Which car best epitomises style over substance?
Discussion
AREA said:
Would that be why a Range Rover dealer suggested, given I was used to German cars, that I ought to lower my expectations should I be considering Range Rover ownership?
I'd be surprised if that was said.I like Range Rovers a lot. I'd have another one happily.
That said, there are many German cars I like too. I don't think that today there is an appreciable quality difference, although that was different in the past.
Zod said:
Artey said:
Slow said:
What does a saloon 320d do that a estate 320d doesnt do?
Its a different body style, doesnt have to do anything new.
Saloon handles better than estate, because design of rear suspension is different. You're welcome.Its a different body style, doesnt have to do anything new.
Zod said:
Artey said:
Slow said:
What does a saloon 320d do that a estate 320d doesnt do?
Its a different body style, doesnt have to do anything new.
Saloon handles better than estate, because design of rear suspension is different. You're welcome.Its a different body style, doesnt have to do anything new.
300bhp/ton said:
???
What of similar age, price and market segment has a nicer 'looking' interior? I know this is subjective.
e.g.
Similar market segment, price and period:
Sorry, got to disagree with the lot of you on this. I hired a car in SF in 2006(ish) and was supposed to be getting a Sebring (one of the most hateful things on four wheels ever) and traded it up for a PT Cruiser cabrio because cabrio in California in summer is a must.What of similar age, price and market segment has a nicer 'looking' interior? I know this is subjective.
e.g.
Similar market segment, price and period:
It wasn't the most engaging drive, but seeing as most of the drive was either getting out of SF, driving on the free way or driving very slowly around Yosemite National Park taking photos, it was a grat car for hte journey we hired it for.
Max M4X WW said:
What about..
Ok they did come with a 3.0 V6, but a 2.2 4cyl or HDi?
Depends what you want - they share platform with a car noted for being a very comfy ride without being a boat in corners and they seat 4 actual people - so the 'GT' thing is there in spades and they look great (even now - esp when close to 407 Coupes!!)Ok they did come with a 3.0 V6, but a 2.2 4cyl or HDi?
A better example might have been the Cougar - on paper a Mondeo coupe made sense because Mondeos drove well but the Cougar didn't for reasons lost in the mists of time (V6 too-heavy, other engines s
t, not enough work on the setup, focussed on the US market - pick one)Dion20vt said:
I nominate the Peugeot RCZ (not the R) mostly the 156bhp version....
Peugeot cracked the styling for a modern coupe, but is rubbish at everything else.
I've not driven one but in looks it beats the 2nd and 3rd gen TT IMO (tho it's colour-sensitive)Peugeot cracked the styling for a modern coupe, but is rubbish at everything else.
Edited by Dion20vt on Friday 21st August 15:59
I was parked between a nice 2-tone (silver/purple) and a Mk2 TT RS (in that mega blue) and I couldn't decide which one I'd like more - until I realised neither has room for a dog so... ;0
andybu said:
Well, I have just waded through 8 pages of posts to this thread - and am astonished to find that no one seems to have nominated the Ford Ka.
Until now.
All style, no substance. I got handed one as a hire car once "because we've run out of everything else - sir". I actually walked out the back to the pound to see if they were lying to me. Sadly, not. Some big exhibition in town on the same dates had hoovered up everything that ran. No room for anything resembling luggage, interior not big enough for a lanky six-foot four male. certainly not big enough for the two of us - a work colleague was along on that trip. [Come to that, I don't think I've ever, ever seen a man driving one...]. Any males on here brave enough to 'fess up to ownership??
I assume it sold well enough to the female demographic but where the Fiesta can manage a bit of style and some useful substance the Ka just cannot.
The Mk1 was a good car, I had one as a first car, but the Mk2 was based on a Fiat 500 (IIRC) and wasn't deemed to be as good as the Mk1.Until now.
All style, no substance. I got handed one as a hire car once "because we've run out of everything else - sir". I actually walked out the back to the pound to see if they were lying to me. Sadly, not. Some big exhibition in town on the same dates had hoovered up everything that ran. No room for anything resembling luggage, interior not big enough for a lanky six-foot four male. certainly not big enough for the two of us - a work colleague was along on that trip. [Come to that, I don't think I've ever, ever seen a man driving one...]. Any males on here brave enough to 'fess up to ownership??
I assume it sold well enough to the female demographic but where the Fiesta can manage a bit of style and some useful substance the Ka just cannot.
They drove brilliantly, once you wound them up.
Blanchimont said:
The Mk1 was a good car, I had one as a first car, but the Mk2 was based on a Fiat 500 (IIRC) and wasn't deemed to be as good as the Mk1.
They drove brilliantly, once you wound them up.
The MK1 was exactly the opposite of style over substance. Good car, ruined by the styling and so driven by people who would never care about the handling. They drove brilliantly, once you wound them up.
Oh for the days when hatchbacks were slow, light, agile and lots of fun! The last time I drove a good cross-section of what's on offer, they all felt like small saloons.
irocfan said:
how's about these two?
Although badly built and very prone to rot (which I guess would be one way of making it of little substance) they weren't that bad for the time being quicker than the equivalent Alfa and cheaper too.It takes guts for a mainstream manufacturer to make a small cheap mid engined sports car.
burningdinos said:
300bhp/ton said:
burningdinos said:
white_goodman said:
burningdinos said:
Since most of my choices are already mentioned...
S197 Mustang. The return of the good looks for the Mustang, available with a live rear axle (in 2005!) and a 300hp 4.6 V8. Or a 4 liter V6 with 210 rampaging ponies.
It is what it is though. A Mustang, which is a back-to-basics muscle car, hence the live axle comes with the territory, as does tuning (the stock 4.6 V8 is just a blank canvas to be tweaked).S197 Mustang. The return of the good looks for the Mustang, available with a live rear axle (in 2005!) and a 300hp 4.6 V8. Or a 4 liter V6 with 210 rampaging ponies.
Isn't that a bit like criticising a 911 for having a crap boot or an MX5 for not having more than 2 seats and a proper roof?
I agree with you that a Mustang should only have a V8 engine though, although to be fair the later 5.0 V8 and even the V6 models had significantly more power.
Oh no, I'm starting to sound like 300!
I left the "Five-Oh" out on purpose. Also the Shelby variants - Remember the later GT500 (2011?) had over 600hp. What it couldn't conquer with agility it would smash with brute force
But that early V6 version. No. Just no.
It's worth mentioning that in the mid-2000's most european six cylinder had something in the 200-250 hp range. Remember, from smaller displacements, rarely exceeding 3.2 litre. Most of them sound better, too.
Honestly I'm not sure if you're trolling or not so I rest my case.
And something rather important you are ignoring is torque. The V6 still offers plenty of low end grunt. 240lb ft @ 3500rpm vs say 145lb ft @ 5900rpm for the Civic Type R. That's a HUGE difference!
| S197 Mustang V6 | 210bhp | 240lb ft | 0-60mph = 6.6sec |
Is sub 7 sec 0-60mph really a poor showing on what amounts to a fairly affordable mass market coupe?
A Focus ST is no quicker nor any cheaper.
As a nice comparison:
| BMW E46 330CI | 228bhp | 221lb ft @ 5900rpm |
So a similar era. The BMW marginally makes more power, but makes less torque and a lot less torque lower in the rev band. The BMW also weighs about the same (1505kg vs 1543kg). But in the US market the BMW probably cost 50-70% more to buy.
St John Smythe said:
OpulentBob said:
rohrl said:
Vince70 said:
How about the smart roadster..
Looks like a Lotus but with the performance of a Fortwo..
To be honest I quite liked owning mine I found the little car did turn heads.
Oh Lord. Do you even know what you've done?Looks like a Lotus but with the performance of a Fortwo..
To be honest I quite liked owning mine I found the little car did turn heads.
Nothing wrong with the Smart. We use ours for trips to France and covered 2000 miles in two weeks with 3 suitcases. These can carry more than an MR2 MK3, or an MX5 and are better on fuel, handle well and sound great inside. Affordable top down motoring with decent fuel consumption, surprising comfort and practicality and bags of charm and charisma. There's plenty to there in the substance in my view.
OpulentBob said:
rohrl said:
Vince70 said:
How about the smart roadster..
Looks like a Lotus but with the performance of a Fortwo..
To be honest I quite liked owning mine I found the little car did turn heads.
Oh Lord. Do you even know what you've done?Looks like a Lotus but with the performance of a Fortwo..
To be honest I quite liked owning mine I found the little car did turn heads.
lostkiwi said:
I'll jump on this one too...
Nothing wrong with the Smart. We use ours for trips to France and covered 2000 miles in two weeks with 3 suitcases. These can carry more than an MR2 MK3, or an MX5 and are better on fuel, handle well and sound great inside. Affordable top down motoring with decent fuel consumption, surprising comfort and practicality and bags of charm and charisma. There's plenty to there in the substance in my view.
Nothing wrong with the Smart. We use ours for trips to France and covered 2000 miles in two weeks with 3 suitcases. These can carry more than an MR2 MK3, or an MX5 and are better on fuel, handle well and sound great inside. Affordable top down motoring with decent fuel consumption, surprising comfort and practicality and bags of charm and charisma. There's plenty to there in the substance in my view.
They are awesome little cars, and they aren't lacking in performance until you start getting to reasonably high speeds. Certainly no style over substance issues with them, though I'd still like one with a manual box and clutch.
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