Anyone else caught by the 'business use' insurance trap?

[Bill]

saaby93 said:

My confusion
Wasnt the original intention class 1 business use for attending customer sites but not carry goods for sale i.e. consulting
Class 2 includes selling
So commuting to different sites wasnt a business use

That doesn't seem to be the case now. And if you give colleagues a lift between sites that also seems to be an issue. Fortunately class one use costs nothing IME.

[V8mate]

LV= made no extra charge for switching from travel to a single place of work, to travelling in connection with employer's business.

[Vacumatic]

Bill said:

That doesn't seem to be the case now. And if you give colleagues a lift between sites that also seems to be an issue. Fortunately class one use costs nothing IME.

The original basis for business use was that you could do sales calls and work on business but if you were calling at premises for appointments that were not prebooked that was commercial travelling. seems a silly difference to make nowadays, I am talking 1990s and prior.

Giving people a lift should not be an issue unless you charged for the journey - behaved like a taxi or did work for hire and reward.

[RobinBanks]

My brother got buggered by this while training to be a physiotherapist. His premiums moved up a lot to the point that he had to downgrade his car.

He wanted not to declare business use, but then he was advised that if he didn't, they may not pay his mileage. I'm not sure if they would have checked or not but he didn't want to lose out on that.

[anonymous-user]

This is usually quite straightforward.

If the business is paying you mileage then clearly it is 'business' and you then require business insurance, which is usually only about £20-30 a year more (from my experience anyway).

If you don't get paid business mileage because you are just commuting to work, then clearly you aren't on company time and don't need business insurance.

I appreciate its always with checking with your own insurer, but the above has been what I've always experienced.

Most companies will want to see your business insurance before paying milage for obvious reasons.

[speedking31]

Wanting business use on a car that is modified, and might normally be expected to only do limited weekend mileage, but which I use as a daily driver, limited the number of companies that would offer business cover for me.

[Bill]

NinjaPower said:

If you don't get paid business mileage because you are just commuting to work, then clearly you aren't on company time and don't need business insurance.

Not so IME, commuting only covers one site, if you use more than one you need class one business use even if your employer doesn't pay mileage. (You can claim additional mileage against tax though).

http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/wha...

[theboss]

The Spruce goose said:

I took a role as a contractor thru an umbrella company. I notice that to claim my mileage I needed business insurance.

That sounds like the tail wagging the dog, to me. Did they insist on seeing a policy schedule?

[RizzoTheRat]

NinjaPower said:

If you don't get paid business mileage because you are just commuting to work, then clearly you aren't on company time and don't need business insurance.

Depends on the wording of the policy. Mine conveniently got e-mailed to me the other day and says:

"SDP - Social, domestic and pleasure use only
SDP & Commuting - Social, domestic and pleasure including travelling to and from a permanent place of work
Class 1 - Social, domestic and pleasure including commuting to and from any place of business"

And then in Limitations of use says:
"Use for Social, Domestic and Pleasure purposes and by the policyholder in person in connection with his/her business profession, excluding commercial travelling."


So if Rays is the same he's not travelling to a permanent place of work so would need the extra. I have the business cover as I claim mileage travelling to other sites, but I'm not quite sure where they draw the line between that and commercial travelling.


Congrats on the new job Ray.

[saaby93]

Bill said:

Not so IME, commuting only covers one site, if you use more than one you need class one business use even if your employer doesn't pay mileage. (You can claim additional mileage against tax though).

http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/wha...

I think theres a distcinction there
If you travel to site A on Monday and site B on Tuesday that AFAIK is commuting
Beacuse youre doing it during commuting hours to get to your place of work it's a commuting risk

If however you travel to site A Monday then half through the day during business hours have to travel to site B for business then that's business use.
Because youre travelling from site A to site B due to business pressures it's a businees risk

Does that work

[Hackney]

Others have covered it (notably Valumatic) but worth reiterating from my experience.

I have business class 1 which covers me to and from fixed appointments with customers. ie, I'm not a traveling salesman going from call to call all day.

From your OP it sounds like on any given day you may be at a different base station. (Monday at point A, Tuesday at point B etc, etc)
To me this is a fixed commute ie you're only using the car to commute and nothing else, and your employer needs to review their guidelines.

If. however you go to base station every day and they say, "we need you at point A this morning and point B this afternoon" that's more like business use.

FWIW do check that "commuting" is included, many insurers have even removed this from the "social, domestic and pleasure" definition which is a bit sneaky of them. But hey, insurers.

[Bill]

saaby93 said:

I think theres a distcinction there
If you travel to site A on Monday and site B on Tuesday that AFAIK is commuting
Beacuse youre doing it during commuting hours to get to your place of work it's a commuting risk

If however you travel to site A Monday then half through the day during business hours have to travel to site B for business then that's business use.
Because youre travelling from site A to site B due to business pressures it's a businees risk

Does that work

That's not what I've been told - I do exactly that (1 site per day) and need class one.

[saaby93]

Bill said:

That's not what I've been told - I do exactly that (1 site per day) and need class one.

Probably a good idea to have it anyway as it could be construed youre going to site B for business even if it is first thing in the morning
My speeling is getting attrocus

[JonRB]

RizzoTheRat said:

Class 1 - Social, domestic and pleasure including commuting to and from any place of business"

This.

A lot of insurers don't even charge extra for Class 1 Business Use over the more normal SDP+commuting.

[eldar]

Vacumatic said:

For example I work for a large contractor who has some work in oil and gas and nuclear sites. Some private car insurers might cover business use but would exclude the use of cars on any nuclear site, including employees or visitor car parks, Sellafield for example has tourist visitors, some insurers will not insure your car whilst at Sellafield.

Really important to check the policy, if you are not really interested enough to do so then just check the Schedule and the Exclusions, and do this before you buy.

I know a lot of people that work at Sellafield, and have never heard or seen any exclusion regarding it. Which ones exclude it?

[RizzoTheRat]

Vacumatic said:

Some private car insurers might cover business use but would exclude the use of cars on any nuclear site, including employees or visitor car parks,

I used to have a policy that excluded damage caused by aircraft. I discovered this the year the car was spending most weekends parked within about 10 meters of Farnborough's main runway

[16v stretch]

talksthetorque said:

Congrats on the new job Op.

• snip*

I'm sure it was a joke about the pizza delivery, but even your new insurance will not cover you for this. You'll find that you need cover for 'travelling for hire or reward' or some such phrasing for that.

My business use excludes me from using my car for business use outside of my listed profession although there was an option for me to take out business cover for any business I am involved in. Hire and Reward (from my understanding) generally applies to taxi/minibus/limo hire/wedding car etc, as there's an increased risk of liability claims, most insurers would just recommend adequate business cover for pizza delivery/multi-drop courier etc.

Oddly enough, my insurance co allows for my other half to use my car for business use, even though she works in the motor trade. However; the car she insures, won't allow her to have business use, but will provide it for me - and that's on a modified classic policy.

[xRIEx]

saaby93 said:

Bill said:

Not so IME, commuting only covers one site, if you use more than one you need class one business use even if your employer doesn't pay mileage. (You can claim additional mileage against tax though).

http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/wha...

I think theres a distcinction there
If you travel to site A on Monday and site B on Tuesday that AFAIK is commuting
Beacuse youre doing it during commuting hours to get to your place of work it's a commuting risk

If however you travel to site A Monday then half through the day during business hours have to travel to site B for business then that's business use.
Because youre travelling from site A to site B due to business pressures it's a businees risk

Does that work

What Bill said is correct. If you are contracted to "commute" to different locations on e.g. different days of the week, whatever time the journey takes place, Business Use cover is required. Most insurers will define commuting as to a "single permanent location".

[blank]

eldar said:

Vacumatic said:

For example I work for a large contractor who has some work in oil and gas and nuclear sites. Some private car insurers might cover business use but would exclude the use of cars on any nuclear site, including employees or visitor car parks, Sellafield for example has tourist visitors, some insurers will not insure your car whilst at Sellafield.

Really important to check the policy, if you are not really interested enough to do so then just check the Schedule and the Exclusions, and do this before you buy.

I know a lot of people that work at Sellafield, and have never heard or seen any exclusion regarding it. Which ones exclude it?

My dad worked there for years and I don't recall him having to be careful about choosing an insurer.

And 'tourist visitors' would be to the visitors centre (now closed down?) which isn't on the actual site anyway.

[Vacumatic]

eldar said:

I know a lot of people that work at Sellafield, and have never heard or seen any exclusion regarding it. Which ones exclude it?

I didnt do a full check on every policy, I was asked for an opinion on an Aviva car policy and that excluded all coverage whilst on a nuclear site, sellafield is just one of those and my interpretation was that even the car park was part of the site.

Your friends should check the exclusions as a matter of urgency, if their insurers knew they worked for Sellafield Limited or one of the contractors such as AMEC then they should get their premiums back.