Which car best epitomises style over substance?

Which car best epitomises style over substance?

Author
Discussion

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
lostkiwi said:
Vince70 said:
The car was pulled due to warranty claims is a known fact about the car.. You must be extremely lucky
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Roadster
Ah yes the well known font of all things accurate Wikipedia...
It did point out the warranty claims weren't £3000 per car but actually €3000 - so about 33% less at the time it was canned.
If they are as good as certain posters are making out on here then they'd still be building and selling them.
That's utter BS and you know it. TVR's were great but they are gone. The Escort Cosworth was great, but shock horror it's gone too.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
pSyCoSiS said:
This hideous, heap of st

http://www.discountcabrio.com/images/categories/ch...

The Chysler PT Cruiser Cabriolet.

And before 300 starts defending them, - DON'T! A total and utterly pointless car. Why someone would want to spend the cash on one of them is beyond me. Plenty of other convertibles for similar money, by why on earth you buy one of them?!
So what other convertibles are in the same segment that are significantly better? At least the PT looks interesting (nice IMO) inside and out.

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
I recall the reviews of the BMW Z8 said the driving experience didn't match up to the looks at all.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
So what other convertibles are in the same segment that are significantly better? At least the PT looks interesting (nice IMO) inside and out.
rofl

You are either a brilliant troll of quite insane! If someone presented an actual toilet on wheels, as long as it was American, you would sing its praises and defend it against all criticism.

lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
I do like the look of the Brabus Roadster. But for the prices they go for they are just too underpowered imo.
There's no doubt the chassis could handle more power (shame the V6 biturbo never made it into production) but the power is pretty decent if you ignore the 0-60 and focus on what its good at - punching through corners with far more speed than many other cars can carry. In terms of its ability to cover ground they are quite surprising.

On the practicality front I'd mantain there is little in the small open top car class to touch them. I've just bought an r129 500SL and the usable boot space in that isn't a whole lot bigger than the total space in the Roadster Coupe given the fact its nearly double the size!

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
lostkiwi said:
Vince70 said:
The car was pulled due to warranty claims is a known fact about the car.. You must be extremely lucky
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Roadster
Ah yes the well known font of all things accurate Wikipedia...
It did point out the warranty claims weren't £3000 per car but actually €3000 - so about 33% less at the time it was canned.
If they are as good as certain posters are making out on here then they'd still be building and selling them.
That's utter BS and you know it. TVR's were great but they are gone. The Escort Cosworth was great, but shock horror it's gone too.
Don't Mercedes still build Smart cars of one shape or other though?

Edited to add : You might want to check your facts before posting 300 biglaughhttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by St John Smythe on Thursday 27th August 12:55

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
ORD said:
300bhp/ton said:
So what other convertibles are in the same segment that are significantly better? At least the PT looks interesting (nice IMO) inside and out.
rofl

You are either a brilliant troll of quite insane! If someone presented an actual toilet on wheels, as long as it was American, you would sing its praises and defend it against all criticism.
What is it with you people that you are so tunnel vision? I do not like American cars, I like "some" American cars. There are plenty that I don't like, or that don't appeal.

If you care to look at My Garage, you'll note I own Japanese, European and British vehicles too!!! And have owned a reasonable variety of vehicles over the years.


What I can't understand is how so many of you simply judge a car on the badge, your pre-conceptions or the country from which it hails.

This looks funky and interesting - period! And if it was Japanese I'm sure many of you would like it just fine.



It goes pretty well, has a range of engines like other cars in it's segment. Is practical too. And a million miles away from boring in the visuals department.

In the UK market you could go for something like this:


Which also looks funky, but is smaller. Probably more fun to drive, but less practical.


Or you could go for something like this:


Which frankly just looks dull. Practical, but probably no better or worse to drive than the PT.


Does the PT have more style over substance? Yes probably, because it has a lot of style/styling about it.

And I totally fail to grasp how anyone can say this doesn't look visually interesting and appealing.



anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:
St John Smythe said:
I do like the look of the Brabus Roadster. But for the prices they go for they are just too underpowered imo.
There's no doubt the chassis could handle more power (shame the V6 biturbo never made it into production) but the power is pretty decent if you ignore the 0-60 and focus on what its good at - punching through corners with far more speed than many other cars can carry. In terms of its ability to cover ground they are quite surprising.

On the practicality front I'd mantain there is little in the small open top car class to touch them. I've just bought an r129 500SL and the usable boot space in that isn't a whole lot bigger than the total space in the Roadster Coupe given the fact its nearly double the size!
Have to admit the biturbo would of been awesome. I guess it just comes down to for the price of a Brabus Roadster there are much better 2 seater convertibles on the market.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
What is it with you people that you are so tunnel vision? I do not like American cars, I like "some" American cars. There are plenty that I don't like, or that don't appeal.

...

What I can't understand is how so many of you simply judge a car on the badge, your pre-conceptions or the country from which it hails.

This looks funky and interesting - period! And if it was Japanese I'm sure many of you would like it just fine.
...
Does the PT have more style over substance? Yes probably, because it has a lot of style/styling about it.

And I totally fail to grasp how anyone can say this doesn't look visually interesting and appealing.
Those are all ugly and poor cars, but the Chrysler is almost comically dreadful looking. The interior is crap, too.

I have no prejudices as regards where the car is from. I actually quite like a lot of American cars, but that car is horrendous. Do you seriously not think it is ugly and bulky?

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
Don't Mercedes still build Smart cars of one shape or other though?
Yes, but not sports cars. Doesn't mean the car wasn't good. Just that they decided to stop production and focus on other things. Land Rover for instance have ceased production of the Defender and not yet announced a replacement. i.e. car makers sometimes change which markets are a priority for them.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Don't Mercedes still build Smart cars of one shape or other though?
Yes, but not sports cars. Doesn't mean the car wasn't good. Just that they decided to stop production and focus on other things. Land Rover for instance have ceased production of the Defender and not yet announced a replacement. i.e. car makers sometimes change which markets are a priority for them.
So it wasn't pulled for warranty claims as someone else posted?

lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Don't Mercedes still build Smart cars of one shape or other though?
Yes, but not sports cars. Doesn't mean the car wasn't good. Just that they decided to stop production and focus on other things. Land Rover for instance have ceased production of the Defender and not yet announced a replacement. i.e. car makers sometimes change which markets are a priority for them.
Smart started out life as a part of SMH (Swatch) and initially was a cooperation with VAG, however VAG pulled out before any cars were produced. SMH then formed an alliance with Mercedes in 1994 and the Smart as we know it was born. The initial split was 51% MB and 49% SMH.
This partnership developed not only the Smart for Two but also the first A class. In 1996 MB increased their share to 81% before finally taking over completely shortly afterwards in 1999 and renaming the company to MCC Smart Gmbh before changing the name again to SMART Gmbh in 2000.
Smart was never profitable for Mercedes so in 2005 they introduced a range of cost cutting exercises having lost almost 4 Billion Euros between 2003 and 2006. The Roadster warranty claims could only have accounted for €129 million on the basis of the €3000 per car. The Roadster was a victim of the cost cutting as was the ForFour (production stopped in 2006 and was not restarted again until 2014). The CrossBlade was also a victim of that cost reduction.


Speaking of cars with more style than substance... The Smart Crossblade has to be right up there:



pSyCoSiS

3,581 posts

204 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
FFS 300! In your opinion it might look good and funky, but you need to accept that not everyone agrees with your opinions.

Point is, every PHer is entitled to their own opinion, so I don't know why you take it personally and jump to the defence of almost ANY car that gets slated?!

I, too, have owned cars from most countries, so I don't judge them on snobbery values or stereotypical views. I've had various Land Rover products, a Lexus, an Alfa, Volvo, Saab, etc. But, I also have my own personal taste, and they are the types of cars I go for (and some people on here might not like those types of cars at all).

With regards to the PT convertible - I still reiterate that it looks st and that interior just looks naff! And you're comparing it to an Eos?! I think the Eos is in a different league compared to the PT!

In black, the PT drop top looks like a convertible hearse.

Edited by pSyCoSiS on Thursday 27th August 13:32

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
I don't like the PT Cruiser, but I don't like that MINI or the VW either.

I'm sure someone loves each of them though. Variety is good.

TheInternet

4,703 posts

162 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
pSyCoSiS said:
In black, the PT drop top looks like a convertible hearse.
Yet curiously nobody would want to be seen dead in one.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Don't Mercedes still build Smart cars of one shape or other though?
Yes, but not sports cars. Doesn't mean the car wasn't good. Just that they decided to stop production and focus on other things. Land Rover for instance have ceased production of the Defender and not yet announced a replacement. i.e. car makers sometimes change which markets are a priority for them.
Smart started out life as a part of SMH (Swatch) and initially was a cooperation with VAG, however VAG pulled out before any cars were produced. SMH then formed an alliance with Mercedes in 1994 and the Smart as we know it was born. The initial split was 51% MB and 49% SMH.
This partnership developed not only the Smart for Two but also the first A class. In 1996 MB increased their share to 81% before finally taking over completely shortly afterwards in 1999 and renaming the company to MCC Smart Gmbh before changing the name again to SMART Gmbh in 2000.
Smart was never profitable for Mercedes so in 2005 they introduced a range of cost cutting exercises having lost almost 4 Billion Euros between 2003 and 2006. The Roadster warranty claims could only have accounted for €129 million on the basis of the €3000 per car. The Roadster was a victim of the cost cutting as was the ForFour (production stopped in 2006 and was not restarted again until 2014). The CrossBlade was also a victim of that cost reduction.


Speaking of cars with more style than substance... The Smart Crossblade has to be right up there:
Thanks for clearing it up. So they pulled it as it was making a loss. As I posted before, I guess they'd still be making them if it were the opposite.

TankRizzo

7,245 posts

192 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
What is it with you people that you are so tunnel vision? I do not like American cars, I like "some" American cars. There are plenty that I don't like, or that don't appeal.

If you care to look at My Garage, you'll note I own Japanese, European and British vehicles too!!! And have owned a reasonable variety of vehicles over the years.


What I can't understand is how so many of you simply judge a car on the badge, your pre-conceptions or the country from which it hails.

This looks funky and interesting - period! And if it was Japanese I'm sure many of you would like it just fine.

My parents owned one for five years, the 2.4 Ltd convertible. It was without doubt the worst car I have ever driven and looked utterly ridiculous. On top of that it was ruinously expensive to run as it kept going wrong (electrical issues, bodywork). The economy was poor and it was slow. It was also impractical; the boot space was rubbish for a reasonably large car (because of the roof) and getting two adults in the rear was a squeeze. The turning circle is also comically poor. I am notoriously generous to poor cars, but this had no redeeming features apart from good air-con.


lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
lostkiwi said:
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Don't Mercedes still build Smart cars of one shape or other though?
Yes, but not sports cars. Doesn't mean the car wasn't good. Just that they decided to stop production and focus on other things. Land Rover for instance have ceased production of the Defender and not yet announced a replacement. i.e. car makers sometimes change which markets are a priority for them.
Smart started out life as a part of SMH (Swatch) and initially was a cooperation with VAG, however VAG pulled out before any cars were produced. SMH then formed an alliance with Mercedes in 1994 and the Smart as we know it was born. The initial split was 51% MB and 49% SMH.
This partnership developed not only the Smart for Two but also the first A class. In 1996 MB increased their share to 81% before finally taking over completely shortly afterwards in 1999 and renaming the company to MCC Smart Gmbh before changing the name again to SMART Gmbh in 2000.
Smart was never profitable for Mercedes so in 2005 they introduced a range of cost cutting exercises having lost almost 4 Billion Euros between 2003 and 2006. The Roadster warranty claims could only have accounted for €129 million on the basis of the €3000 per car. The Roadster was a victim of the cost cutting as was the ForFour (production stopped in 2006 and was not restarted again until 2014). The CrossBlade was also a victim of that cost reduction.


Speaking of cars with more style than substance... The Smart Crossblade has to be right up there:
Thanks for clearing it up. So they pulled it as it was making a loss. As I posted before, I guess they'd still be making them if it were the opposite.
Can you not read? The whole business was making a loss so they rationalised back to one model which was their core model - the ForTwo. EVERYTHING else was canned. Losses from the roadsters would have accounted for less than 5% of the total if the figure of €3000 per car is to be believed.
It was very nearly reincarnated as the Dodge Slingshot which was still being shown around the motor show circuit in 2008.
It was also nearly reincarnated as part of Project Kimber.
It can't have been all that bad if it nearly made it back again.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
lostkiwi said:

It was also nearly reincarnated as part of Project Kimber.
It can't have been all that bad if it nearly made it back again.
By that logic it also can't of been all that good or it would of made it back lol.

lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Thursday 27th August 2015
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
lostkiwi said:

It was also nearly reincarnated as part of Project Kimber.
It can't have been all that bad if it nearly made it back again.
By that logic it also can't of been all that good or it would of made it back lol.
By your logic.
The reason Project Kimber never went ahead is they couldn't raise the funds. The tooling was purchased from Smart Gmbh in 2007 but given the timing of the economic crisis it fell flat before any cars were made. The project died in 2008. Nothing to do with the car itself.