right now, hence the Kardashians drive around in them (and why my fiancee wants one now LOL).
And yes, I don't get performance SUVs at all either. But I guess some people love them.
sealtt said:
OK well I was sure that wasn't right so I just checked, the 0-60 of the G350 is over 9 seconds. I'm sure that figure you gave is a G63.
Good points, maybe you've got me there, I should admit I am certainly not a hardcore off-roader, certainly not crossing the Sahara!! I just go out and find tracks for fun, hence I like the idea of being able to take the roof panels and doors off and the simplicity and lower cost of the Jeep. Though my Range Rover (L405) does great at all I throw at it, even my old RR Sport really pulled through some trails I didn't expect it to.
As for fashion cars... well I think the G wagon is a huge fashion car right now, hence the Kardashians drive around in them (and why my fiancee wants one now LOL).
And yes, I don't get performance SUVs at all either. But I guess some people love them.
Agree the RR is a very cable vehicle (all Land Rover products are). The biggest issue with the current crop of LR products is their heavy reliance on electronics to get things done. Electronics are fine where you have a dealer within 20 to 30 miles but not very helpful in the middle of nowhere. In my view this is where LR have made some bad calls. Good points, maybe you've got me there, I should admit I am certainly not a hardcore off-roader, certainly not crossing the Sahara!! I just go out and find tracks for fun, hence I like the idea of being able to take the roof panels and doors off and the simplicity and lower cost of the Jeep. Though my Range Rover (L405) does great at all I throw at it, even my old RR Sport really pulled through some trails I didn't expect it to.
As for fashion cars... well I think the G wagon is a huge fashion car right now, hence the Kardashians drive around in them (and why my fiancee wants one now LOL).
And yes, I don't get performance SUVs at all either. But I guess some people love them.
The Defender was always a good capable rugged fix anywhere vehicle but increasing electronic complexity has compromised it.
As for finding tracks a peeling the roof back its great - I did have a 101GS landy a few years back. With the roof off and the V8 bellowing it was brilliant and really would go almost anywhere (its an ex military only vehicle) ...
lostkiwi said:
Agree the RR is a very cable vehicle (all Land Rover products are). The biggest issue with the current crop of LR products is their heavy reliance on electronics to get things done. Electronics are fine where you have a dealer within 20 to 30 miles but not very helpful in the middle of nowhere. In my view this is where LR have made some bad calls.
The Defender was always a good capable rugged fix anywhere vehicle but increasing electronic complexity has compromised it.
As for finding tracks a peeling the roof back its great - I did have a 101GS landy a few years back. With the roof off and the V8 bellowing it was brilliant and really would go almost anywhere (its an ex military only vehicle) ...
It is worth considering though, that of the 8 billion people on this planet, the tiny number with the wealth to buy a £100k+ car almost entirely reside within a few cities on the planet, and they are all within easy distance of assistance. The Defender was always a good capable rugged fix anywhere vehicle but increasing electronic complexity has compromised it.
As for finding tracks a peeling the roof back its great - I did have a 101GS landy a few years back. With the roof off and the V8 bellowing it was brilliant and really would go almost anywhere (its an ex military only vehicle) ...
At the same time, there are today so few populations on this planet that cannot be reached by any type of car because of the absolutely massive global road building of the last 50 years that this concept of needing a rugged 4x4 is actually today a luxury concept in itself that the type of person who has the time and wealth to indulge in what has become a hobby is going to expect more luxury than the person thirty years ago for whom such a journey was a necessity.
The world has changed somewhat dramatically and things like the Range Rover, rather than being out of step, is highlighting this change. As is the G Wagon in its own way.
Having watched a bit of BTCC coverage on TV at the weekend, I know that if I had one of these vehicles I would soon have an attractive blonde girlfriend that likes sledding with Huskies and when the dogs turn their nose up at a stretch of water I could accommodate the model girlfriend, her model Huskies and the sled in it and cross the stretch of water keeping the girlfriend and dogs dry.
I seem to have forgotten the asterixed small print though.
I seem to have forgotten the asterixed small print though.
DonkeyApple said:
TooMany2cvs said:
DonkeyApple said:
MarshPhantom said:
Why should speed or luxury be a prime concern when it comes to choosing a 4x4?
Er, because since the 70s that is whatDonkeyApple said:
buyers of SUVs have wanted. 
Round these rural parts, the old Defenders and (masses of) Fourtraks are being replaced by Ford Rangers, Mitsu crewcabs, that sort of thing. Poverty spec, not bling. Steel wheels, no bull bars, solid colours... But there's also quite a few trotting around in Land Cruisers and the odd G-wagon. Again, not bling.
DonkeyApple said:
It is worth considering though, that of the 8 billion people on this planet, the tiny number with the wealth to buy a £100k+ car almost entirely reside within a few cities on the planet, and they are all within easy distance of assistance.
At the same time, there are today so few populations on this planet that cannot be reached by any type of car because of the absolutely massive global road building of the last 50 years that this concept of needing a rugged 4x4 is actually today a luxury concept in itself that the type of person who has the time and wealth to indulge in what has become a hobby is going to expect more luxury than the person thirty years ago for whom such a journey was a necessity.
The world has changed somewhat dramatically and things like the Range Rover, rather than being out of step, is highlighting this change. As is the G Wagon in its own way.
Its still pretty inconvenient when you're 5 miles up a muddy dirt track and the car refuses to go any further due to an electronic failure/broken sensor etc (as happened to us in a brand new RR when we did a Land Rover experience day at Eastnor and a sensor failed and the engine wouldn't restart). In some cases that could be life threatening (for example very bad weather). There are still plenty of places globally where the definition of a road is very different to what the western world defines as a road.At the same time, there are today so few populations on this planet that cannot be reached by any type of car because of the absolutely massive global road building of the last 50 years that this concept of needing a rugged 4x4 is actually today a luxury concept in itself that the type of person who has the time and wealth to indulge in what has become a hobby is going to expect more luxury than the person thirty years ago for whom such a journey was a necessity.
The world has changed somewhat dramatically and things like the Range Rover, rather than being out of step, is highlighting this change. As is the G Wagon in its own way.
As a teenager growing up in NZ my definition of a 'B' road (and some 'A' roads) was very different to what is available here being largely loose gravel surfaces and often rutted/washboard surfaces. Even some beaches are classified as roads in NZ. In Australia some roads are only passable in fine weather as the rain turns them into mud bogs. Same in parts of Africa, Asia and the far east (as well as eastern Europe).
It may be the market for a rugged 4x4 is a luxury here in the UK (good luck telling that to farmers) but that's narrow thinking. In a global market and thinking from a global perspective that's just not the case. In a global market the luxury SUV is still a luxury - and anathema to what is really often needed.
TooMany2cvs said:
DonkeyApple said:
TooMany2cvs said:
DonkeyApple said:
MarshPhantom said:
Why should speed or luxury be a prime concern when it comes to choosing a 4x4?
Er, because since the 70s that is whatDonkeyApple said:
buyers of SUVs have wanted.
Round these rural parts, the old Defenders and (masses of) Fourtraks are being replaced by Ford Rangers, Mitsu crewcabs, that sort of thing. Poverty spec, not bling. Steel wheels, no bull bars, solid colours... But there's also quite a few trotting around in Land Cruisers and the odd G-wagon. Again, not bling.
But if you have a small factory with limited production numbers then you have to put your product into the area with the highest margins and that will be the luxury end rather than utility.
It's interesting that within a couple of years of the Rangie being launched the market was demanding more luxury but Rover lacked the finances to deliver so a whole raft of independents jumped in to fill that spot. There were probably over 20 firms doing this. It wasn't until 1981 that Rover managed to deliver their own upgraded version called the In Vogue, trimmed by Wood and Pickett and the first 200 went instantly, so they did another 200 and then it just became all they built.
And it's similar with G Wagons. Mercedes couldn't built them cheaply enough to contend against the mass production of America or Japan or even their own robotised lines but independent specialists showed them that for the number they could build there was a market at the premium end.
lostkiwi said:
DonkeyApple said:
It is worth considering though, that of the 8 billion people on this planet, the tiny number with the wealth to buy a £100k+ car almost entirely reside within a few cities on the planet, and they are all within easy distance of assistance.
At the same time, there are today so few populations on this planet that cannot be reached by any type of car because of the absolutely massive global road building of the last 50 years that this concept of needing a rugged 4x4 is actually today a luxury concept in itself that the type of person who has the time and wealth to indulge in what has become a hobby is going to expect more luxury than the person thirty years ago for whom such a journey was a necessity.
The world has changed somewhat dramatically and things like the Range Rover, rather than being out of step, is highlighting this change. As is the G Wagon in its own way.
Its still pretty inconvenient when you're 5 miles up a muddy dirt track and the car refuses to go any further due to an electronic failure/broken sensor etc (as happened to us in a brand new RR when we did a Land Rover experience day at Eastnor and a sensor failed and the engine wouldn't restart). In some cases that could be life threatening (for example very bad weather). There are still plenty of places globally where the definition of a road is very different to what the western world defines as a road.At the same time, there are today so few populations on this planet that cannot be reached by any type of car because of the absolutely massive global road building of the last 50 years that this concept of needing a rugged 4x4 is actually today a luxury concept in itself that the type of person who has the time and wealth to indulge in what has become a hobby is going to expect more luxury than the person thirty years ago for whom such a journey was a necessity.
The world has changed somewhat dramatically and things like the Range Rover, rather than being out of step, is highlighting this change. As is the G Wagon in its own way.
As a teenager growing up in NZ my definition of a 'B' road (and some 'A' roads) was very different to what is available here being largely loose gravel surfaces and often rutted/washboard surfaces. Even some beaches are classified as roads in NZ. In Australia some roads are only passable in fine weather as the rain turns them into mud bogs. Same in parts of Africa, Asia and the far east (as well as eastern Europe).
It may be the market for a rugged 4x4 is a luxury here in the UK (good luck telling that to farmers) but that's narrow thinking. In a global market and thinking from a global perspective that's just not the case. In a global market the luxury SUV is still a luxury - and anathema to what is really often needed.
Modern luxury SUVs are an evolution of the Estate car in reality. The Ute or pick up is the evolution of the original 4x4.
Both might have AWD but that is an evolutionary throwback and not something essential to either branches. For decades you've been able to buy the commercial vehicles as 2wd as well as 4 WD and you can now see this in the luxury market. What was, 70 years ago the single feature that defined the spawning of this product has today become almost a footnote and is certainly no longer the key ingredient.
DonkeyApple said:
But again, rich people tend not to live in such areas. In the global market they live in wealthy, urban environments statistically. The modern Range Rover is a Rolls Royce competitor that has a legacy of offroad capability that is maintained for branding. Just look at the Cayenne, where Porsche had no such legacy so didn't have to faff about with it.
Modern luxury SUVs are an evolution of the Estate car in reality. The Ute or pick up is the evolution of the original 4x4.
Both might have AWD but that is an evolutionary throwback and not something essential to either branches. For decades you've been able to buy the commercial vehicles as 2wd as well as 4 WD and you can now see this in the luxury market. What was, 70 years ago the single feature that defined the spawning of this product has today become almost a footnote and is certainly no longer the key ingredient.
Thats the point though. The G-Wagen manages the trick of being all things to all people. Its a classy rugged off roader with added comfort and style. Its not the one trick pony that is a modern Land Rover. Modern luxury SUVs are an evolution of the Estate car in reality. The Ute or pick up is the evolution of the original 4x4.
Both might have AWD but that is an evolutionary throwback and not something essential to either branches. For decades you've been able to buy the commercial vehicles as 2wd as well as 4 WD and you can now see this in the luxury market. What was, 70 years ago the single feature that defined the spawning of this product has today become almost a footnote and is certainly no longer the key ingredient.
You're also still thinking too narrow - this is a global market not just a UK one. What applies here does not necessarily apply to the rest of the world. In many parts of the planet AWD IS an essential and not merely an evolutionary footnote.
lostkiwi said:
DonkeyApple said:
But again, rich people tend not to live in such areas. In the global market they live in wealthy, urban environments statistically. The modern Range Rover is a Rolls Royce competitor that has a legacy of offroad capability that is maintained for branding. Just look at the Cayenne, where Porsche had no such legacy so didn't have to faff about with it.
Modern luxury SUVs are an evolution of the Estate car in reality. The Ute or pick up is the evolution of the original 4x4.
Both might have AWD but that is an evolutionary throwback and not something essential to either branches. For decades you've been able to buy the commercial vehicles as 2wd as well as 4 WD and you can now see this in the luxury market. What was, 70 years ago the single feature that defined the spawning of this product has today become almost a footnote and is certainly no longer the key ingredient.
Thats the point though. The G-Wagen manages the trick of being all things to all people. Its a classy rugged off roader with added comfort and style. Its not the one trick pony that is a modern Land Rover. Modern luxury SUVs are an evolution of the Estate car in reality. The Ute or pick up is the evolution of the original 4x4.
Both might have AWD but that is an evolutionary throwback and not something essential to either branches. For decades you've been able to buy the commercial vehicles as 2wd as well as 4 WD and you can now see this in the luxury market. What was, 70 years ago the single feature that defined the spawning of this product has today become almost a footnote and is certainly no longer the key ingredient.
You're also still thinking too narrow - this is a global market not just a UK one. What applies here does not necessarily apply to the rest of the world. In many parts of the planet AWD IS an essential and not merely an evolutionary footnote.
In terms of 'rest of the planet', out of the 8 billion people on it, very few live where AWD is essential. Very, very few. And conversely, the very few with £100k to throw on a non essential consumable, statistically, all live in the urban environment around a tiny handful of global megacities. With regards to the former, those who have to have AWD, just how many have the wealth to buy a hand made, European luxury 4x4 over a mass produced, cheap utility vehicle?
It's genuinely two wholly separate markets that are only linked by an evolutionary legacy and even then when you relly look at that lineage you realise that link isn't really there.
t that they actually look great. Imo.DonkeyApple said:
I agree in terms of legacy, completely. But you would be even less likely to take a G63 offroad than a Rangie.
In terms of 'rest of the planet', out of the 8 billion people on it, very few live where AWD is essential. Very, very few. And conversely, the very few with £100k to throw on a non essential consumable, statistically, all live in the urban environment around a tiny handful of global megacities. With regards to the former, those who have to have AWD, just how many have the wealth to buy a hand made, European luxury 4x4 over a mass produced, cheap utility vehicle?
It's genuinely two wholly separate markets that are only linked by an evolutionary legacy and even then when you relly look at that lineage you realise that link isn't really there.
Yes you would be pretty unlikely to take aG63 off road (though no reason why less likely than a Rangie) but that's not the point. You would be pretty likely to take G-Wagen that's not a G63 off road. A G-Wagen is just as at home on the streets of Monaco as it is in the deserts of the Sahara. The way Steyr/MB have made such a complete vehicle is pretty impressive. In terms of 'rest of the planet', out of the 8 billion people on it, very few live where AWD is essential. Very, very few. And conversely, the very few with £100k to throw on a non essential consumable, statistically, all live in the urban environment around a tiny handful of global megacities. With regards to the former, those who have to have AWD, just how many have the wealth to buy a hand made, European luxury 4x4 over a mass produced, cheap utility vehicle?
It's genuinely two wholly separate markets that are only linked by an evolutionary legacy and even then when you relly look at that lineage you realise that link isn't really there.
A luxury SUV is pretty much a rich mans toy/penis extension/ego booster no matter what market you're in. The G-Wagen in one form or another transcends that distinction by being a genuine working vehicle (as used by the German military) as well as a rich man's toy (G63). Thats a pretty complete portfolio for just a single basic vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a G63 (and I would take it to get dirty) but I'd be equally happy with a G350 or an older G270 etc.
They are the German equivalent of a Defender but with developed to get a broader market appeal and something the Defender (or any modern Land Rover for that matter) hasn't got - build quality.
lostkiwi said:
Yes you would be pretty unlikely to take aG63 off road (though no reason why less likely than a Rangie) but that's not the point. You would be pretty likely to take G-Wagen that's not a G63 off road. A G-Wagen is just as at home on the streets of Monaco as it is in the deserts of the Sahara. The way Steyr/MB have made such a complete vehicle is pretty impressive.
A luxury SUV is pretty much a rich mans toy/penis extension/ego booster no matter what market you're in. The G-Wagen in one form or another transcends that distinction by being a genuine working vehicle (as used by the German military) as well as a rich man's toy (G63). Thats a pretty complete portfolio for just a single basic vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a G63 (and I would take it to get dirty) but I'd be equally happy with a G350 or an older G270 etc.
They are the German equivalent of a Defender but with developed to get a broader market appeal and something the Defender (or any modern Land Rover for that matter) hasn't got - build quality.
The only reason a G wagon is at home on the streets of Monaco is because it's a fashion car and is seriously in vogue right now. Like pretty much the ultimate fashion car currently. But in terms of actually doing on-road work, it is hugely inferior to say the Range Rover - as you would expect given the G-Wagon's chassis setup, rugged interior style and so on. It's certainly not optimised in any way to provide a great on-road driving experience in any conventional sense - unless of course you love more than anything seeing people gawp as you drive by.A luxury SUV is pretty much a rich mans toy/penis extension/ego booster no matter what market you're in. The G-Wagen in one form or another transcends that distinction by being a genuine working vehicle (as used by the German military) as well as a rich man's toy (G63). Thats a pretty complete portfolio for just a single basic vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love a G63 (and I would take it to get dirty) but I'd be equally happy with a G350 or an older G270 etc.
They are the German equivalent of a Defender but with developed to get a broader market appeal and something the Defender (or any modern Land Rover for that matter) hasn't got - build quality.
I understand the initial idea of buying a G-wagon as a primarily off-road vehicle, maybe you live on a farm and have a lot of rough terrain to get around, but if I was going to do that I can't see why I'd bother spending £90k when I could easily buy a lightly used one, a lightly used G500 or buy a Defender for a fraction of the price. If money was no issue, I would just buy the G63. This is why I just don't really get the G350.
I guess it's primarily an image / fashion purchase buying a brand new G350 for a large percentage of buyers, who maybe couldn't stretch to the G63?? I can't see why else you would buy one new, as there are not many people (in the UK anyway) going out and buying a brand new G350 primarily for off-road work, and in any other discipline (other than image) it is inferior to the competition. This was my point I was trying to make in the first post.
Maybe I underestimate the number of people who buy cars primarily for serious off-road work. To me it was a secondary purpose as I drive 98% of my mileage on-road. But then there are people who drive around in Lotus Elises as a daily driver to be able to enjoy those rare moments the road opens up, so maybe I just don't get it, and am too obsessed with sitting comfortably & in luxury on my motorway cruises!!
sealtt said:
... in terms of actually doing on-road work, it is hugely inferior to say the Range Rover - as you would expect given the G-Wagon's chassis setup, rugged interior style and so on. It's certainly not optimised in any way to provide a great on-road driving experience in any conventional sense ...
But thats not what they are about. They are unashamedly a 4x4, not a road going off road wannabe. Don't get me wrong I have a huge respect for the RR and its abilities but its not a proper 4x4 in that it far more road biased and too soft underneath, too reliant on electronics and too fragile to be a proper 4x4. sealtt said:
I understand the initial idea of buying a G-wagon as a primarily off-road vehicle, maybe you live on a farm and have a lot of rough terrain to get around, but if I was going to do that I can't see why I'd bother spending £90k when I could easily buy a lightly used one, a lightly used G500 or buy a Defender for a fraction of the price. If money was no issue, I would just buy the G63. This is why I just don't really get the G350.
The same argument applies to any vehicle - a second hand one is always cheaper than a new one yet people will still buy the new one. sealtt said:
I guess it's primarily an image / fashion purchase buying a brand new G350 for a large percentage of buyers, who maybe couldn't stretch to the G63?? I can't see why else you would buy one new, as there are not many people (in the UK anyway) going out and buying a brand new G350 primarily for off-road work, and in any other discipline (other than image) it is inferior to the competition. This was my point I was trying to make in the first post.
Inferior in what way? On the road compared to an RR or a Disco then yes. Off road? No way. And it has two things missing from all the competition - build quality and residuals.Even a 20 year old G55 will set you back £20k or more.
sealtt said:
Maybe I underestimate the number of people who buy cars primarily for serious off-road work. To me it was a secondary purpose as I drive 98% of my mileage on-road. But then there are people who drive around in Lotus Elises as a daily driver to be able to enjoy those rare moments the road opens up, so maybe I just don't get it, and am too obsessed with sitting comfortably & in luxury on my motorway cruises!!
The reasons people buy things like this are as varied as people themselves. Reliability, build quality, uniqueness, image, lifestyle and ability to do anything asked of them (albeit in some cases not as well as other options) are all attractive to some people. Some would probably buy one because its not a Land Rover product!The Defender is another case in point. They're noisy, slow, uncomfortable, unreliable and not actually that practical yet they have a massive following and and are highly regarded by many (especially those like myself who have (had) one). Why would anyone spend £30k on a Defender that never leaves tarmac instead of buying a Transit (which shares its engine and is more practical, comfortable and 2/3rds the price)? Yet a good many people do! Granted the G350 is three times the price but IMHO a far superior vehicle too in virtually every way (as a Defender owner). There are even seriously blinged up versions of the Defender available for those willing to spend the money and that will take the price seriously towards G-Wagen territory (but without the underlying build quality - its still powered by a Transit engine).
Roger Crathorne (sometimes referred to as Mr Land Rover) has freely admitted that the G-Wagen (which pre-dates the Defender) would have killed LR if they had made a proper short wheelbase utility vehicle and has also said MBs mistake was to try to compete with the RR instead of the Defender, a choice which made the G-Wagen too expensive to directly compete with the Defender.
As a result the G-Wagen falls into a category which is unique. A moderately refined high quality, high capability robust vehicle that really can do anything asked of it. One that can get dented and wear the dents as a badge of honour as opposed to just being scruffy. Its a vehicle that doesn't try to be a car (or even too car -like). Its a vehicle that know its roots and isn't ashamed of them. One that's brutally honest and says I don't give a monkey's what you think, this is me. Maybe that's why folk buy them.
Thanks for taking the time write your points, it's really interesting to read & I love discussing different opinions on cars. You have definitely got me far more convinced of the merits of a new G350 than when I entered the thread!
My main point with the on-road ability was that you said it's just at home hitting the Sahara as it is Monaco. To me I feel that a G-wagon in Monaco, or any city or general on-road setting for that matter, is a big compromise vs other vehicles. That's based on me considering the purchase of a G-Wagon (pre-reg new one, 2014) and actually going there and trying it, compared to the L405 Vogue I went for in the end. On road it is compromised, it does not feel luxury at all to me, and to me it's not as much of a go anywhere, do anything vehicle for my lifestyle as the Range Rover as it's very compromised on-road, and I spend 98% of my time on road and do 20k-30k miles a year.
As for the image of the car, I really liked what you wrote, but unfortunately I don't think it is at all true for the G-Wagon today. I would say the car really does appeal a lot to people who DO give a monkeys what people think about them. As I said, they are pretty much the ultimate fashion car right now, so whilst maybe in the past that comment was true, I really don't think it is today. I bet a large % of buyers, are buying it because of the image - hence why my fiancee is so desperate for one, not that she will be getting one despite your convincing comments!
Not that I think there's anything wrong with buying something because of image, I am happy for people to do as they wish! I just think that the G350 is a really expensive way of going about it, either do it properly and get a G63 or spend 2/3 less and get a defender. But that's just me, I personally could never drive around in a Defender either as I love luxury and do a lot of miles. I also see Land Rover Defenders all over the place, occasionally pimped out, and i'm sure the vast majority are bought primarily for image (totally guessing here, but are there really that many people that need highly capable off road vehicles?). So I suppose the G350 is the same thing, just for people with more cash to burn on the whole thing - though why they don't go the whole way and get the G63 with that awesome engine and noise, I don't know.
Of course, those genuine factors you talk about all make sense, but I struggle to believe that those are the key motivators for much of a % of the actual people buying these new, I'm sure it's largely down to image, isn't it? I don't have stats, so maybe I'm way off. Would be very interesting to know, though you know most of the ones you see flying around city centres are 100% about image and for buying a car to show off in a city centre, I really think there are easier & more comfortable ways to do it than a £90k G350.
My main point with the on-road ability was that you said it's just at home hitting the Sahara as it is Monaco. To me I feel that a G-wagon in Monaco, or any city or general on-road setting for that matter, is a big compromise vs other vehicles. That's based on me considering the purchase of a G-Wagon (pre-reg new one, 2014) and actually going there and trying it, compared to the L405 Vogue I went for in the end. On road it is compromised, it does not feel luxury at all to me, and to me it's not as much of a go anywhere, do anything vehicle for my lifestyle as the Range Rover as it's very compromised on-road, and I spend 98% of my time on road and do 20k-30k miles a year.
As for the image of the car, I really liked what you wrote, but unfortunately I don't think it is at all true for the G-Wagon today. I would say the car really does appeal a lot to people who DO give a monkeys what people think about them. As I said, they are pretty much the ultimate fashion car right now, so whilst maybe in the past that comment was true, I really don't think it is today. I bet a large % of buyers, are buying it because of the image - hence why my fiancee is so desperate for one, not that she will be getting one despite your convincing comments!
Not that I think there's anything wrong with buying something because of image, I am happy for people to do as they wish! I just think that the G350 is a really expensive way of going about it, either do it properly and get a G63 or spend 2/3 less and get a defender. But that's just me, I personally could never drive around in a Defender either as I love luxury and do a lot of miles. I also see Land Rover Defenders all over the place, occasionally pimped out, and i'm sure the vast majority are bought primarily for image (totally guessing here, but are there really that many people that need highly capable off road vehicles?). So I suppose the G350 is the same thing, just for people with more cash to burn on the whole thing - though why they don't go the whole way and get the G63 with that awesome engine and noise, I don't know.
Of course, those genuine factors you talk about all make sense, but I struggle to believe that those are the key motivators for much of a % of the actual people buying these new, I'm sure it's largely down to image, isn't it? I don't have stats, so maybe I'm way off. Would be very interesting to know, though you know most of the ones you see flying around city centres are 100% about image and for buying a car to show off in a city centre, I really think there are easier & more comfortable ways to do it than a £90k G350.
Edited by sealtt on Wednesday 12th August 16:02
MarshPhantom said:
Why should speed or luxury be a prime concern when it comes to choosing a 4x4?
Until they start making estates that are as luxurious as the 4x4s you can buy what choice do we have?I don't want an S Class saloon, but I would buy a new GLE, I don't want a 7 series saloon and the 5 series is very nice, but hardly luxurious, but the X5 sort of does it, and Bentley don't make an estate, so it is a Range Rover.
Why buy a utilitarian 4x4 when you can have a luxurious one?
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