RE: Porsche not perfect shocker: PH Blog
Discussion
PhantomPH said:
Here's a radical thought - I buy a Porsche that your engineers have decided is the RIGHT set up and has the RIGHT road manners....
It's called the base car. I bought one one. It's really rather good! 
If you want "extra buttons and shiny bits" Mr Porsche will be happy to charge a further £15k for fundamentally the same car...
Ozzie Osmond said:
PhantomPH said:
Here's a radical thought - I buy a Porsche that your engineers have decided is the RIGHT set up and has the RIGHT road manners....
It's called the base car. I bought one one. It's really rather good! If you want "extra buttons and shiny bits" Mr Porsche will be happy to charge a further £15k for fundamentally the same car...
PhantomPH said:
But isn't that the discussion? It's NOT fundamentally the same car - it can handle and perform very differently depending on which of those options you tick. The base car can behave very differently to one with £15k of mechanical options on.
And Porsche will say - your choice ticks do not make it a better car ( we have made a very good car), merely different & bespoke for you Sir.Monty Python said:
Housey said:
Yea....well except the tyres thing, they are s
te.
There you go - I've been running Pirelli P Zero RFTs for over a year now and I don't have an issue with either the ride or the handling.te.But that isn't this thread, that's another one.
Monty Python said:
Housey said:
Yea....well except the tyres thing, they are ste.
There you go - I've been running Pirelli P Zero RFTs for over a year now and I don't have an issue with either the ride or the handling.te.But that isn't this thread, that's another one.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But we knew it was a pumped up Cayman with a GT3 suspension & blessed by AP. That was the concept one could buy into. Speccing a PCM/leather/air-con/colour is all rather easy. I do think you need to sit in the seats if you are opting for the more expensive choices.PhantomPH said:
If I were to order my Porsche and the salesman said, "Do you want active engine mounts and funky suspension?", I would have to reply with, "How the fk should I know?? I've never worked in your engineering or test department!!".
"Well, can I try two cars please? One with and one without and see which I prefer?"
"No Sir - we don't have any to test drive / everyone always ticks the funky suspension box"
At which point you are running the risk of making a very expensive mistake. It would be easy to assume that ticking every box gave you the best possible 911, but the reality is that that is not always the case.
Here's a radical thought - I buy a Porsche that your engineers have decided is the RIGHT set up and has the RIGHT road manners...THAT'S WHAT I'M bd-WELL PAYING YOU £100k+ FOR!!! Then I can choose the colours and the cloth and the stereo...you know...the st that doesn't matter/doesn't assume a knowledge of automotive engineering.
^^^^ This ... just this GLOL k should I know?? I've never worked in your engineering or test department!!"."Well, can I try two cars please? One with and one without and see which I prefer?"
"No Sir - we don't have any to test drive / everyone always ticks the funky suspension box"
At which point you are running the risk of making a very expensive mistake. It would be easy to assume that ticking every box gave you the best possible 911, but the reality is that that is not always the case.
Here's a radical thought - I buy a Porsche that your engineers have decided is the RIGHT set up and has the RIGHT road manners...THAT'S WHAT I'M b
d-WELL PAYING YOU £100k+ FOR!!! Then I can choose the colours and the cloth and the stereo...you know...the st that doesn't matter/doesn't assume a knowledge of automotive engineering.
CDP said:
Beef dripping every time.
This and This. Have you ever had fish and chips down south? Bloody terrible. Now, having the real thing at Seahouses or Alnwick, is just tremendous.
As for the Porsche, it's a brave journalist who puts their head above the parapet to criticise a VAG product. But on the whole, I think Porsche make fantastic cars. I so desperately want a new Boxster S PDK. However, I think everyone can agree they blew it with the Cayman GT4 and those looooooooooong ratios.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
GT3, no idea but it is not unpopular and in fact so popular, it is worth more than list. A GT car though, and not my preference. A new target audience.Ratios seem long, but in the real world or on a lap at the "ring/Spa/Silverstone, how much better (time & sensation) would it be with 10% shorter ratios
We know what the Cayman GTS is like, so it was a safe bet to buy the car at the list of £65k. AFAIK people bought the 918 without driving that and that was 10 times as much. Few duds now.
I still don't like PASM. Ride becomes far too hard for road use. I'd rather have a conventional set up designed to work on the road. There's loads of new options you can have like power steering plus ( or was that BMW?) dynamic engine mounts, adaptive headlights, keyless entry etc etc.
I question the longevity of much of this tech. I'll be amazed if a lot of this stuff hasn't started wetting itself within a decade and entailing much expensive remedial work to rectify.
I had an afternoon in a 991 GTS a few weeks ago and found it fantastic. The quality of the PDK shifts coupled with PSE made the drive quite an event. I wouldn't be brave enough to spec alcantara on the steering wheel but it did feel nice and made the interior feel special. The buckets helped with that too.
It's arguably, I think, a bit much for the road in that there is serious temptation to rip along all the time. However, there are a multitude of quick cars that feel that way. You can also poodle along in it like you are driving something mundane. It does that without riding badly, as many other cars on 20" wheels and liquorice profile tyres do. I found not much not to like and a lot to applaud. Makes my 993 feel like riding a mule in comparison.
I question the longevity of much of this tech. I'll be amazed if a lot of this stuff hasn't started wetting itself within a decade and entailing much expensive remedial work to rectify.
I had an afternoon in a 991 GTS a few weeks ago and found it fantastic. The quality of the PDK shifts coupled with PSE made the drive quite an event. I wouldn't be brave enough to spec alcantara on the steering wheel but it did feel nice and made the interior feel special. The buckets helped with that too.
It's arguably, I think, a bit much for the road in that there is serious temptation to rip along all the time. However, there are a multitude of quick cars that feel that way. You can also poodle along in it like you are driving something mundane. It does that without riding badly, as many other cars on 20" wheels and liquorice profile tyres do. I found not much not to like and a lot to applaud. Makes my 993 feel like riding a mule in comparison.
highway said:
I found not much not to like and a lot to applaud.
My word its depressing but that is 100% how I feel about pretty much every impressive car made over the past 30 years. It took a race car build to give me the feelings again I got from my 80s mini back when I was a lad. I don't like to dwell to much on this point because its a feeling much like that scene in the Matrix when Neo takes that pill and wakes up in the real reality, performance cars one big huge con and self deluding lie.NJH said:
My word its depressing but that is 100% how I feel about pretty much every impressive car made over the past 30 years. It took a race car build to give me the feelings again I got from my 80s mini back when I was a lad. I don't like to dwell to much on this point because its a feeling much like that scene in the Matrix when Neo takes that pill and wakes up in the real reality, performance cars one big huge con and self deluding lie.
You can't beat a Mini though, my Dad and I refurbished one that we bought in 2007 for £300, t'was a shed (a similar car would be much dearer now though), it's not really that fast at all in the grand scheme of things. But it is quite heavily modified, nippy (sorta), pointy, noisy and every time you thrash the arse off of it on a twisty, bumpy back road it feels like the world is ending.F'in awesome, basically.
I never understand whining about options. Choose the ones you want; don't choose the ones you don't want.
Porsche wouldn't make any less profit if it did things differently. You would just have to pay for things you don't want. We would all be paying for nonsense like heated steering wheels if manufacturers didn't offer a fairly basic version to begin with. If you don't want the junk, you get the car cheaper than it would otherwise be, and you are effectively subsidised by the idiots who tick every box and get a worse car!
Give me the smallest wheels, plenty of leather and...um...passive suspension...and stick the rest
Porsche wouldn't make any less profit if it did things differently. You would just have to pay for things you don't want. We would all be paying for nonsense like heated steering wheels if manufacturers didn't offer a fairly basic version to begin with. If you don't want the junk, you get the car cheaper than it would otherwise be, and you are effectively subsidised by the idiots who tick every box and get a worse car!
Give me the smallest wheels, plenty of leather and...um...passive suspension...and stick the rest
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