RE: Volkswagen Golf R: PH Fleet
Discussion
tim milne said:
I agree. This does feel like lazy journalism where PH merely tries to regurgitate what's being said in the forums — no more excruciatingly demonstrated than when Dan Trent quotes posts from the forums on the lamentable TV show — like they're letters to the Daily Telegraph.
Anyway, yes, you could delve much deeper into the actual experience of owning one. Pointing out that some people like them and some don't could be done from the side of the road and doesn't justify the largess of being given the use of one for months and months.
So, allow me to oblige...
I've been running one since November and here are my conclusions:
— It's good in all departments — performance, practicality, flexibility etc. but great in none. No single attribute stands out other than its all-roundedness.
— Yes, it's got no soul, either in its driving or its looks and the only time you'd turn around to look at it after parking it would be try and remember where you left it amongst all the other Golfs.
— It's not particularly economical, averaging 28mpg long term, maybe low 30s on a motorway run. Promises of 40mpg are fanciful.
— It's a potential threat to your licence since it makes big speeds with little drama, whisking you along A & B roads far faster than you'd imagine.
— The chassis is OK, but can be overwhelmed by complex surface changes: on more than one occasion it's kind of given up and bounced off its bump stops.
— The gear change is particular unpleasant with no hint of mechanical notchiness and a gear lever that bounces up and down (to do with reverse lock-out, but why not just in reverse?)
— If it has an outstanding feature — and just as well — it'd probably the brakes, which are impressive at retardation if still lacking any feel.
— The steering is inert and tells you very little about what's going on, though it's safe to assume that all four tyres are stuck to the road
— The controls and electronics are fine, if not more complicated than necessary. If you're stuck in heavy traffic with nothing to do, you quickly work out that there are lots of buttons that all basically do the same thing
— the Bluetooth phone thing works very well, and doesn't seem to get fazed by getting in and out of the car
— Unless you particularly like having your head battered — in which case an Ariel Atom is probably a better buy — you can't drive over 40 mph with the drivers window down.
— The standard wheels will inevitably get damaged on a kerb; it's probably better to take a screwdriver to them on delivery and get it over and done with.
— It's an easy car to like, but a hard car to love.
Next time PH gets offered a long-termer, I'd be happy to the reporting.
Thanks for this. It amazed me really that the folks at Autocar rated this car so highly and perhaps I should not have been as I have noticed a lot more VAG adverts in the Haymarket Press products recently...Anyway, yes, you could delve much deeper into the actual experience of owning one. Pointing out that some people like them and some don't could be done from the side of the road and doesn't justify the largess of being given the use of one for months and months.
So, allow me to oblige...
I've been running one since November and here are my conclusions:
— It's good in all departments — performance, practicality, flexibility etc. but great in none. No single attribute stands out other than its all-roundedness.
— Yes, it's got no soul, either in its driving or its looks and the only time you'd turn around to look at it after parking it would be try and remember where you left it amongst all the other Golfs.
— It's not particularly economical, averaging 28mpg long term, maybe low 30s on a motorway run. Promises of 40mpg are fanciful.
— It's a potential threat to your licence since it makes big speeds with little drama, whisking you along A & B roads far faster than you'd imagine.
— The chassis is OK, but can be overwhelmed by complex surface changes: on more than one occasion it's kind of given up and bounced off its bump stops.
— The gear change is particular unpleasant with no hint of mechanical notchiness and a gear lever that bounces up and down (to do with reverse lock-out, but why not just in reverse?)
— If it has an outstanding feature — and just as well — it'd probably the brakes, which are impressive at retardation if still lacking any feel.
— The steering is inert and tells you very little about what's going on, though it's safe to assume that all four tyres are stuck to the road
— The controls and electronics are fine, if not more complicated than necessary. If you're stuck in heavy traffic with nothing to do, you quickly work out that there are lots of buttons that all basically do the same thing
— the Bluetooth phone thing works very well, and doesn't seem to get fazed by getting in and out of the car
— Unless you particularly like having your head battered — in which case an Ariel Atom is probably a better buy — you can't drive over 40 mph with the drivers window down.
— The standard wheels will inevitably get damaged on a kerb; it's probably better to take a screwdriver to them on delivery and get it over and done with.
— It's an easy car to like, but a hard car to love.
Next time PH gets offered a long-termer, I'd be happy to the reporting.
Edited by chelme on Wednesday 12th August 08:46
It's Everyman, bland appearance is a bit of a blessing tbh. It's a car I can park anywhere without fear of it attracting attention. The VW badge doesn't draw the same prejudice from certain factions in the way Audi or BMW does so you never really feel hated. You also don't feel a pillock pulling up in one at a funeral, wedding, business meeting etc as I would in an impreza, new type R, focus RS etc.
All these current hot hatches offer an outstanding mix of performance and practicality. The Golf is a little better than the M135i at being a hot hatch (it felt more 3/4 size 3 series) and a little better than an RS Megane at being a shopping trolley.
All these current hot hatches offer an outstanding mix of performance and practicality. The Golf is a little better than the M135i at being a hot hatch (it felt more 3/4 size 3 series) and a little better than an RS Megane at being a shopping trolley.
sidesauce said:
chelme said:
I imagine there will be plenty pre-owned examples in the forecourts because their owners got bored with them...
I imagine you assume everyone who buys these cars thinks like you... When in fact they don't. Making you the minority.The debate is increasingly hard to follow.
It is a 4 cylinder, AWD shopping car with a lot of boost. It drives very well for the type of car that it is, and it goes well. And that is the end of the story.
The reason that it gets such good write-ups is that Autocar and others rate cars in the basis of 'fitness for purpose'. If you want a fast safety blanket car with decent performance, you probably don't mind that it has no steering feel and horrid brakes. It isn't competing with sports cars and shouldn't be compared to them. Within its segment, it is excellent.
If you don't like the Golf R, that's really not its fault. You just don't like fast, AWD hatches so probably shouldn't have test driven an R, let alone bought one.
It is a 4 cylinder, AWD shopping car with a lot of boost. It drives very well for the type of car that it is, and it goes well. And that is the end of the story.
The reason that it gets such good write-ups is that Autocar and others rate cars in the basis of 'fitness for purpose'. If you want a fast safety blanket car with decent performance, you probably don't mind that it has no steering feel and horrid brakes. It isn't competing with sports cars and shouldn't be compared to them. Within its segment, it is excellent.
If you don't like the Golf R, that's really not its fault. You just don't like fast, AWD hatches so probably shouldn't have test driven an R, let alone bought one.
nunpuncher said:
Vroom101 said:
So, two actual owners who have had the car for the same amount of time have completely different experiences of aspects of the car that you would expect to be pretty much the same. How the hell is the rest of the internet meant to make up their mind! 
I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
I can add further confusion by adding that as another owner (of slightly less time) I'm somewhere in the middle of these 2 opinions.I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
I drive it in Race mode all the time, don't make any real attempt to be economical and I'm averaging 30mpg long term. The average motorway jaunt with the odd blast up to speed usually sees mid 30s easily.
The brakes are stupidly over servo'd as usual with VAG. Not sure if they fade as you'd really need to be going some to experience that on the road.
No issue with the Bluetooth using an android device. Both phone and music streaming works very well.
Having had quite a few manual BMWs lately I rather rate the manual box. All the BMWs were hideously notchy where the golf is rather smooth and positive. The clutch is a little light and the shift could probably be improved with a weighted shifter. Otherwise good.
Chassis feels very capable. To the point that the engine can feel weak due to comparison. It does get bouncy on some surfaces but never wallows or rolls and it does bottom out rather easily. Some expensive coil overs would be a good addition but any stiffer as standard would be too much of a compromise for most owners I suspect.
The hype is over the top and a lot is fuelled by young leasers who are as excited as a dog with 2 d1cks getting such a car so cheaply coupled with the nonsense hot hatch power war that certain manufacturers seem to be participating in. It's a decent enough car. Definitely the best fast golf I've had but not the best car.
I hate it when people confuse over servo'd brakes with good brakes!
neil1jnr said:
Most sense I've read so far in regard to the Golf R.
I hate it when people confuse over servo'd brakes with good brakes!
Thank you.I hate it when people confuse over servo'd brakes with good brakes!
The people that think that way about the snatchy brakes are the same people that think the artificial weight added in certain electric power steering set ups passes as a more sporty, communicative experience. FWIW, I feel the electric steering in the Golf isn't the worst i've experienced recently. It's no Megane (those clever RS bods know what they are doing here) but jumping into a Cayman GTS the steering didn't feel any better or worse.
Vroom101 said:
I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
And that was slagged off as well, for being too slow and understeery.The current R can, point to point, run rings around all previous Rs, and any hot VW before it. And that's out of the box. The Golf has always had a massive aftermarket tuning industry behind it, so all of VW's playing it safe can easily be undone. You know, make it more rad and edgy for all the hipsters, and reduce the apparently super offensive tailpipe count to 2.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Vroom101 said:
I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
And that was slagged off as well, for being too slow and understeery.The current R can, point to point, run rings around all previous Rs, and any hot VW before it. And that's out of the box. The Golf has always had a massive aftermarket tuning industry behind it, so all of VW's playing it safe can easily be undone. You know, make it more rad and edgy for all the hipsters, and reduce the apparently super offensive tailpipe count to 2.
I do wonder if there would be so much debate if they weren't so easy to get hold of on the cheap lease deals.
Vroom101 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Vroom101 said:
I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
And that was slagged off as well, for being too slow and understeery.The current R can, point to point, run rings around all previous Rs, and any hot VW before it. And that's out of the box. The Golf has always had a massive aftermarket tuning industry behind it, so all of VW's playing it safe can easily be undone. You know, make it more rad and edgy for all the hipsters, and reduce the apparently super offensive tailpipe count to 2.
I do wonder if there would be so much debate if they weren't so easy to get hold of on the cheap lease deals.
For me personally I prefer go to show. A bland sounding 4 pot that can shove a Golf to 60 in 4.6 seconds is far more appealing than an angry, shouty 3.2 V6 that can only manage 6 seconds for the same sprint.
Just because a car can be rapid without shouting about it doesn't make it dull in my book. There's the Civic, the Focus and that French flimsy thing if people want cram it in your face flamboyant stuff.
I'm sure the R would have been fitted with the prototype R30 (V6) twin turbo engine if they could get it past Brussels, but like it or lump it, more and more performance cars are having their cylinder counts reduced, and the R doesn't do badly with a measely 4 imo. It's no looker, but doesn't offend my eyes either. Just VW doing what they do best - discrete, well, apart from the controversial tailpipes!
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Vroom101 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Vroom101 said:
I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
And that was slagged off as well, for being too slow and understeery.The current R can, point to point, run rings around all previous Rs, and any hot VW before it. And that's out of the box. The Golf has always had a massive aftermarket tuning industry behind it, so all of VW's playing it safe can easily be undone. You know, make it more rad and edgy for all the hipsters, and reduce the apparently super offensive tailpipe count to 2.
I do wonder if there would be so much debate if they weren't so easy to get hold of on the cheap lease deals.
For me personally I prefer go to show. A bland sounding 4 pot that can shove a Golf to 60 in 4.6 seconds is far more appealing than an angry, shouty 3.2 V6 that can only manage 6 seconds for the same sprint.
Just because a car can be rapid without shouting about it doesn't make it dull in my book. There's the Civic, the Focus and that French flimsy thing if people want cram it in your face flamboyant stuff.
I'm sure the R would have been fitted with the prototype R30 (V6) twin turbo engine if they could get it past Brussels, but like it or lump it, more and more performance cars are having their cylinder counts reduced, and the R doesn't do badly with a measely 4 imo. It's no looker, but doesn't offend my eyes either. Just VW doing what they do best - discrete, well, apart from the controversial tailpipes!
6k miles in now and loving them all... great mix of real world performance in a comfortable and practical everyday package.
Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
Ali_T said:
Has anyone mentioned you can get a gazillion bhp from a remap and that it can do 60mph before you've even started by created a tear in the space-time continuum yet? It's compulsory on all Golf R threads.
I'm sure it has somewhere! It will be in the next update anyway when they take it to a tuning specialist! I have flirted with the idea of sticking a tuning box on mine as I feel the mid-range in 3rd and 4th is somewhat lacking. Not enough shove when rolling for me, saying that it certainly isn't slow.. its difficult to appreciate how fast you are going at times as it's so smooth and the delivery is so linear, hence why it gets called boring I guess.
As for the brakes I don't have any complaints, quite the opposite in fact. Coped very well on a few long B road blasts not over servo'd in mine and no fade to report.. i'm sure on track it would be a different matter, however this is no track car.
Oh and everyones favourite subject economy... I've seen 39mpg on long motorway journeys, my long term average is currently 31 which is respectable.
jamiesim said:
6k miles in now and loving them all... great mix of real world performance in a comfortable and practical everyday package.
Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
Better...in a pointless test which doesn't remotely reflect why people buy these cars.Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
tomjol said:
jamiesim said:
6k miles in now and loving them all... great mix of real world performance in a comfortable and practical everyday package.
Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
Better...in a pointless test which doesn't remotely reflect why people buy these cars.Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
I started a thread regarding this review and honestly, regardless of what it is like on the road it sould be faster around the track than the R but it just isn't and it is less involving! Crazy seeing how the R isn't remotely involving in the first place!
neil1jnr said:
But it is reflective of the type of advertising Audi are pushing with the RS3, harking back at the old Quattro.
I started a thread regarding this review and honestly, regardless of what it is like on the road it sould be faster around the track than the R but it just isn't and it is less involving! Crazy seeing how the R isn't remotely involving in the first place!
Yes but marketing is just marketing, surely "serious" car magazines should know full well that it's about selling cars not making real-world claims?I started a thread regarding this review and honestly, regardless of what it is like on the road it sould be faster around the track than the R but it just isn't and it is less involving! Crazy seeing how the R isn't remotely involving in the first place!
Fast Audis have never been about track times or driver involvement, so why bother judging them on those terms? I just don't get it.
Darsettian said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Vroom101 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Vroom101 said:
I think there would be more love for the car if it still had a V6, like the original 'R' Golfs.
And that was slagged off as well, for being too slow and understeery.The current R can, point to point, run rings around all previous Rs, and any hot VW before it. And that's out of the box. The Golf has always had a massive aftermarket tuning industry behind it, so all of VW's playing it safe can easily be undone. You know, make it more rad and edgy for all the hipsters, and reduce the apparently super offensive tailpipe count to 2.
I do wonder if there would be so much debate if they weren't so easy to get hold of on the cheap lease deals.
For me personally I prefer go to show. A bland sounding 4 pot that can shove a Golf to 60 in 4.6 seconds is far more appealing than an angry, shouty 3.2 V6 that can only manage 6 seconds for the same sprint.
Just because a car can be rapid without shouting about it doesn't make it dull in my book. There's the Civic, the Focus and that French flimsy thing if people want cram it in your face flamboyant stuff.
I'm sure the R would have been fitted with the prototype R30 (V6) twin turbo engine if they could get it past Brussels, but like it or lump it, more and more performance cars are having their cylinder counts reduced, and the R doesn't do badly with a measely 4 imo. It's no looker, but doesn't offend my eyes either. Just VW doing what they do best - discrete, well, apart from the controversial tailpipes!
jamiesim said:
6k miles in now and loving them all... great mix of real world performance in a comfortable and practical everyday package.
Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
20K more? The PH Golf R was £36k!Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
I'd still rather have the Audi.
tomjol said:
jamiesim said:
6k miles in now and loving them all... great mix of real world performance in a comfortable and practical everyday package.
Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
Better...in a pointless test which doesn't remotely reflect why people buy these cars.Had a look at the new RS3 the other day by chance and thought, ooo maybe one of those next, though £20k more than the R - then I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3jWVTKYcP0
very interesting that though the RS3 is the 'better' VAG product it is beaten by its VW alternative! £20k saved!
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