RE: Mercedes-AMG C63 Coupe - official!
Discussion
scherzkeks said:
The M4 is also very, very track-focused. BMW said this themselves on the launch. The question is, why does one want to buy a saloon or coupe designed more for the track than for the road? It's inherently wrong from a conceptual standpoint. Give me a bit of extra weight and some refinement.
+1 I want an excellent road car first and foremost.
moffat said:
scherzkeks said:
The M4 is also very, very track-focused. BMW said this themselves on the launch. The question is, why does one want to buy a saloon or coupe designed more for the track than for the road? It's inherently wrong from a conceptual standpoint. Give me a bit of extra weight and some refinement.
+1 I want an excellent road car first and foremost.
To get a car that is an excellent road car (which the M4 is) AND is great on track is a great achievement.
Ares said:
It still is. My wife drove one and said it was easier to drive around town than her old 1-series, especially in full auto mode.
Many reviews I've read have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road. Mind you, whilst I'm happy to be proven wrong, I can't see 1600kg of executive saloon being that good on a track either. Cars like the M3/4 and this have always been Jacks of all trades (that's the whole point of them, as far as I'm concerned) and I see no reason to believe the current generation will be any different.
Edited by kambites on Friday 21st August 13:18
kambites said:
Ares said:
It still is. My wife drove one and said it was easier to drive around town than her old 1-series, especially in full auto mode.
Many reviews I've read have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road. Mind you, whilst I'm happy to be proven wrong, I can't see 1600kg of executive saloon being that good on a track either. Cars like the M3/4 and this have always been Jacks of all trades (that's the whole point of them, as far as I'm concerned) and I see no reason to believe the current generation will be any different.
Edited by kambites on Friday 21st August 13:18
That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
Edited by Ares on Friday 21st August 14:17
Ares said:
That said, I've not read a and review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
I don't know about fun (I didn't comment on that), but that Sutcliffe review of the M3 and Alpina D3 comes to mind immediately. The D3 came away looking much more suitable for purpose. scherzkeks said:
Ares said:
That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
I don't know about fun (I didn't comment on that), but that Sutcliffe review of the M3 and Alpina D3 comes to mind immediately. The D3 came away looking much more suitable for purpose. 
But Sutters still didn't give the M4 a bad review! Certainly didn't say it wasn't fun.
Ares said:
Try driving it rather than just reading reviews. Anyone that says it isn't fun on the road is aim for column inches or brown envelopes from somewhere else.
One could say much the same to anyone complaining this is too heavy. 
I probably will do (although it'd be the four-door saloon in both cases) when they're <£10k and we're looking for a new family car although ultimately it would be the wife's decision because it'd be her car. Generally I like the way BMW set up their M-cars but I also fully expect the majority of people to prefer AMGs. Neither is the sort of car I'd buy for my own use anyway.
Edited by kambites on Friday 21st August 14:27
Ares said:
Try driving it rather than just reading reviews. Anyone that says it isn't fun on the road is aim for column inches or brown envelopes from somewhere else.
That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
I've driven it.That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
Edited by Ares on Friday 21st August 14:17
Yes it's fast, very fast but it failed to excite me.
A major part of my disappointed would likely be down to owning a C63 at the time and stepping straight into the M3. My BMW sales chap, who I get on with well was surprised, so I asked if he had been out in a C63, his reply was no, so straight after my test drive of the new M3 I took him out in my C63. He then understood why I wasn't blown away by the new M3 and loved the C63's V8.
No noise and too linear a torque curve for me.
Outside they sound much better though.
Ares said:
High powered diesel being a better every day 'Real World' proposition than a slightly higher performance petrol. Not exactly shocking. I've been saying that for years....hence why I drive a 380hp diesel
But Sutters still didn't give the M4 a bad review! Certainly didn't say it wasn't fun.
Who said he did? His comments on the M4's diff, suspension setup, and overall nature fit here though. I seem to recall him referring to it as frantic. But, it's been a while since I've watched the review. But Sutters still didn't give the M4 a bad review! Certainly didn't say it wasn't fun.
The latest m3 is a cracking car feels lithe and has a really good front end, the only thing that spoilt it for me was the sound.
As far as weight is concerned I think they should be commended for getting it where it is, it's as big as a e34 m5 and weighs far less considering the EU rules/crash safety and equipment they come with these days they have put the effort in.
The M4 at 188kg less than the c63S will I suspect feel more nimble on the road, but I really do think the Merc looks a nice package and I'm quite tempted although that won't happen as I won't suffer the trade in bid I'll get on my M5.
I would also imagine the C63S with lashings of spec will be a very expensive car.
As far as weight is concerned I think they should be commended for getting it where it is, it's as big as a e34 m5 and weighs far less considering the EU rules/crash safety and equipment they come with these days they have put the effort in.
The M4 at 188kg less than the c63S will I suspect feel more nimble on the road, but I really do think the Merc looks a nice package and I'm quite tempted although that won't happen as I won't suffer the trade in bid I'll get on my M5.
I would also imagine the C63S with lashings of spec will be a very expensive car.
scherzkeks said:
Ares said:
High powered diesel being a better every day 'Real World' proposition than a slightly higher performance petrol. Not exactly shocking. I've been saying that for years....hence why I drive a 380hp diesel
But Sutters still didn't give the M4 a bad review! Certainly didn't say it wasn't fun.
Who said he did? His comments on the M4's diff, suspension setup, and overall nature fit here though. I seem to recall him referring to it as frantic. But, it's been a while since I've watched the review. But Sutters still didn't give the M4 a bad review! Certainly didn't say it wasn't fun.
Sutters' review was the only one of the "many" that was mentioned. And he didn't criticise it.
scherzkeks said:
Ares said:
kambites said:
Ares said:
It still is. My wife drove one and said it was easier to drive around town than her old 1-series, especially in full auto mode.
Many reviews I've read have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road. Mind you, whilst I'm happy to be proven wrong, I can't see 1600kg of executive saloon being that good on a track either. Cars like the M3/4 and this have always been Jacks of all trades (that's the whole point of them, as far as I'm concerned) and I see no reason to believe the current generation will be any different.
Edited by kambites on Friday 21st August 13:18
That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
moffat said:
Ares said:
Try driving it rather than just reading reviews. Anyone that says it isn't fun on the road is aim for column inches or brown envelopes from somewhere else.
That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
I've driven it.That said, I've not read a bad review on it? Where are the many reviews from that have criticized it for being too edgy and focused to be much fun on the road?
Edited by Ares on Friday 21st August 14:17
Yes it's fast, very fast but it failed to excite me.
A major part of my disappointed would likely be down to owning a C63 at the time and stepping straight into the M3. My BMW sales chap, who I get on with well was surprised, so I asked if he had been out in a C63, his reply was no, so straight after my test drive of the new M3 I took him out in my C63. He then understood why I wasn't blown away by the new M3 and loved the C63's V8.
No noise and too linear a torque curve for me.
Outside they sound much better though.
If AMG made the rest of car as good as the engine, it would be a belter. Alas, love them as I do, they (and Audi RSs) are all about the engine at, from experience, the deference of the drive
Ares said:
Totally agree on the engine noise. AMGs dominate that. I liked the linear torque curve. Instant power is addictive.
If AMG made the rest of car as good as the engine, it would be a belter. Alas, love them as I do, they (and Audi RSs) are all about the engine at, from experience, the deference of the drive
M4 + C63 engine would be epic.If AMG made the rest of car as good as the engine, it would be a belter. Alas, love them as I do, they (and Audi RSs) are all about the engine at, from experience, the deference of the drive
simo1863 said:
I agree when it comes to Germanic brands, or even these type of super coupes (suppose we shouldn't forget the RCF).
I've recently driven the GTS and then an F-Type R and I think the F-Type still sounds better though.
Interesting. Off topic but those are two of my favourite cars at the minute, do you mind a brief comparison of the two?I've recently driven the GTS and then an F-Type R and I think the F-Type still sounds better though.
groundcontrol said:
Great until an S-Class coupe pulls up and makes you look like a child.
Only ever see C63s driven by oiks so I'll pass.
Only ever see C63s driven by oiks so I'll pass.
I had a good hour or so in the W205 C63s saloon last weekend at a Performance Day. It is a great car, with a superb engine, and in coupe format just looks even better. Strangely I passed up the chance to take out the GT as I was pretty intrigued by the GLE 63 instead and time was a ticking! More fool me.
Maybe it's just me, but I used to prod constantly at the various buttons, settings and whatnots in various M3/6s and AMGs and whatever and never could quite feel the difference. But this time around in this latest generation of cars I can honestly tell the difference between Sport and Sport+ or MegaGalacticCruise mode etc. The variance in alacrity is genuinely there.
But the S63/5 Coupe is just levels and leagues above. If the W205 C63 is like living in a large country mansion with acres of English countryside, the S63 Coupe is akin to waking up in the master bedroom of a Vanderbilt mansion like The Breakers.
Like you say, you're berthed in the marina all happy with your 50ft boat, feet up, enjoying the sun with your missus and Pina Colada....and the next minute you're firmly in the shade as a Azimut 100 Leonardo slides in, and the owner has a wife who looks like Bar Raefaeli. It sort of pisses all over your existence.
[off-topic] My only criticism of the S63 is that it is just too quiet. The W216 CL63 is/was a beastly, demonic sounding thing. But while the W222 AMGs drive beautifully - the way it nurtures and caresses you around corners with the adaptive damping and Magic Body Control is something else - and the cabin fabulously well appointed, it's just too civilized. Whenever it was when I took one out, when I had a clear enough space to stamp my foot I was a bit underwhelmed: I expected a nasty and intoxicating gargle. Not a Bentley CGT-style "woofling".
I know it's pitched at a certain clientele, but even so, after the CL55s and 63s, I can't imagine petrolhead Captains of Industry feeding back to Daimler to, "...please make it a bit quieter next time"...
All AMGs should be noisy buggers.
Pesty said:
Interesting. Off topic but those are two of my favourite cars at the minute, do you mind a brief comparison of the two?
Sorry, been away for the weekend.not sure where to start with that one.
The GTS is much harder to live with day to day, feels wider, longer and not as practical (can get the dog in the back of the F-Type!). Totally subjective but to me it does feel more special though. I think it looks marginally nicer (although both are two of the nicest looking cars in production), the interior is better (despite that screen), as is the on-board computer stuff and if you compare RWD vs RWD then the GTS feels a lot more savage (I suspect that it's a lot quicker than is 'claimed'). It has the better of the two very good gearboxes too. I know the term is argued upon on here but the GTS feels more a supercar than the F-Type R and certainly gets a lot more attention (although that could of been because it was one of only three in the country at the time). It will almost certainly be rarer than an F-Type too.
The most recent F-Type R I drove was the AWD Coupe one and it's probably on par with the GTS in terms of outright pace. I was a little disappointed with it though. I was expecting it to be a lot more biased to the rear wheels than it was and in the end felt more likely to understeer. I'm not sure if it would in effect when pushed but it felt much more evenly powered front and back than say a Nissan GTR (which I once had a real brown trouser moment in when pushing too hard, expecting 4WD to save me).
It's still nice, incredibly nice in fact and you can't forget that it's significantly cheaper than the Merc and the noise is something to behold. Just letting off in second and third makes such a noise! I took it through the Manchester Airport tunnels, if I get time I'll upload a video here.
If I had to pick one and wasn't allowed to keep the difference then I'd have a GTS if it was a second car but an F-Type R if I had to use it every day.
Just my opinions but hope that gives some insight. PM me if you want to know anything else.
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