RE: BMW M5 30 Jahre: Driven
Discussion
Quickmoose said:
..just to claify again, for me...I haven't asked for 'stripped out'...I question the amount of gadegtry a comfy, heavy and potentailly unnecessary stuff... buecause a do it all car as this car is so unquestionably king of....has Motorsport branding?
This is because you haven't got the first idea what the M5 is about and always has been about, its always been the heaviest model in the 5 series line up and the most luxurious with heated, electric leather everything. In fact EVERY M car barring the sales disaster that was e46 CSL has been the heaviest most loaded with kit product within its range.
They have never made this mythical lightweight M5 that you speak about, ever, this is because the people that actually buy them want them this way.
It's a powerful luxurious daily driver capable of carrying 4 people and their luggage across large distances at speed and in comfort, always has been and always will be, what part of that can't you get your head around?
Wills2 said:
...It's a powerful, luxurious daily driver capable of carrying 4 people and their luggage across large distances at speed and in comfort, always has been and always will be...
Indeed. Seems people are forgetting to assess this car based upon "fit for purpose" - which is the way all cars should be appraised.I think the confusion is down to journalists ascribing the "sports saloon" moniker to such cars. Let's be clear; it's a practical saloon car first and a sports car a very distant second.
Wills2 said:
This is because you haven't got the first idea what the M5 is about.
leave your handbag at the door please. I don't pretend to know or undermine your auto based knowledge or experience it would be polite not to pretend the same of me, ta muchly. I'm expressing an opinion.Wills2 said:
its always been the heaviest model in the 5 series line up and the most luxurious with heated, electric leather everything.
In fact EVERY M car barring the sales disaster that was e46 CSL has been the heaviest most loaded with kit product within its range.
They have never made this mythical lightweight M5 that you speak about, ever, this is because the people that actually buy them want them this way.
It's a powerful luxurious daily driver capable of carrying 4 people and their luggage across large distances at speed and in comfort, always has been and always will be, what part of that can't you get your head around?
So In fact EVERY M car barring the sales disaster that was e46 CSL has been the heaviest most loaded with kit product within its range.
They have never made this mythical lightweight M5 that you speak about, ever, this is because the people that actually buy them want them this way.
It's a powerful luxurious daily driver capable of carrying 4 people and their luggage across large distances at speed and in comfort, always has been and always will be, what part of that can't you get your head around?
a) I've never said they have made a mythical lighweight 5
b) I'm pretty sure the new M5 comes with more gadgetry and luxury guff than the first.
c) The part of it I 'can't get my head around' ...again is the Motorsport badging - Ive never seen luxury cars race before.
d) I've already said that I understand the M brand is for people that want it all, a nod to giant slaying perfromance with a big slice of wafting with stuff done for them, and to hell with the nannying electronics and related weight and complex stuff needed t keep it all in check. which it does VERY well....and
d) The thread is about the 30 Jahre, get your head round that
BIGBerries said:
after just being driven round the nurburgring in one i can confirm that kerb weight and piped V8 cabin music makes no difference to its incredible speed, acceleration, and unreal handling. My god it was good! albeit just the "standard" car. wow!
I hate myself for asking...
but...how do you know? What you experienced was awesome, no doubt.
But what would you have experienced had it been 150kg lighter, and that maybe that lightness allowed you to hear the real noise... just saying...
I know I know it's not what the M5 is about....
I've got a c63, and I recently test drove a new m5. Admittedly it had the competition pack, but honestly, it sounded fantastic, handled really well, went like stink and was supremely comfortable.
The boot was huge, plenty of room for my kids and trips away, I loved the understated looks, I loved the gadgets, I loved the car, so I ordered one,
And I know it's not the m5, but I did have a v10 m6, didn't keep it long, crap gearbox, terrible fuel consumption, small fuel tank, IMHO, not a patch on the f10 m5.
The boot was huge, plenty of room for my kids and trips away, I loved the understated looks, I loved the gadgets, I loved the car, so I ordered one,
And I know it's not the m5, but I did have a v10 m6, didn't keep it long, crap gearbox, terrible fuel consumption, small fuel tank, IMHO, not a patch on the f10 m5.
Quickmoose said:
Racing roots of 5, I'm sure google can assist there isn't much I know, but aside from that....Racing roots of the M 'brand' are deep and again easy to source.
What I'd remove?
Well I'd add carbon, thin the glass, massively thin the seats and remove much/all of the electric adjustment. Manual rear windows, no sunroof, reduce sound deadening - and thereby withdraw engine noise module....reduce thickness of carpet and leather, I'd like to have the materials list used...I'd go further... I bet there's and easy 125-175kg to be had there...
Even the e28 had electrically adjustable headrests...What I'd remove?
Well I'd add carbon, thin the glass, massively thin the seats and remove much/all of the electric adjustment. Manual rear windows, no sunroof, reduce sound deadening - and thereby withdraw engine noise module....reduce thickness of carpet and leather, I'd like to have the materials list used...I'd go further... I bet there's and easy 125-175kg to be had there...
Everything you list as wanting to remove/replace is the stuff that appeals about every M5 in the first place.
Patrick Bateman said:
Quickmoose said:
Racing roots of 5, I'm sure google can assist there isn't much I know, but aside from that....Racing roots of the M 'brand' are deep and again easy to source.
What I'd remove?
Well I'd add carbon, thin the glass, massively thin the seats and remove much/all of the electric adjustment. Manual rear windows, no sunroof, reduce sound deadening - and thereby withdraw engine noise module....reduce thickness of carpet and leather, I'd like to have the materials list used...I'd go further... I bet there's and easy 125-175kg to be had there...
Even the e28 had electrically adjustable headrests...What I'd remove?
Well I'd add carbon, thin the glass, massively thin the seats and remove much/all of the electric adjustment. Manual rear windows, no sunroof, reduce sound deadening - and thereby withdraw engine noise module....reduce thickness of carpet and leather, I'd like to have the materials list used...I'd go further... I bet there's and easy 125-175kg to be had there...
Everything you list as wanting to remove/replace is the stuff that appeals about every M5 in the first place.
indeed. It would sell for s
t! All those are items that, as you say, would get added back immediately. Quickmoose said:
I hate myself for asking... but...
how do you know? What you experienced was awesome, no doubt.
But what would you have experienced had it been 150kg lighter, and that maybe that lightness allowed you to hear the real noise... just saying...
I know I know it's not what the M5 is about....
I think it's worth just stressing that myself - and other owners who are saying the same - literally cannot tell what is coming out of the speakers. I gather BMW synthesise the sound of the engine accurately (yes I know...) and its used to augment the real engine noise not replace it. All I know is that when I open windows/sunroof the same noise just gets louder and that can't be from the speakers. I just drove mine 120 miles mostly across A roads in Glos / Herefordshire / South Shrops with sunroof open and thought it sounded bloody great. Not as dramatic and characterful as the V10 but it still does have a decent sound of its own. The Akra / M Perf system on the reviewed car will sound considerably better. but...how do you know? What you experienced was awesome, no doubt.
But what would you have experienced had it been 150kg lighter, and that maybe that lightness allowed you to hear the real noise... just saying...
I know I know it's not what the M5 is about....
The active sound is a s
tty concept but I honestly wouldn't know it's there.I'm not even sure mine is working as I honestly can't tell if or when it is. The F10 M5 takes a little while to grow on you such is the depth of it's ability, once you get past the raw speed (of which there is plenty and you never truly get used to it). The 30 Yr special is pointless to me but you can't blame BMW for making it if there are people who will pay 113k for one. All this guff about weight and sportiness is a nonsense. All super saloons have grown lardier and all cars in general are getting a bit too chubby. That the M5 can do what it does and how it does it, is to me at least deeply impressive.
As above you cannot tell that any of the sound is coming from the speakers. The car is pretty damn loud from outside when it is being nailed, the shame is how little of that exhaust noise makes it back to the cabin, even with windows down.
As a car, it is probably the very best car in the world at being all things to all people. My wife loves it because it's spacious, has a good stereo, fantastic satnav and can dispatch any wide boy that dares try it on at a traffic light while requiring no effort apart from flexing a right foot.
I love it because you can stick the TC into MDM mode, the gearbox into M3, the suspension into sport and absolutely destroy a country road.
The only criticism is that driving it could be more of an 'event' when not going 8/10ths+. But arguably no M5 or ///M is capable of delivering that, M3 CSL & M3 GTS excepted.
Anyway in search of an 'event' car I will probably import the below once the M5 has gone:
As a car, it is probably the very best car in the world at being all things to all people. My wife loves it because it's spacious, has a good stereo, fantastic satnav and can dispatch any wide boy that dares try it on at a traffic light while requiring no effort apart from flexing a right foot.
I love it because you can stick the TC into MDM mode, the gearbox into M3, the suspension into sport and absolutely destroy a country road.
The only criticism is that driving it could be more of an 'event' when not going 8/10ths+. But arguably no M5 or ///M is capable of delivering that, M3 CSL & M3 GTS excepted.
Anyway in search of an 'event' car I will probably import the below once the M5 has gone:
stain said:
^^^Always amazed how small the brakes are on those given the weight and performance.
They're not too bad actually, 370mm Brembo's, and most reviews specifically praise the brakes, anyway if braking is a concern you can get a Camaro Z28 with standard ceramics, which is what i originally was looking at before deciding it might be a little bit too hardcore for the wife and kids 
One wonders what the subjective difference would be between piloting an F10 550i M sport and the F10 M5. Certainly the M5 would be a lot faster but for me the shame isn't the weight but the loss of a bespoke engine. (And no i haven't ever driven an M5).
I do wonder why the same level of spec in my father's W222 S-Class needs to be in a performance-oriented mid-size saloon but anyway. The E63 doesn't seem to be nearly as packed with stuff
I do wonder why the same level of spec in my father's W222 S-Class needs to be in a performance-oriented mid-size saloon but anyway. The E63 doesn't seem to be nearly as packed with stuff
BlackPrince said:
One wonders what the subjective difference would be between piloting an F10 550i M sport and the F10 M5. Certainly the M5 would be a lot faster but for me the shame isn't the weight but the loss of a bespoke engine. (And no i haven't ever driven an M5).
I do wonder why the same level of spec in my father's W222 S-Class needs to be in a performance-oriented mid-size saloon but anyway. The E63 doesn't seem to be nearly as packed with stuff
The difference between a 550i and an M5 is very big. I do wonder why the same level of spec in my father's W222 S-Class needs to be in a performance-oriented mid-size saloon but anyway. The E63 doesn't seem to be nearly as packed with stuff
Different suspension, gearbox, brakes, engine (it is vastly different from the 550i engine!!!) among other bits like nicer seats etc.
E65Ross said:
The difference between a 550i and an M5 is very big.
Different suspension, gearbox, brakes, engine (it is vastly different from the 550i engine!!!) among other bits like nicer seats etc.
Not sure the engine is vastly different. It's the same block, but the head is different with the clever manifold. I do agree that the M5 is a vastly different car from the 550i though.Different suspension, gearbox, brakes, engine (it is vastly different from the 550i engine!!!) among other bits like nicer seats etc.
E65Ross said:
Maybe they want a 5 seater which has a decent size boot.
Tell me then, for your 50k,whicb ferrari has as luxurious an interior as this M5, with as many creature comforts, a boot as big and, here's the big one..... Gas the same performance as this.
Also.... Whilst M5 servicing isn't cheap, it's a lot cheaper than a Ferrari
You're being daft suggesting that as a viable alternative.
To those moaning about it, and the weight etc... Don't understand the point of the M5.
Someone above said the E34 was just as luxurious as the F10 M5. Erm, no it isn't E34s are miles off in terms of refinement for starters!
You are being daft thinking an M Car should be a 2 tonne barge. It's meant to be a mentalist high performance saloon. Get a used Phaeton 6.0 W12 for £30K and forget £90K on the M5. Just like the post just below yours said, unnecessary weight and toys should not be the point of an M Car.Tell me then, for your 50k,whicb ferrari has as luxurious an interior as this M5, with as many creature comforts, a boot as big and, here's the big one..... Gas the same performance as this.
Also.... Whilst M5 servicing isn't cheap, it's a lot cheaper than a Ferrari
You're being daft suggesting that as a viable alternative.
To those moaning about it, and the weight etc... Don't understand the point of the M5.
Someone above said the E34 was just as luxurious as the F10 M5. Erm, no it isn't E34s are miles off in terms of refinement for starters!
CorvetteConvert said:
E65Ross said:
Maybe they want a 5 seater which has a decent size boot.
Tell me then, for your 50k,whicb ferrari has as luxurious an interior as this M5, with as many creature comforts, a boot as big and, here's the big one..... Gas the same performance as this.
Also.... Whilst M5 servicing isn't cheap, it's a lot cheaper than a Ferrari
You're being daft suggesting that as a viable alternative.
To those moaning about it, and the weight etc... Don't understand the point of the M5.
Someone above said the E34 was just as luxurious as the F10 M5. Erm, no it isn't E34s are miles off in terms of refinement for starters!
You are being daft thinking an M Car should be a 2 tonne barge. It's meant to be a mentalist high performance saloon. Get a used Phaeton 6.0 W12 for £30K and forget £90K on the M5. Just like the post just below yours said, unnecessary weight and toys should not be the point of an M Car.Tell me then, for your 50k,whicb ferrari has as luxurious an interior as this M5, with as many creature comforts, a boot as big and, here's the big one..... Gas the same performance as this.
Also.... Whilst M5 servicing isn't cheap, it's a lot cheaper than a Ferrari
You're being daft suggesting that as a viable alternative.
To those moaning about it, and the weight etc... Don't understand the point of the M5.
Someone above said the E34 was just as luxurious as the F10 M5. Erm, no it isn't E34s are miles off in terms of refinement for starters!
Isn't the point of a car such as the M5 that you can travel in luxury and comfort, but make very quick progress when the mood takes you?
People bust their nut over the E39 etc, but they weren't super featherweights either...
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