RE: Audi RS4 B8 beats B7: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Andy20vt said:
rtz62 said:
Unknowingly, Audi weren't far off the mark with the 2671cc 261bhp 295 lbft of torque B5 RS4
True, except you're thinking of the B5 S4 there, the B5 RS4 has the same 2.7 6cyl engine with uprated KO4 turbos and a thorough factory tune up by Cosworth to see a healthy 380bhp as standard.B5 RS4 is the one to have, it was not mass produced like the other RS models, and like the earlier RS2, has a real sense of Skunkworks about it, something later RS cars just can't muster - there's just too many of them.
The B5 RS4's are still new enough to use as a daily drive, and are actually appreciating in value now, something that can help offset the fuel bills. Plus the understeery handling issues that was the big critisizm of the standard car can easily be remedied with a £250 uprated rear ARB. I see an average 24mpg from mine and that's not driving like a granny either. With a simple map to 425bhp sure it's quicker than the B7 and B8 too - it's 200kg lighter for a start, with quite a bit more torque.
'Journo' in 'newer car offers more kit and refinement for not much more money' shocker - the fact that the prices are this close now would tell you something about the relative depreciation curves and how they are likely to go on.
Ah well, I'm sure there are people out there who decided against a 964 RS or 993 RS in favour of a nice, nearly new 996 C4 Tip back in the day...
Ah well, I'm sure there are people out there who decided against a 964 RS or 993 RS in favour of a nice, nearly new 996 C4 Tip back in the day...
Funnily enough after reading the article I want a B7 even more than a B8 
Manual box, better steering feel and smaller. I've been looking at B7 RS4 Avant's all week, its definitely on the shortlist for the next car. There are three black ones currently for sale with between 75-80k miles all priced between 18-19k at the moment 
Manual box, better steering feel and smaller. I've been looking at B7 RS4 Avant's all week, its definitely on the shortlist for the next car. There are three black ones currently for sale with between 75-80k miles all priced between 18-19k at the moment GranCab said:
P.S.
Such a great looking car. I have been working out the fuel costs for myself after I was given one as a courtesy car for a week. I do between 20,000 and 25,000 a year and unfortunately however I try to stack up the man maths it doesn't work! : (Epic car and the launch control is great fun. Looks like I'll have to stick with the S3's paltry 300bhp....for now.
A
B5 RS4 is the one to have, it was not mass produced like the other RS models, and like the earlier RS2, has a real sense of Skunkworks about it, something later RS cars just can't muster - there's just too many of them.
The B5 RS4's are still new enough to use as a daily drive, and are actually appreciating in value now, something that can help offset the fuel bills. Plus the understeery handling issues that was the big critisizm of the standard car can easily be remedied with a £250 uprated rear ARB. I see an average 24mpg from mine and that's not driving like a granny either. With a simple map to 425bhp sure it's quicker than the B7 and B8 too - it's 200kg lighter for a start, with quite a bit more torque.Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!
Of course, and as soon as I posted it I tralised.
But you get my gist...!
Andy20vt said:
rtz62 said:
Unknowingly, Audi weren't far off the mark with the 2671cc 261bhp 295 lbft of torque B5 RS4
True, except you're thinking of the B5 S4 there, the B5 RS4 has the same 2.7 6cyl engine with uprated KO4 turbos and a thorough factory tune up by Cosworth to see a healthy 380bhp as standard.B5 RS4 is the one to have, it was not mass produced like the other RS models, and like the earlier RS2, has a real sense of Skunkworks about it, something later RS cars just can't muster - there's just too many of them.
The B5 RS4's are still new enough to use as a daily drive, and are actually appreciating in value now, something that can help offset the fuel bills. Plus the understeery handling issues that was the big critisizm of the standard car can easily be remedied with a £250 uprated rear ARB. I see an average 24mpg from mine and that's not driving like a granny either. With a simple map to 425bhp sure it's quicker than the B7 and B8 too - it's 200kg lighter for a start, with quite a bit more torque.
Of course, and as soon as I posted it I tralised.
But you get my gist...!
I am a recent convert to a B7 RS4 after many years in M3s.
It took me a couple of weeks to get my head around it as I was trying to drive it like the M3 and was getting frustrated with the seemingly terminal understeer. Now I get how to drive the thing it is a revelation, I covers ground at an astonishing rate compared to the M3. It is a lot less playful than the BM but A to B the RS4 has the M3 licked!
I did drive a B8 before I bought the B7. Loved the B8 interior especially the quilted seats. I couldn't justify spending 40% more on car that only seems 5% better. Also I have a big estate at home and didn't want 2 estates (far too sensible), so the manual B7 saloon joined the household.
Only on pure aesthetics I prefer the wheel arches on the B7 too, the rear quarter view is a constant joy to me!
If you have £20k knocking about go and buy one, they are (to quote my 11 year old) awesome!
It took me a couple of weeks to get my head around it as I was trying to drive it like the M3 and was getting frustrated with the seemingly terminal understeer. Now I get how to drive the thing it is a revelation, I covers ground at an astonishing rate compared to the M3. It is a lot less playful than the BM but A to B the RS4 has the M3 licked!
I did drive a B8 before I bought the B7. Loved the B8 interior especially the quilted seats. I couldn't justify spending 40% more on car that only seems 5% better. Also I have a big estate at home and didn't want 2 estates (far too sensible), so the manual B7 saloon joined the household.
Only on pure aesthetics I prefer the wheel arches on the B7 too, the rear quarter view is a constant joy to me!
If you have £20k knocking about go and buy one, they are (to quote my 11 year old) awesome!
Brilliant write up, I've had a passenger ride in both vehicles the b7 was manual and obviously the b8 was dsg, my view is the new one is more refined but the b7 being a manual you feel more involved with the drive, the b8 didnt have the impact that the b7 did upon release, neither will better the b5 as far as I'm concerned.
Elliott
Elliott
. . Having just sold my RS4 B7 I can agree with you after recently test driving a RS4 B8, I loved the dual clutch as simplicity itself driving around town as I have gone through 3 clutches in 4.5 years, two on warranty . . but on mileage, I returned average of 24mpg on my RS4 B7 and once returned 34mpg on a steady low speed cross country cruise . . however, I am awaiting a new RS3 now as that 5 cylinder noise lit up my blood after a test drive . . and driving on roads that I know, it was faster, more comfortable and just as stable . .
Having owned a B7 (and yes, had it abused by toe-rags) and enjoyed the hilarity of quite how much money is literally wrapped up in it's wheels and religiously adhering to my petrolhead duty of keeping the mpg below 20mpg, I would have absolutely no hesitation in snapping the hand off anyone who offers you one.
The B7 answered my 'if you could only have one car' question admirably until man maths got the better of me and I went to 8 wheels and assorted mid-life catastrophe machinery. I test drove a B8 briefly and was underwhelmed. Maybe living with it would have helped but I suspect that acclimatisation and fading memory would do more to mask the reduction in intensity of analogue experience than reveal any objective 'betterness'. The subsequent generations just didn't do it for me. The design lost it's tautness and aggression, becoming too big and amorphous to my eye; blink and it's an A6. Small, fast estates like RS's should be special. Bulges and manual gearboxes matter. Giggling chuckability because it's a small enough to do so matters. RS4s ceased to be special after the B7 for me, acquiring too many obscuring layers of progress and sophistication. They don't make 'em like this anymore which is why the prices are doing what they are.
The B7 answered my 'if you could only have one car' question admirably until man maths got the better of me and I went to 8 wheels and assorted mid-life catastrophe machinery. I test drove a B8 briefly and was underwhelmed. Maybe living with it would have helped but I suspect that acclimatisation and fading memory would do more to mask the reduction in intensity of analogue experience than reveal any objective 'betterness'. The subsequent generations just didn't do it for me. The design lost it's tautness and aggression, becoming too big and amorphous to my eye; blink and it's an A6. Small, fast estates like RS's should be special. Bulges and manual gearboxes matter. Giggling chuckability because it's a small enough to do so matters. RS4s ceased to be special after the B7 for me, acquiring too many obscuring layers of progress and sophistication. They don't make 'em like this anymore which is why the prices are doing what they are.
Andy20vt said:
Uprated rear ARB makes a massive difference. Handling completely neutral now and it's gone from being a bit of a barge in the corners to an enjoyable car to hustle through a series of bends using the throttle to tighten the line if necessary. B5's (like any highly strung car) do require some TLC but get it running sweet and there's not many other cars in the world I'd rather be driving. Heard stories of plenty of people who've moved from the B5 to the newer B7, only to regret it. Must admit, the turbo shove is quite addictive. Good thing about the B5 is it feels relatively compact compared to the newer cars, plus the visibility is better, so this makes it a slightly better proposition for an A or B road blast.
I'll have to fit mine in the near future when I have a chance. I find the B5 very uninspiring on a b-road at the moment. Engine in the B5 is a masterpiece though, lots of low down torque, but unlike a lot of VAG turbo cars, pulls to the redline. Mixed feelings...Bigger car goes a little faster in a straight line. Great. And I love the stopwatch discussion.
But what does the extra weight do to cornering and braking? I wonder if, in several years time of having to slow down a heavier car, whether it causes stress on the components requiring rebuilding of supporting hardware? Its all well and good to be stopping a heavy car at that point in time, but if you face a repair bill down the track for suspension, brakes, etc, then is that really the best option?
I dont know. I've always loved having sportscars that are light and moderately powerful, as opposed to heavy and very powerful, as it seems like a recipe for breaking successive bits and pieces. Diffs, etc get wearisome to replace after doing it a few times.
Ideal recipe would be 1200-1300 kg, and maybe 400 bhp. I wouldnt expect to get much in the way of creature comforts at that weight, and thats fine, because I wouldnt be expecting it.
In saying all that, this KIND of car is a compromise. Words like practical, family, and only-car, just send me running in the opposite direction, I'm afraid.
But what does the extra weight do to cornering and braking? I wonder if, in several years time of having to slow down a heavier car, whether it causes stress on the components requiring rebuilding of supporting hardware? Its all well and good to be stopping a heavy car at that point in time, but if you face a repair bill down the track for suspension, brakes, etc, then is that really the best option?
I dont know. I've always loved having sportscars that are light and moderately powerful, as opposed to heavy and very powerful, as it seems like a recipe for breaking successive bits and pieces. Diffs, etc get wearisome to replace after doing it a few times.
Ideal recipe would be 1200-1300 kg, and maybe 400 bhp. I wouldnt expect to get much in the way of creature comforts at that weight, and thats fine, because I wouldnt be expecting it.
In saying all that, this KIND of car is a compromise. Words like practical, family, and only-car, just send me running in the opposite direction, I'm afraid.
I don't really like Audi's but, I love my B7 RS4. I bought one about 18 months as a daily driver and then bought a Vantage for a fun car about a year ago, I can honestly say I get so much more fun out of the RS4 than I do the Aston. As someone previously mentioned, for only having a 1 car gvarage, you would be hard pushed to pick anything over it.
Most definitely would be the B7 for me, even just on looks alone. The new car sounds enormous and the driver sounds far more disconnected judging by the write up. While both are arguably just point and shoot weapons the appeal of the B7 is evidently stronger with with better resale values. The other thing is if the extra length is in the wheelbase and the engine is mounted further back surely that makes servicing the B8 a bit harder with things like gearbox change/issues etc etc (except perhaps chain change) and costlier and with more things to go wrong as ever on more modern cars negating the extra fuel of the B7.
The downside though is some of the B7 switchgear looks like it's been lifted straight from a mk4 golf (which is neither a surprise nor a good thing) yet conversely the B8's interior is just too space age and bold.
The downside though is some of the B7 switchgear looks like it's been lifted straight from a mk4 golf (which is neither a surprise nor a good thing) yet conversely the B8's interior is just too space age and bold.
Edited by Madkat on Thursday 6th August 16:57
EdHall697 said:
I keep looking at S5's in the classifieds and thinking should I buy one. You only have to put S5 4.2 V8 into youtube and I guarantee you will be in the classifieds immediately after!
Sod all these hybrid and electric cars.
We have to keep V8's on the road...
Doing my V8 part with my M5. I drove a friends B7 Avant, found it absolutely delightful. Compact, beautifully built, sonorous and really fast... Great package that felt absolutely right behind the wheel.Sod all these hybrid and electric cars.
We have to keep V8's on the road...
Madkat said:
makes servicing the B8 a bit harder with things like clutch change etc etc (except perhaps cambelt change)
B8 has neither - auto only and chain driven cams. Box replacement ain't cheap though....even on S models you're looking at £6k+ if it's anything beyond the mechatronics unit.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff