RE: Porsche not perfect shocker: PH Blog
Discussion
A lot of it depends where you live. If I had gorgeous roads on my doorstep, a Lotus would make lots of sense, but I (like most people who can afford a £50k sports car) have to endure a motorway to get to nice roads. Porsches absolutely excel in getting you to nice roads as well as driving on them.
A lot of it depends where you live. If I had gorgeous roads on my doorstep, a Lotus would make lots of sense, but I (like most people who can afford a £50k sports car) have to endure a motorway to get to nice roads. Porsches absolutely excel in getting you to nice roads as well as driving on them.
ORD said:
A lot of it depends where you live. If I had gorgeous roads on my doorstep, a Lotus would make lots of sense, but I (like most people who can afford a £50k sports car) have to endure a motorway to get to nice roads. Porsches absolutely excel in getting you to nice roads as well as driving on them.
I only partially agree. The best cars for me are those which are alive at all speeds. My Elise is hugely entertaining at a 30mph bumble through town, primarily because its steering is truly brilliant. Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
SidewaysSi said:
I only partially agree. The best cars for me are those which are alive at all speeds. My Elise is hugely entertaining at a 30mph bumble through town, primarily because its steering is truly brilliant.
Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
True. But driving an Elise up to Scotland would a bit of an ordeal, for example. Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
ORD said:
SidewaysSi said:
I only partially agree. The best cars for me are those which are alive at all speeds. My Elise is hugely entertaining at a 30mph bumble through town, primarily because its steering is truly brilliant.
Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
True. But driving an Elise up to Scotland would a bit of an ordeal, for example. Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
SidewaysSi said:
ORD said:
SidewaysSi said:
I only partially agree. The best cars for me are those which are alive at all speeds. My Elise is hugely entertaining at a 30mph bumble through town, primarily because its steering is truly brilliant.
Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
True. But driving an Elise up to Scotland would a bit of an ordeal, for example. Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
Have fun
ORD said:
True. But driving an Elise up to Scotland would a bit of an ordeal, for example.
Given modern road and traffic density conditions in the UK, that can be a frustrating ordeal in any car. We have an Elise S2 in the immediate family and I drive it frequently. Totally impractical for most reasons I use a car for but, the fun factor is a big plus.Driving to Scotland, rather take the train with the Elise on it... You could do that once... I wonder if in the Privatised/State supported mish-mash which is the UK's rail services now that would be possible ...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Which bits didn't you like about the Elise? Whilst I have driven a number of different models, I have obviously spent the most time in my S1.It has brilliantly judged pedal positioning that easily allows heel and toe changes, excellent brakes for both feel and retardation (though mine have recently been upgraded), a very good gearchange (not weighty but more than quick enough) and brilliant throttle response.
An Elise will never have the engine note of a flat 6, however with a few choice mods they will pop, bang and shoot flames if needed.
Horses for courses and all that but I find my Elise as much fun as my Caterham. Which for a car with proper doors and usability is a great achievement in my eyes.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If you are after heft and sophistication then the Elise won't be for you but that's why they weigh what they do.Interestingly I have recently bought an E36 328i which does have those qualities but I am finding it too heavy and lacking any poise or fun. I will persevere with it but I think it will need a lot of money being chucked at it to get it to where I want it to be.
MGJohn said:
Driving to Scotland, rather take the train with the Elise on it... You could do that once... I wonder if in the Privatised/State supported mish-mash which is the UK's rail services now that would be possible ...
The main services ended in 1995: little-used, massively loss-making, highly prone to claims for damage to vehicles, and lamented mainly by people who never used them.A reboot was tried on London to Penzance from 1999 to 2005, but that didn't work either. As with sleeper services it's one of those things that seems tremendously attractive as a romantic idea but when people are confronted with the actual reality, which is never as James Bond as the notion, and what it costs to provide it, they predominantly choose to spend their money on petrol and hotels instead.
ORD said:
SidewaysSi said:
I only partially agree. The best cars for me are those which are alive at all speeds. My Elise is hugely entertaining at a 30mph bumble through town, primarily because its steering is truly brilliant.
Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
True. But driving an Elise up to Scotland would a bit of an ordeal, for example. Add in a few roundabouts and it is a car which more than shows its hand.
A great Welsh road is all well and good but for me, the mark of a great car is its ability to deliver at all speeds.
Each day, I was looking forward to getting in and doing 5 hours driving, at no point did the sense of occasion wear off.
This does appear to be a recirculating argument and I respect the differing opinions. I have not driven an Elise and therefore have no standing to compare its abilities, although it does have an excellent reputation.
However, I have had a string of BMW M cars going back to the E24, through the E39 and ending with an E63 M6 , and have had a variety of Porsches over the years, from a 911S ( just a used car in those days), to a couple of 997 RS, and I have kept the RS.1 as my manual, hydraulic,no PASM, no dynamic engine mount car, and pick up a 991 RS on Sep.2.
I spent a few weeks with a 991S and on that particular model, I found it to be a bit too refined and soft for me compared with the RS. Still, whenever a new model appears there seems to be a fair amount of "the old one was better".
When the 7.1RS came out, there was a LOT of criticism that the car was a lot less tracky than the 996 RS, ( though more roadable). Then, the 7.2RS was blessed by journos and got a bit a reputation, followed by the 4.0 of course. Having done thousands of miles in the 3.6 and 3.8 they are very good drivers' cars, but I am seeing the same thing now in web reports and discussions..the new car is not as tactile as the old one, though the numbers are .as always ,better.
I cannot yet take a position on this as it will be a couple of weeks before I get on a track, but it seems to me that the cars are not "better" or "worse". Just very different.
Regulations are changing, the marketplace is changing, and just as there is a discussion on another thread about cars you could work on yourself. and the new generation of cars where the electronics are so integral that it precludes home mechanics, we need to move with the times.
I think the electric vs hydraulic steering issue is very close to being solved (based on what I have read), and I would bet there will be no difference by the 991.2RS. WHile there is lots of noise about another NA manual car, I think it might happen, but it will be a runout car. In the expensive car market, there are virtually no manuals left. I think the NA engine will shortly be toast too.
There will be very,very good drivers' cars with manual about one or two levels down in price, fun. less costly, less complex. If Porsche thought there was a mass market for top end traditional cars, I assume they would build them.
However, I have had a string of BMW M cars going back to the E24, through the E39 and ending with an E63 M6 , and have had a variety of Porsches over the years, from a 911S ( just a used car in those days), to a couple of 997 RS, and I have kept the RS.1 as my manual, hydraulic,no PASM, no dynamic engine mount car, and pick up a 991 RS on Sep.2.
I spent a few weeks with a 991S and on that particular model, I found it to be a bit too refined and soft for me compared with the RS. Still, whenever a new model appears there seems to be a fair amount of "the old one was better".
When the 7.1RS came out, there was a LOT of criticism that the car was a lot less tracky than the 996 RS, ( though more roadable). Then, the 7.2RS was blessed by journos and got a bit a reputation, followed by the 4.0 of course. Having done thousands of miles in the 3.6 and 3.8 they are very good drivers' cars, but I am seeing the same thing now in web reports and discussions..the new car is not as tactile as the old one, though the numbers are .as always ,better.
I cannot yet take a position on this as it will be a couple of weeks before I get on a track, but it seems to me that the cars are not "better" or "worse". Just very different.
Regulations are changing, the marketplace is changing, and just as there is a discussion on another thread about cars you could work on yourself. and the new generation of cars where the electronics are so integral that it precludes home mechanics, we need to move with the times.
I think the electric vs hydraulic steering issue is very close to being solved (based on what I have read), and I would bet there will be no difference by the 991.2RS. WHile there is lots of noise about another NA manual car, I think it might happen, but it will be a runout car. In the expensive car market, there are virtually no manuals left. I think the NA engine will shortly be toast too.
There will be very,very good drivers' cars with manual about one or two levels down in price, fun. less costly, less complex. If Porsche thought there was a mass market for top end traditional cars, I assume they would build them.
I had the pleasure of driving 4 different GTS's at the PEC back in June, all were wonderful, the Targa 4GTS with ceramics was superb.
It's all very subjective I get that and what car is perfect other than in the eye of the beholder?
To me the GTS sounds immense, has oodles of power, loads of grip, brilliant brakes and looks great inside and out with a wonderfully balanced chassis.
Does it have the steering feel of my old manual 997 C2S? No, does it feel as much of a "911"? No, but they didn't set out to recreate that car they wanted to widen the appeal and I get that too, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
It's all very subjective I get that and what car is perfect other than in the eye of the beholder?
To me the GTS sounds immense, has oodles of power, loads of grip, brilliant brakes and looks great inside and out with a wonderfully balanced chassis.
Does it have the steering feel of my old manual 997 C2S? No, does it feel as much of a "911"? No, but they didn't set out to recreate that car they wanted to widen the appeal and I get that too, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
Wills2 said:
I had the pleasure of driving 4 different GTS's at the PEC back in June, all were wonderful, the Targa 4GTS with ceramics was superb.
It's all very subjective I get that and what car is perfect other than in the eye of the beholder?
To me the GTS sounds immense, has oodles of power, loads of grip, brilliant brakes and looks great inside and out with a wonderfully balanced chassis.
Does it have the steering feel of my old manual 997 C2S? No, does it feel as much of a "911"? No, but they didn't set out to recreate that car they wanted to widen the appeal and I get that too, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
In my experience it's easy to be seduced by the 991 when you have it for short periods of time. Living with the thing day-to-day life becomes boring. It's all very subjective I get that and what car is perfect other than in the eye of the beholder?
To me the GTS sounds immense, has oodles of power, loads of grip, brilliant brakes and looks great inside and out with a wonderfully balanced chassis.
Does it have the steering feel of my old manual 997 C2S? No, does it feel as much of a "911"? No, but they didn't set out to recreate that car they wanted to widen the appeal and I get that too, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
When I sold my 991 I felt not a flicker of remorse. It was like having been in a relationship with a beautiful woman who cooked beautifully, shagged like a w
e and ironed to perfection but who couldn't hold an interesting conversation.Rowley Birkin said:
In my experience it's easy to be seduced by the 991 when you have it for short periods of time. Living with the thing day-to-day life becomes boring.
When I sold my 991 I felt not a flicker of remorse. It was like having been in a relationship with a beautiful woman who cooked beautifully, shagged like a we and ironed to perfection but who couldn't hold an interesting conversation.
You've lost me with the analogy. Anyone sane would miss that wife.When I sold my 991 I felt not a flicker of remorse. It was like having been in a relationship with a beautiful woman who cooked beautifully, shagged like a w
e and ironed to perfection but who couldn't hold an interesting conversation.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff