Any of the current crop of small cars actually fun to drive?
Discussion
ORD said:
Nope. But it's a Citroen, so will be set up for squish and wallow. 'Good to drive' is highly subjective
Yes and all German cars are reliable.....I was offering a suggestion based on personal experience not just assumptions.
A competent hatch that is fun to drive, that is based on actually driving one, and the mpg seems good. Just an alternitive suggestion to cars that are high revving and loud at motorway speeds.
Having driven both, a panda is absolutely nothing like a 500 sport or abarth. I would have either 500 as my daily drive. They're an absolute hoot. Handle like a go cart and feel really superb to pilot. Seats are a little budget though. But maybe that's to be expected. Id love to try a 595 competitixione with the sparcos. But that is out of my budget too.
If you haven't driven one give it a try. I'd have the White. Or the French racing powder blue. Others would go grey or black for less obtrusiveness. I say f
k it! Wear pink crocs and who cares what anybody else thinks!
If you haven't driven one give it a try. I'd have the White. Or the French racing powder blue. Others would go grey or black for less obtrusiveness. I say f
k it! Wear pink crocs and who cares what anybody else thinks!Ghost91 said:
I drove a Citroen (hear me out...) DS3 1.6 THP DSport today.
150 brake, nice inside and overall a nice car. Might fit the bill? I didn't even know it existed tbh!
I got one to replace a Mk 6 VW Golf R. 150 brake, nice inside and overall a nice car. Might fit the bill? I didn't even know it existed tbh!
It's more fun to drive than the Golf and has been more reliable (in that nothing has broken in either of them, but the bluetooth connection in the DS3 is more stable for streaming music).
AlexC1981 said:
Very helpful thank you. 
Right, the Panda is definately out.
It's a shame the current model 1.3vvt-i Yaris gets slated so badly for the handling. 99bhp, 132Nm, 1005Kg, 52mpg and a 6-speed box. It sounded so promising.
The 1.6 Swift Sport is a bit on the pricey side and economy is not good. The 1.2 is a bit underpowered which is a shame. The ecoboost Fiesta is over budget unfortunately as it sounds like a great car.
I think I have narrowed it down to two cars:
The Twingo 1.2tce Gordini is a very good option. 98bhp, 155Nm, 980Kg, 9.5 sec 3600x1927. 49Mpg. £5000. 100bhp/t, 158.16Nm/t, but there are hardly any for sale at the moment that are new enough to consider. It has more torque per tonne than the Swift Sport as standard and when re-mapped only 8bhp shy per tonne. Only a 5-speed box though unlike the more recent edition of the Swift Sport. Re-mapped gets another 18bhp and 28Nm on top of the standard. I did want to avoid Renault as I would like a change, but this isn't vital.
The Ibiza 1.2 tsi 103Bhp, 175Nm, 1095kg, 9.5 sec, 4052x1693, 55mpg, £6700, 94bhp/t. 159.82Nm/t. Responds well to chipping, with another 20bhp and 40Nm (!) more easily obtainable if Superchips know their stuff. It's going to be £1500 to £2000 more expensive than the Twingo.
The Fabia and Polo with the same engines have quite possibly the blandest interior and dashboard design I have ever seen. The Ibiza appears better in every aspect than the Fabia/Polo, but it does not have the fun and cheeky appearance of the Twingo.
I have to seriously consider the economy as I drive 60-70 miles per day and this is supposed to be my sensible daily driver with a bit of fun thrown in. I've got my TR7 for speedy thrills.
It sounds like you've done your research and those two both sound like good choices. I would just suggest that you go and try both now and buy the one that you enjoy driving the most. I test drove a used MINI Cooper S earlier this year and loved it having fancied one for over 10 years but ended up buying a Honda Civic instead because it was a bit more practical and I could get one that was newer, lower mileage and still in manufacturer's warranty for similar money. The Civic is a good car but not fun, so I kind of wish that I had just got the MINI!Right, the Panda is definately out.
It's a shame the current model 1.3vvt-i Yaris gets slated so badly for the handling. 99bhp, 132Nm, 1005Kg, 52mpg and a 6-speed box. It sounded so promising.
The 1.6 Swift Sport is a bit on the pricey side and economy is not good. The 1.2 is a bit underpowered which is a shame. The ecoboost Fiesta is over budget unfortunately as it sounds like a great car.
I think I have narrowed it down to two cars:
The Twingo 1.2tce Gordini is a very good option. 98bhp, 155Nm, 980Kg, 9.5 sec 3600x1927. 49Mpg. £5000. 100bhp/t, 158.16Nm/t, but there are hardly any for sale at the moment that are new enough to consider. It has more torque per tonne than the Swift Sport as standard and when re-mapped only 8bhp shy per tonne. Only a 5-speed box though unlike the more recent edition of the Swift Sport. Re-mapped gets another 18bhp and 28Nm on top of the standard. I did want to avoid Renault as I would like a change, but this isn't vital.
The Ibiza 1.2 tsi 103Bhp, 175Nm, 1095kg, 9.5 sec, 4052x1693, 55mpg, £6700, 94bhp/t. 159.82Nm/t. Responds well to chipping, with another 20bhp and 40Nm (!) more easily obtainable if Superchips know their stuff. It's going to be £1500 to £2000 more expensive than the Twingo.
The Fabia and Polo with the same engines have quite possibly the blandest interior and dashboard design I have ever seen. The Ibiza appears better in every aspect than the Fabia/Polo, but it does not have the fun and cheeky appearance of the Twingo.
I have to seriously consider the economy as I drive 60-70 miles per day and this is supposed to be my sensible daily driver with a bit of fun thrown in. I've got my TR7 for speedy thrills.
Edited by AlexC1981 on Saturday 22 August 12:33
I like the Twingo and think of it as a less "girly", non-retro alternative to a Fiat 500 but personally (mainly because my dad had a Renault in the early 90s and it was crap, I have probably unfairly, a bit of an anti-Renault prejudice), so I would get the SEAT as I prefer "German" cars but I do think it would be a better long distance/motorway companion than the Twingo and I know first hand that the 1.2 TSI is very economical (although possibly not as fun on a B-road). You surprise me on the interior. Traditionally, I would rank them VW-SEAT-Skoda in terms of interiors. My dad had a 2010 Polo and I thought the interior was alright (like a mini-Golf really) and certainly nicer than the one in my old-shape 2008 Polo. The SEAT looks a bit sportier though, especially as a 3 door, so I get why you might prefer the SEAT.
Having said that, like you say, both cars are relatively rare within your budget. I think the 1.2 TSI Ibiza is the quickest non-diesel manual Ibiza (I would steer clear of DSG) and I see three 2011 Twingo Gordinis for sale on A/T at the moment between 3800 and 5000 pounds which look OK. I believe the Twingo was facelifted in 2012, after which it was only available with a 1.2 NA petrol or as a Renaultsport with the 1.6, so you won't get a turbo newer than 2011.
For my money, I would find it difficult to buy the 1.2 turbo over one of these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Similar age, mileage and price to the Gordinis, more torque (118 lb ft) albeit probably at higher rpm, 0-60mph in 8.7s, 133bhp and still only 1005kg. Granted, with a chip, you could probably get close to/better than those figures but the Renaultsport also has more equipment, looks tougher and other chassis enhancements to help you enjoy hooning it too. I think it's a band higher for RFL but still 43.5mpg (is 7mpg really going to hurt you that much)?
More importantly, there are much more to choose from (52 on A/T) and I imagine come resale time, you will get a better return on your Renaultsport than the turbo. That would probably my choice. If you think of the 1.2 as the normal MG Metro, the Renaultsport is the equivalent to your MG Metro Turbo!
You can even get a newer facelift one in budget (although personally, I'm not sure about the rear lights, so would go for pre-facelift), although the Liquid Yellow one looks lovely but it's 10000 pounds!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 24th August 05:29
I love the DS3. It looks great inside and out, but I really fancy a petrol this time for a change and hopefully a better experience. It's a shame Citroen stopped making the C2 in 2010 as I always wanted one of those.
I have been considering mpg as an important issue otherwise there is no way I would be looking at 1.2's
I have been looking at the “real world mpg” figures on the Honest Johns website as submitted by drivers and the overall fuel cost per year and that does give a different perspective.
Cost of a years fuel calculated based on 115p per litre, 13K miles and the given mpg.
Mazda 2 1.5 – 40.9mpg
Swift Sport – 42.1mpg. £1614.35 years fuel. Insurance group 19, £180 tax.
Picanto 1.25 – 48.4mpg. £1404.22 years fuel. Insurance group 5, £0 tax.
Twingo 1.6 – 41.3mpg. £1645.62 years fuel. Insurance group 20, £180 tax.
Twingo 1.2 tce – 33mpg (figure looks anomalous to me, see the other readings below, which is the same engine in heavier cars). Insurance group 20, £130 tax .
Clio 1.2tce – 41.6mpg. £1633.75 years fuel.
Modus 1.2tce – 38.7mpg
Wind 1.2tce – 37.7mpg
Ibiza 1.2tsi – 43.3mpg. £1569.61 years fuel. Insurance group 12, £110 tax
Fabia 1.2tsi – 45.7mpg (Honest John) 44.9mpg (What Car)
Polo 1.2tsi – 49.5mpg
Colt 1.5 Ralliart – 39.7mpg. £1711.94 years fuel.
Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost (125bhp) 44.2mpg
The Twingo does not have mpg computer/readout, so those figures will have been calculated by the people submitting the data to Honest John. Not sure if all the other cars on the list do. If we assume the Twingo 1.2tce gets the same mpg as the Clio that pretty much the same as the Twingo 1.6 and Swift Sport! If I chip the 1.2tce for more power it will probably be worse mpg for fewer bhp than the 1.6.
I like that the Swift Sport has a 6-speed, so mpg should be better for me as I mainly drive on the motorway. Should be quieter at speed too and overall, I think the Swift Sport would be a slightly better car than the Twingo 1.6. You know what bugs me about the Twingo? It's a small thing, but lazy design and cost cutting by not switching round the speedometer/radio binnacle to suit RHD cars, so we have to look right over to the left to see the speedo readout. The Swift will be at least £1000 more expensive to buy though. As I will most likely only own the car for 3 years, purchase cost and the re-sale value is an important one.
I am surprised at the variation between submitted figures and official. The computer in my Laguna is currently showing 47mpg (6-speed, 2.0 diesel, 173bhp). The official figure is also 47mpg! It was reading 44mpg for ages though some time back. Honest John shows the real world figure as 43.1mpg.
I was hoping that with a small capacity petrol engine in a small car I would see a saving on fuel, but if I can get about the same I will be happy enough.
I don't have a prejudice against French cars. Mine hasn’t been too bad considering it's done 129K miles (70K are mine). My German built 2004 Astra coupe is the only modern car I have owned that has actually left me stranded (rusted coolant pipe spraying over the engine and making lots of scary looking steam) and it was only 5 years old at the time.
I have got the day off work today, so I am going to have a nose round some dealerships now.
I am tempted to reconsider the Picanto as it looks very smart, especially the 3-door and it will be the cheapest option by far. (cheapest to buy, best economy, no tax and lowest insurance), but whilst Parkers say the handling is great, What Car say it's rubbish. Car Buyer say it's unexciting and rolls around. Top Gear don't even mention the handling in the review.
ORD said:
Small turbo engines are extremely boring. I wouldn't go for speed as much as handling, a nice peaky engine and a bit of character. None of these cars will be fast, so focussing on 0-60 is kinda missing the point. A 9 second car is slow. A 10 second car is slow. I wouldn't worry about the numbers.
If you must take mpg into account, you should rely on the 'real world' figures available on the net rather than official figures. These cars will use very similar amounts of fuel in the real world, and the difference in costs over a year will be small.
The biggest difference will be gearing, and a tall top gear would be good on the motorway anyway. The rest is official cycle bks that means nothing on the road.
Perhaps with a small petrol turbo engine I am going to end up with an engine that behaves like a bigger turbo diesel anyway, so I will have the worst of both worlds – the economy of petrol, but the characteristic of diesel. If you must take mpg into account, you should rely on the 'real world' figures available on the net rather than official figures. These cars will use very similar amounts of fuel in the real world, and the difference in costs over a year will be small.
The biggest difference will be gearing, and a tall top gear would be good on the motorway anyway. The rest is official cycle b
ks that means nothing on the road.I have been considering mpg as an important issue otherwise there is no way I would be looking at 1.2's
I have been looking at the “real world mpg” figures on the Honest Johns website as submitted by drivers and the overall fuel cost per year and that does give a different perspective.Cost of a years fuel calculated based on 115p per litre, 13K miles and the given mpg.
Mazda 2 1.5 – 40.9mpg
Swift Sport – 42.1mpg. £1614.35 years fuel. Insurance group 19, £180 tax.
Picanto 1.25 – 48.4mpg. £1404.22 years fuel. Insurance group 5, £0 tax.
Twingo 1.6 – 41.3mpg. £1645.62 years fuel. Insurance group 20, £180 tax.
Twingo 1.2 tce – 33mpg (figure looks anomalous to me, see the other readings below, which is the same engine in heavier cars). Insurance group 20, £130 tax .
Clio 1.2tce – 41.6mpg. £1633.75 years fuel.
Modus 1.2tce – 38.7mpg
Wind 1.2tce – 37.7mpg
Ibiza 1.2tsi – 43.3mpg. £1569.61 years fuel. Insurance group 12, £110 tax
Fabia 1.2tsi – 45.7mpg (Honest John) 44.9mpg (What Car)
Polo 1.2tsi – 49.5mpg
Colt 1.5 Ralliart – 39.7mpg. £1711.94 years fuel.
Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost (125bhp) 44.2mpg
The Twingo does not have mpg computer/readout, so those figures will have been calculated by the people submitting the data to Honest John. Not sure if all the other cars on the list do. If we assume the Twingo 1.2tce gets the same mpg as the Clio that pretty much the same as the Twingo 1.6 and Swift Sport! If I chip the 1.2tce for more power it will probably be worse mpg for fewer bhp than the 1.6.
I like that the Swift Sport has a 6-speed, so mpg should be better for me as I mainly drive on the motorway. Should be quieter at speed too and overall, I think the Swift Sport would be a slightly better car than the Twingo 1.6. You know what bugs me about the Twingo? It's a small thing, but lazy design and cost cutting by not switching round the speedometer/radio binnacle to suit RHD cars, so we have to look right over to the left to see the speedo readout. The Swift will be at least £1000 more expensive to buy though. As I will most likely only own the car for 3 years, purchase cost and the re-sale value is an important one.
I am surprised at the variation between submitted figures and official. The computer in my Laguna is currently showing 47mpg (6-speed, 2.0 diesel, 173bhp). The official figure is also 47mpg! It was reading 44mpg for ages though some time back. Honest John shows the real world figure as 43.1mpg.
I was hoping that with a small capacity petrol engine in a small car I would see a saving on fuel, but if I can get about the same I will be happy enough.
I don't have a prejudice against French cars. Mine hasn’t been too bad considering it's done 129K miles (70K are mine). My German built 2004 Astra coupe is the only modern car I have owned that has actually left me stranded (rusted coolant pipe spraying over the engine and making lots of scary looking steam) and it was only 5 years old at the time.
I have got the day off work today, so I am going to have a nose round some dealerships now.
I am tempted to reconsider the Picanto as it looks very smart, especially the 3-door and it will be the cheapest option by far. (cheapest to buy, best economy, no tax and lowest insurance), but whilst Parkers say the handling is great, What Car say it's rubbish. Car Buyer say it's unexciting and rolls around. Top Gear don't even mention the handling in the review.
Edited by AlexC1981 on Monday 24th August 12:53
AlexC1981 said:
I am tempted to reconsider the Picanto as it looks very smart, especially the 3-door and it will be the cheapest option by far. (cheapest to buy, best economy, no tax and lowest insurance), but whilst Parkers say the handling is great, What Car say it's rubbish. Car Buyer say it's unexciting and rolls around. Top Gear don't even mention the handling in the review.
I would ignore those websites for things like handling and ride. They are fine for things like "How big is the boot?", but they have no clue about dynamics. Autocar is the only website that I would use for that kind of thing.AlexC1981 said:
I love the DS3. It looks great inside and out, but I really fancy a petrol this time for a change and hopefully a better experience. It's a shame Citroen stopped making the C2 in 2010 as I always wanted one of those
It is a petrol, same engine as the cooper S I believe but not sure on that. I'm sure that other chap will pipe in again in a minute saying how crap it is but I thought it was a reasonable suggestion..
Get the swift!!
Edited by Ghost91 on Monday 24th August 13:05
That's a good call with Autocar reviews as their reviews go into more detail on the handling side. In terms of handling they seem to rate them in the order as follows:
Great - Swift Sport / Renault Twingo (normal version)
Good - Colt (normal version) / Ibiza
Fair/poor - Picanto.
(I really must get away from the computer now and get out!)
Great - Swift Sport / Renault Twingo (normal version)
Good - Colt (normal version) / Ibiza
Fair/poor - Picanto.
(I really must get away from the computer now and get out!)
AlexC1981 said:
That's a good call with Autocar reviews as their reviews go into more detail on the handling side. In terms of handling they seem to rate them in the order as follows:
Great - Swift Sport / Renault Twingo (normal version)
Good - Colt (normal version) / Ibiza
Fair/poor - Picanto.
(I really must get away from the computer now and get out!)
You've got the day off to look at cars and you're till slumped over the computer talking to strangers at 13:18?Great - Swift Sport / Renault Twingo (normal version)
Good - Colt (normal version) / Ibiza
Fair/poor - Picanto.
(I really must get away from the computer now and get out!)
Stop fathing and get out there.
You're over analysing things.
With your budget I would go for a MINI Cooper or Swift Sport and sod the MPG/torque/0-60/BHP per tonne crap.
They will be the most fun to drive and keep their price especially the MINI.
I had my brother in laws MINI Cooper for 3 weeks last year and really enjoyed driving it.
I was commuting 80 miles per day and it was perfectly fine for those miles.
Even though it had 130k miles on the clock, was 12 years old and had led a hard life it still felt solid with no squeaks or rattles.
No idea what MPG I got out of it but estimate 40ish of mixed driving.
My brother had a MINI Cooper and it was an unmitigated disaster by any metric. Grossly unreliable (which it hit and miss, I guess - he must've got a bad one), terrible fuel economy for the performance, and I found the ride less forgiving than most sports cars. It's also barely any bigger in the back than a 911 (exaggerating but it isn't a proper 4 seater for grown ups). I don't really understand how such a big car can be so small inside.
GreatGranny said:
AlexC1981 said:
That's a good call with Autocar reviews as their reviews go into more detail on the handling side. In terms of handling they seem to rate them in the order as follows:
Great - Swift Sport / Renault Twingo (normal version)
Good - Colt (normal version) / Ibiza
Fair/poor - Picanto.
(I really must get away from the computer now and get out!)
You've got the day off to look at cars and you're till slumped over the computer talking to strangers at 13:18?Great - Swift Sport / Renault Twingo (normal version)
Good - Colt (normal version) / Ibiza
Fair/poor - Picanto.
(I really must get away from the computer now and get out!)
Stop fathing and get out there.
You're over analysing things.
With your budget I would go for a MINI Cooper or Swift Sport and sod the MPG/torque/0-60/BHP per tonne crap.
They will be the most fun to drive and keep their price especially the MINI.
I had my brother in laws MINI Cooper for 3 weeks last year and really enjoyed driving it.
I was commuting 80 miles per day and it was perfectly fine for those miles.
Even though it had 130k miles on the clock, was 12 years old and had led a hard life it still felt solid with no squeaks or rattles.
No idea what MPG I got out of it but estimate 40ish of mixed driving.
I'd certainly try the Swift if I were you - I did but it wasn't quite as good as I hoped - I was thinking it was going to be a modern day Saxo VTS or Peugeot Gti that I used to have and was a bit juicy on fuel
I tried the VAG stuff and if you're going by the Autocar reviews and can't stretch to an A1 1.4 ( Autocar rated it best for fun handling over the Polo/Ibiza ), I'd say the Ibiza seemed a bit crisper than the Polo on the twisty bits
Renault is probably worth trying too as white goodman recommended. I've not tried one but the old 5GT turbos were always a hoot and Renault usually have that that French brio and handling magic
GreatGranny said:
You've got the day off to look at cars and you're till slumped over the computer talking to strangers at 13:18?
I booked the day off to recover from V Festival It was raining all morning and I hoped it would have stopped by the afternoon. It didn't, it got heavier and I got wet and got to drive through some giant puddles. I'm not buying until I get paid at the end of the month anyway, possibly end of September if I buy at the high end of my budget.I visited the Suzuki dealership first, and wow! The Swift Sport is really nice. It felt right from the moment I sat in it. Sporty, modern, stylish and well put together. The gearbox felt precise, if rather stiff to get in gear. This was a current model which they started making in 2012. They cost about £7500. A 2011 model is about £1000 cheaper, but has inferior stats (123bhp, 148Nm, 1105Kg, 8.6/8.9 sec. 5-speed. 40Mpg) and a not so nice interior, though I haven't seen the older model interior in the plastic yet.
Just over the road is the Citroen dealership. The DS3 comes with a range of interior styles, all different levels of minging. They look good in photos, but so garish and OTT in real life. The throw of the gear lever felt a bit long, but felt otherwise ok. The DS3 suggestion is a good one despite the above. I wrongly assumed a d-sport would be a diesel, but it's actually a 1.6 turbo. The 1.6 VTI also sounds very capable. Pertinent stats below:
DS3 1.6 dsport. 150bhp, 240Nm, 1090kg 2940x1715 7.3 sec 0-60, 48mpg, £180 tax, insurance group 22. Approx £7500. Real World 39.1mpg £1738.21 years fuel. Handling reviewed as on par with MINI/Ibiza/Colt. Chipping gets +42bhp +55nm. Wowsers!
DS3 1.6 Vti 118bhp, 160Nm, 1075kg, 3948x1715mm, 9.6 sec 0-60, 50mpg £1573.24 fuel. Approx £7500. £130 tax. Real world 43.2mpg 109.76bhp/t, 148.8Nm/t.
Five minutes along the road takes us to the Kia dealership. Picanto looks like a solid little car. Quite striking externally, but rather uninspiring inside. Something inside gave away the fact it is a cheap car, but I can't put my finger on what.
I drove to a 2nd hand car dealer that had an old style swift, but couldn't find it
gave up after 20 minutes of driving around.Onward to the Seat dealership. They didn't have the Ibiza coupe, but they had the 5 door 1.2 tsi FR. Not bad, but the heater knobs creak when you grasp them. It wasn't bad at all and it somehow had a big car feel to it. It did have a surprisingly large boot. It was fine really, but not as nice as the Swift Sport and a bit "meh". I had a look in a Leon while I was there and that definitely felt a step up in quality over the Ibiza.
I didn't get to test drive anything unfortunately, but how much leeway can you get to test the handling of a car from a dealer you are not going to buy from anyway?
Next weekend I will have to find a Twingo, Mazda 2, pre-2012 Swift and possibly a Colt, Polo TSI and a MINI. I don't think I will have any surprises from the Twingo as it's a Renault of the same era as my own. The Mazda 2 is worth reconsidering. Now I have done the fuel cost calculations and also taken into account real world economy, the fact that I can buy one for £1500-£2000 less than a Swift Sport is quite significant. It handles well according to reviews, but it's noisy at speed and only has a 5-speed which is a bit poor.
There is something about the MINI that is so "look at me in my MINI!"
I can't quite come around to the idea of owning one at the moment, but I'm going to see one to see if it changes my mind, as undoubtedly it is very capable from everything I've read.white_goodman said:
You surprise me on the interior. Traditionally, I would rank them VW-SEAT-Skoda in terms of interiors. My dad had a 2010 Polo and I thought the interior was alright (like a mini-Golf really) and certainly nicer than the one in my old-shape 2008 Polo. The SEAT looks a bit sportier though, especially as a 3 door, so I get why you might prefer the SEAT.
Forgot to reply before. The Polo just seems a bit boring really. If the DS3 is too much, the Polo is too little. I'll have a look inside one as photos can be deceptive as I have recently found out after sitting in a DS3.
It looks like it's got those same creaky knobs the Ibiza has. Reminds me of an old Skoda Felicia.
AlexC1981 said:
I booked the day off to recover from V Festival It was raining all morning and I hoped it would have stopped by the afternoon. It didn't, it got heavier and I got wet and got to drive through some giant puddles. I'm not buying until I get paid at the end of the month anyway, possibly end of September if I buy at the high end of my budget.
I visited the Suzuki dealership first, and wow! The Swift Sport is really nice. It felt right from the moment I sat in it. Sporty, modern, stylish and well put together. The gearbox felt precise, if rather stiff to get in gear. This was a current model which they started making in 2012. They cost about £7500. A 2011 model is about £1000 cheaper, but has inferior stats (123bhp, 148Nm, 1105Kg, 8.6/8.9 sec. 5-speed. 40Mpg) and a not so nice interior, though I haven't seen the older model interior in the plastic yet.
Just over the road is the Citroen dealership. The DS3 comes with a range of interior styles, all different levels of minging. They look good in photos, but so garish and OTT in real life. The throw of the gear lever felt a bit long, but felt otherwise ok. The DS3 suggestion is a good one despite the above. I wrongly assumed a d-sport would be a diesel, but it's actually a 1.6 turbo. The 1.6 VTI also sounds very capable. Pertinent stats below:
DS3 1.6 dsport. 150bhp, 240Nm, 1090kg 2940x1715 7.3 sec 0-60, 48mpg, £180 tax, insurance group 22. Approx £7500. Real World 39.1mpg £1738.21 years fuel. Handling reviewed as on par with MINI/Ibiza/Colt. Chipping gets +42bhp +55nm. Wowsers!
DS3 1.6 Vti 118bhp, 160Nm, 1075kg, 3948x1715mm, 9.6 sec 0-60, 50mpg £1573.24 fuel. Approx £7500. £130 tax. Real world 43.2mpg 109.76bhp/t, 148.8Nm/t.
Five minutes along the road takes us to the Kia dealership. Picanto looks like a solid little car. Quite striking externally, but rather uninspiring inside. Something inside gave away the fact it is a cheap car, but I can't put my finger on what.
I drove to a 2nd hand car dealer that had an old style swift, but couldn't find it gave up after 20 minutes of driving around.
Onward to the Seat dealership. They didn't have the Ibiza coupe, but they had the 5 door 1.2 tsi FR. Not bad, but the heater knobs creak when you grasp them. It wasn't bad at all and it somehow had a big car feel to it. It did have a surprisingly large boot. It was fine really, but not as nice as the Swift Sport and a bit "meh". I had a look in a Leon while I was there and that definitely felt a step up in quality over the Ibiza.
I didn't get to test drive anything unfortunately, but how much leeway can you get to test the handling of a car from a dealer you are not going to buy from anyway?
Next weekend I will have to find a Twingo, Mazda 2, pre-2012 Swift and possibly a Colt, Polo TSI and a MINI. I don't think I will have any surprises from the Twingo as it's a Renault of the same era as my own. The Mazda 2 is worth reconsidering. Now I have done the fuel cost calculations and also taken into account real world economy, the fact that I can buy one for £1500-£2000 less than a Swift Sport is quite significant. It handles well according to reviews, but it's noisy at speed and only has a 5-speed which is a bit poor.
There is something about the MINI that is so "look at me in my MINI!" I can't quite come around to the idea of owning one at the moment, but I'm going to see one to see if it changes my mind, as undoubtedly it is very capable from everything I've read.
Absolutely - it's a long drawn out process to get decent test drives in a selection of cars, particularly if you plan to keep it a few years It was raining all morning and I hoped it would have stopped by the afternoon. It didn't, it got heavier and I got wet and got to drive through some giant puddles. I'm not buying until I get paid at the end of the month anyway, possibly end of September if I buy at the high end of my budget.I visited the Suzuki dealership first, and wow! The Swift Sport is really nice. It felt right from the moment I sat in it. Sporty, modern, stylish and well put together. The gearbox felt precise, if rather stiff to get in gear. This was a current model which they started making in 2012. They cost about £7500. A 2011 model is about £1000 cheaper, but has inferior stats (123bhp, 148Nm, 1105Kg, 8.6/8.9 sec. 5-speed. 40Mpg) and a not so nice interior, though I haven't seen the older model interior in the plastic yet.
Just over the road is the Citroen dealership. The DS3 comes with a range of interior styles, all different levels of minging. They look good in photos, but so garish and OTT in real life. The throw of the gear lever felt a bit long, but felt otherwise ok. The DS3 suggestion is a good one despite the above. I wrongly assumed a d-sport would be a diesel, but it's actually a 1.6 turbo. The 1.6 VTI also sounds very capable. Pertinent stats below:
DS3 1.6 dsport. 150bhp, 240Nm, 1090kg 2940x1715 7.3 sec 0-60, 48mpg, £180 tax, insurance group 22. Approx £7500. Real World 39.1mpg £1738.21 years fuel. Handling reviewed as on par with MINI/Ibiza/Colt. Chipping gets +42bhp +55nm. Wowsers!
DS3 1.6 Vti 118bhp, 160Nm, 1075kg, 3948x1715mm, 9.6 sec 0-60, 50mpg £1573.24 fuel. Approx £7500. £130 tax. Real world 43.2mpg 109.76bhp/t, 148.8Nm/t.
Five minutes along the road takes us to the Kia dealership. Picanto looks like a solid little car. Quite striking externally, but rather uninspiring inside. Something inside gave away the fact it is a cheap car, but I can't put my finger on what.
I drove to a 2nd hand car dealer that had an old style swift, but couldn't find it
gave up after 20 minutes of driving around.Onward to the Seat dealership. They didn't have the Ibiza coupe, but they had the 5 door 1.2 tsi FR. Not bad, but the heater knobs creak when you grasp them. It wasn't bad at all and it somehow had a big car feel to it. It did have a surprisingly large boot. It was fine really, but not as nice as the Swift Sport and a bit "meh". I had a look in a Leon while I was there and that definitely felt a step up in quality over the Ibiza.
I didn't get to test drive anything unfortunately, but how much leeway can you get to test the handling of a car from a dealer you are not going to buy from anyway?
Next weekend I will have to find a Twingo, Mazda 2, pre-2012 Swift and possibly a Colt, Polo TSI and a MINI. I don't think I will have any surprises from the Twingo as it's a Renault of the same era as my own. The Mazda 2 is worth reconsidering. Now I have done the fuel cost calculations and also taken into account real world economy, the fact that I can buy one for £1500-£2000 less than a Swift Sport is quite significant. It handles well according to reviews, but it's noisy at speed and only has a 5-speed which is a bit poor.
There is something about the MINI that is so "look at me in my MINI!"
I can't quite come around to the idea of owning one at the moment, but I'm going to see one to see if it changes my mind, as undoubtedly it is very capable from everything I've read.Took me about 2 months of weekends/calls etc to make up my mind from 5 or 6 cars
Some dealers don't want you to test a car without buying it first
Edited by s m on Tuesday 25th August 14:58
Leins said:
s m said:
I had the R53 Cooper S for 8 years from new (55 plate supercharged ) and you'd do well to get 40ish mpg imo even with non rfts on
I struggle to get much more than 20mpg 
The 1.4 engine I have now, not as pokey as the old s/c R53, but runs on witchcraft by comparison or something similar as it is pretty frugal. Great fun through the Alps as well
I average 40mpg in the Twingo 1.2 TCe GT but I drive it quite hard.
My best result was on a drive from Swansea to Nottingham and back. On the way up I was doing relatively normal driving 80ish when the road was clear, down to 50 through the road works etc. About 40 minutes of stop start crawling. Had the AC on the whole way etc.
On the way home I realised I might make it on one tank so adopted some better driving techniques, AC off and a solid 65mph all the way home and as little braking as possible.
I got 49.5mpg on that tank.
Just to give you some real experience for the 1.2 TCe
edit- also looking left to the speedo is no hardship. The only down side is it's easily readable for passengers. I like that it is digital because it takes the guesswork out of it. I know that 54mph indicated on the speedo is gps 50mph. So that's the speed I go through the average speed checks on the M4 at Port Talbot. I pass everyone and no fines.
My best result was on a drive from Swansea to Nottingham and back. On the way up I was doing relatively normal driving 80ish when the road was clear, down to 50 through the road works etc. About 40 minutes of stop start crawling. Had the AC on the whole way etc.
On the way home I realised I might make it on one tank so adopted some better driving techniques, AC off and a solid 65mph all the way home and as little braking as possible.
I got 49.5mpg on that tank.
Just to give you some real experience for the 1.2 TCe
edit- also looking left to the speedo is no hardship. The only down side is it's easily readable for passengers. I like that it is digital because it takes the guesswork out of it. I know that 54mph indicated on the speedo is gps 50mph. So that's the speed I go through the average speed checks on the M4 at Port Talbot. I pass everyone and no fines.
Blayney said:
I average 40mpg in the Twingo 1.2 TCe GT but I drive it quite hard.
My best result was on a drive from Swansea to Nottingham and back. On the way up I was doing relatively normal driving 80ish when the road was clear, down to 50 through the road works etc. About 40 minutes of stop start crawling. Had the AC on the whole way etc.
On the way home I realised I might make it on one tank so adopted some better driving techniques, AC off and a solid 65mph all the way home and as little braking as possible.
I got 49.5mpg on that tank.
Just to give you some real experience for the 1.2 TCe
edit- also looking left to the speedo is no hardship. The only down side is it's easily readable for passengers. I like that it is digital because it takes the guesswork out of it. I know that 54mph indicated on the speedo is gps 50mph. So that's the speed I go through the average speed checks on the M4 at Port Talbot. I pass everyone and no fines.
Useful info on the Twingo, thanks. Can you tell me what rpm is does at 70mph? Have you ever considered getting a remap? Superchips say they get an extra 18bhp and 28nm for £320. I would be tempted!My best result was on a drive from Swansea to Nottingham and back. On the way up I was doing relatively normal driving 80ish when the road was clear, down to 50 through the road works etc. About 40 minutes of stop start crawling. Had the AC on the whole way etc.
On the way home I realised I might make it on one tank so adopted some better driving techniques, AC off and a solid 65mph all the way home and as little braking as possible.
I got 49.5mpg on that tank.
Just to give you some real experience for the 1.2 TCe
edit- also looking left to the speedo is no hardship. The only down side is it's easily readable for passengers. I like that it is digital because it takes the guesswork out of it. I know that 54mph indicated on the speedo is gps 50mph. So that's the speed I go through the average speed checks on the M4 at Port Talbot. I pass everyone and no fines.
I just so happened to pass a dealer today with a 2003 MINI Cooper 1.6 and a 2009 Swift 1.3. I know the Swift Sport interior would have a few upgrades over the one I saw, but I have to say the pre-2012 interior is nowhere near as nice as the current one.
I'm still not sure on the MINI. The one I saw was 8 years older than the one I would buy, but I was not particularly impressed with the acres of silver painted plastic. I like the retro knobs and wiper controls. Not sure about the massive speedometer in the middle of the dashboard. It all looked a bit plasticy. I'll need to see a more up-to-date model I think.
I was a bit harsh in my criticism of the Polo interior in the photo above. It looks better than the cars I saw today.
Perhaps useful: IIRC the older Swift Sport has a pretty short top gear (Twingo 1.6 as well), the 6th on the newer SwiSp should make motorway cruising more enjoyable. Figures are out there somewhere so perhaps worth putting in a calculator.
And a long while ago I was looking at the Twingo TCe and remapping. From what I learned at the time, the stock injectors aren't big enough to deliver the 15-18 PS increase in max power most shops claim to achieve. Might not be state of the art anymore, but would check rolling road results.
And a long while ago I was looking at the Twingo TCe and remapping. From what I learned at the time, the stock injectors aren't big enough to deliver the 15-18 PS increase in max power most shops claim to achieve. Might not be state of the art anymore, but would check rolling road results.
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