What is the least "PH" car?

[Malachimon]

RobM77 said:

It's not for me (I'll have a standard VTS please - great cars!), but people who mod cars have a true passion for their cars, so in my book that's very PH and certainly not the "least PH".

There is nothing wrong with it as a car, much like some of the other suggestions here. The problem is tasteless and pathetic modifications on a car that very few people will admire as it pounds out generic "NOW" music through its speakers with windows needlessly tinted.

Unless you're Obama, you don't need limo windows in a £1000 hatchback

Edited by Malachimon on Wednesday 19th August 20:24

[DanielSan]

The Hyundai accent 3 cylinder diesel.

[white_goodman]

RobM77 said:

perhaps not

Sure, they're not to my tastes at all, but a) it's a performance version of a more humble car b) they attract a loyal following and c) they have a competition heritage (or at least the saloon and hatch do). Surely that makes it a very PH car doesn't it?

I think that may have been a pop at the OP's garage Rob! Keep with the programme, I drive a non-Type-R Civic now! Not the most PH car admittedly but it does have quite a sweet NA engine and gearbox for a mid-spec small family car.

[white_goodman]

300bhp/ton said:

FIREBIRDC9 said:

I have one as my daily car.

Its not particularly amazing to drive , I just liked the way it looked.

Its refreshing in a world of dreary grey BMWs that all look the same.

Especially when my PT is in Electric Blue!

It's a shame we never got the exciting engine options in the UK though.



215 hp (160 kW) @ 5000 rpm and 245 lb·ft (332 N·m) @ 3600 rpm (2003–2005)

230 hp (170 kW) @ 5100 rpm and 245 lb·ft (332 N·m) @ 2400 rpm (2006+)

wiki said:

The PT Cruiser GT (also known as the GT Cruiser) is a high output turbocharged variant of the PT Cruiser introduced as a 2003 model. Much like the Dodge Neon SRT-4, the PT Cruiser GT uses the same 2.4L turbocharged I4 engine. The engine is upgraded over the standard PT with improved cooling, oiling, an aluminum cylinder block with steel sleeves, and forged internals. The PT Cruiser GT is much more powerful than the standard model and has the potential to make significantly more power with available and relatively simple performance upgrades. Upgrades such as MOPAR Stage 1 and supporting turbo components are common. Most performance parts from the Dodge NEON SRT-4 are compatible with the PT Cruiser GT.

Come on 300. I know that you have a bit of a liking for American cars (don't hate all of them myself either) but even the North Americans hate the Neon and PT Cruiser these days! I visited my in-laws in Canada a couple of years ago and the garage down the road from them had an electric blue PT Cruiser turbo for sale on the lot. I just returned from visiting them and it was still there! As for matching a Focus ST chassis wise, I would struggle to believe that based on the non-Turbo that I drove. Likewise, the Neon, there are only still a few around because they are very cheap, as are the NA-spec Ford Escort and Chevy Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire. They're all crap! Both fairly unusual on these shores though and the PT Cruiser looks both different and is practical, so I wouldn't go as far to say it is the least PH car.

Are you going to tell us that the Chevy Cobalt SS was the best FWD car ever made too? Something that a Canadian told me with great authority once having never driven any European or Japanese FWD performance cars!

Having nominated it and then others jumping on the Picasso hate wagon, I now feel compelled to defend it. The contemporary Renault Scenic was in all fairness no better and it had a certain Gallic charm (something lacking in most new French cars). I had some very enjoyable sleeps in the back of my dad's Picasso and maintain that it's a fine car as long as you stay well away from the driver's seat!

Things like the Kia Carens/Sedona have absolutely no charm whatsoever though and are totally average in every way. I could probably think of some other older Kias/Hyundais too if I had the inclination but some of them may be comically bad, which has a certain endearing quality!

The most boringly average car that I owned was my mk4.5 VW Polo 1.4 TDI. I had several of these as company cars and then stupidly bought one myself, as I had a limited budget, a long commute and needed something reliable and economical. Apart from being reliable and very economical it was completely beige in every way. Looks, performance, driving, comfort etc. It's the only car that I have owned that I never looked forward to driving!



Perhaps we're going about this the wrong way though. Dropping a ton of money on something pointless might be even less PH! I'm thinking of pointless cars like the 100k Audi Q7 V12 TDI. If you have to spend 100k on an Audi, get an R8. The c. 50k Q7 V6 TDI will do the job just as well/better than this one and spending twice as much on one doesn't really make it any "better".



Likewise the similarly expensive GL/GLS AMG. Is it really worth 34k more than the 350 CDI/Bluetec? Wouldn't 100k on a Mercedes be better spent on an S-Class or AMG GT?



If you have to spend 100k on an SUV, surely it has to be a G-Wagen or a FFRR?

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 19th August 22:24

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 19th August 22:25

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 19th August 22:26

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 19th August 22:27

Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 19th August 22:32

[RobM77]

white_goodman said:

RobM77 said:

perhaps not

Sure, they're not to my tastes at all, but a) it's a performance version of a more humble car b) they attract a loyal following and c) they have a competition heritage (or at least the saloon and hatch do). Surely that makes it a very PH car doesn't it?

I think that may have been a pop at the OP's garage Rob! Keep with the programme, I drive a non-Type-R Civic now! Not the most PH car admittedly but it does have quite a sweet NA engine and gearbox for a mid-spec small family car.

Ah, I thought it was just another odd choice - we've had a lot on this thread!

I quite like the standard Civic actually - if you don't want good handling or performance then I don't think I've driven a better everyday car.

[iloveboost]

We could be here all day, because most cars are dull. However I think the third generation Polo 1.9 SD (the non-turbo) is in the running for the worst suspension setup car to drive briskly.
For new cars I think it has to be the last generation Toyota Auris Hybrid. An ok car for pottering about in, but nothing for a driver to enjoy. Least comfortable barge probably goes to the A6 S line models from 2004-2011. Ji...t...t.err.....y.

Edited by iloveboost on Thursday 20th August 11:11

[Countdown]

If this hasn't been mentioned I'd be very surprised....

[Hugo a Gogo]

T1berious said:

I put forward this absolute gem....



1300 Kg's \ 70 Bhp of WTF?

Hell No, I'll just walk.

Actually I think that's the winner, such an obviously compromised vehicle simply for whatever advantage a sliding door brings

[BenWRXSEi]

Countdown said:

If this hasn't been mentioned I'd be very surprised....

Actually, if you look very, very carefully, it has been mentioned several times already. Trouble is, it's so mind-numbingly dull that either no-one has noticed, or no-one can think of a single thing to say about them.

I'll give it a go:

My Mum had two of these.

One was green.

One was silver.

[Countdown]

Mmm.... green you say?

Kielder Green or severn green?

[BenWRXSEi]

Honestly, I neither know nor care.

[white_goodman]

RobM77 said:

Ah, I thought it was just another odd choice - we've had a lot on this thread!

I quite like the standard Civic actually - if you don't want good handling or performance then I don't think I've driven a better everyday car.

Thanks. Unfortunately I do!

Out of interest, are there any modern cars (i.e. within the last 5 years) that you rate for steering Rob?

[va1o]

Has to be the Zafira. Followed closely by the old Xsara Picasso and Peugeot 206. Corsa isn't far off but slightly redeemed by the VXR.

[RobinBanks]

white_goodman said:

The most boringly average car that I owned was my mk4.5 VW Polo 1.4 TDI. I had several of these as company cars and then stupidly bought one myself, as I had a limited budget, a long commute and needed something reliable and economical. Apart from being reliable and very economical it was completely beige in every way. Looks, performance, driving, comfort etc. It's the only car that I have owned that I never looked forward to driving!



Perhaps we're going about this the wrong way though. Dropping a ton of money on something pointless might be even less PH! I'm thinking of pointless cars like the 100k Audi Q7 V12 TDI. If you have to spend 100k on an Audi, get an R8. The c. 50k Q7 V6 TDI will do the job just as well/better than this one and spending twice as much on one doesn't really make it any "better".



Likewise the similarly expensive GL/GLS AMG. Is it really worth 34k more than the 350 CDI/Bluetec? Wouldn't 100k on a Mercedes be better spent on an S-Class or AMG GT?



If you have to spend 100k on an SUV, surely it has to be a G-Wagen or a FFRR?

Those Polos were st. Much worse than the equivalent Corsa or Fiesta.

I'm a serial Range Rover/Discovery guy and have indirectly had a Q7 and I thought it was crap. However the V12 one is clearly brilliant.

[white_goodman]

RobinBanks said:

Those Polos were st. Much worse than the equivalent Corsa or Fiesta.

Really?





I'll happily admit that the latest Fiesta is better in every way but the old one? Also, when has the Vauxhall Corsa ever been a good car?

The 1.4 petrol Polo was pretty useless but the 1.2 was a reasonable base engine and VW TDIs are way superior to (and more reliable than) Ford or Vauxhall diesels.

I partly agree with you. The appeal of running a small car to me is low running costs but also fun. More compact, lighter, more chuckable etc. A 5k new mk1 Ford Ka could be fun, so why not a 12k Polo? It wasn't a terrible car but others in its class, Clio, MINI, Suzuki Swift, Mazda 2 and even the Skoda Fabia bizarrely were a lot more fun!

[BarbaricAvatar]

I've had fun in some real stheaps over the years. However, i can't imagine any way where these would be fun even on the best road in the world:







A Zafira looks like a blast in comparison.

[robsco]

IntriguedUser said:

robsco said:

I will usually stand up for Peugeots, mainly because I used to work for them and feel a bit of an affinity with them, but the 307 was an appalling car in every respect. However, the 307CC was even worse. The flimiest, "flexiest", most uncomfortable, horrible piece of crap imaginable.

Another vote for the Corsa too. They offend me truly, right down to that horrible sickly smell they seem to be blighted with.

Corsa is too vague?

There's different trims and engines...

0-60 in 8 seconds, 1000kg & 125bhp, that's warm hatch performance, but you'd disregard that because "Corsa"... hmm

My apologies for not explaining myself properly. This is a list (not exhaustive) of Corsas that I don't find very PH:

Hatchback 1.2i 70 Sting 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Sting 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Sting 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Sting 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S Sting 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Life 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S Sting R 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S Sting 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Life 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Life 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Life 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Easytronic Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Easytronic Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Life 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Life 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SE 5dr

Any other member that hasn't singled out a trim level and engine of Corsa that particularly troubles them, please follow suit.

[RammyMP]

robsco said:

My apologies for not explaining myself properly. This is a list (not exhaustive) of Corsas that I don't find very PH:

Hatchback 1.2i 70 Sting 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Sting 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Sting 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Sting 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S Sting 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Life 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S Sting R 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S Sting 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Life 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Life 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Life 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Easytronic Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 Easytronic Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Design 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Life 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.2i 70 SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 90 SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Design 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S Life 5dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.4i 100 Turbo SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SRi 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 90 S/S SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SRi 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SE 3dr
Hatchback 1.0i 115 S/S SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SE 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SRi VX-Line 3dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 75 S/S SRi VX-Line 5dr
Hatchback 1.3 CDTi 95 S/S SE 5dr

Any other member that hasn't singled out a trim level and engine of Corsa that particularly troubles them, please follow suit.

All Corsas are st. Move on.

[85Carrera]

Wadeski said:

See I can't agree with the antithesis of PH being cheap, practical cars. Basic utility transport for families isn't anti-PH and besides...it frees up cash for a weekend car that never works properly.

Surely the most anti-PH car is an expensive car with pretentions of being PH that fails miserably, based on similar logic to how Top Gear arrived at the Lexus SC430 as the worst car in the world.

The CitiRover is inexcusable though.

This is spot on. My daily driver/station car is a Dacia Duster, which is dull, practical, economical, can take a load of logs or do a trip to the garden centre or tip without me worrying about it.

Cars pretending/trying to be what they're not is much more un-PH (Audi TT perhaps?)

[Kitchski]