Which car best epitomises style over substance?
Discussion
lostkiwi said:
St John Smythe said:
lostkiwi said:
It was also nearly reincarnated as part of Project Kimber.
It can't have been all that bad if it nearly made it back again.
The reason Project Kimber never went ahead is they couldn't raise the funds. The tooling was purchased from Smart Gmbh in 2007 but given the timing of the economic crisis it fell flat before any cars were made. The project died in 2008. Nothing to do with the car itself.
edited to add : just saw you've got one in your garage which would explain the defensiveness I guess.
Edited by St John Smythe on Thursday 27th August 14:05
St John Smythe said:
So it wasn't pulled for warranty claims as someone else posted?
I suspect the reason it was pulled is unlikely to ever be known. Doubt it was for a single reason, or it could have been just one person high enough up decided they wanted to do something else.Warranty claims are cited as 'a reason', and it might be the case. The reality is, we don't know.
As far as warranty claims go, most of the warranty work was due to water ingress, specifically on the SAM unit, which could also cause wiring loom issues.
Remember pretty much all the other components are from the ForTwo. So if they weren't up to the task, they'd have required warranty work too on the ForTwo just as equally. But obviously smart kept on making the ForTwo - pretty much unchanged too.
So logic and evidence don't really support this.
ORD said:
Those are all ugly and poor cars, but the Chrysler is almost comically dreadful looking. The interior is crap, too.
Considering they sold a lot of them, lots of people don't agree with you.Motor Trend said:
Quite frankly, outside of Volkswagen's New Beetle, there's nothing affordable on blacktop that comes close to the visual wow of this surprisingly practical and little street-rod truckster.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/wagons/112_0008_2001_pt_cruiser/Motor Trend said:
So when a long-awaited, hyped-up vehicle like the Chrysler PT Cruiser finally materializes, we always ask ourselves: Will it fly? There's often a big difference between what turns heads at an auto show and what will actually sell.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/wagons/112_0003_2001_chrysler_pt_cruiser/viewall.htmlMotor Trend said:
Consumers quickly got a lesson in economics as high demand for the PT resulted in a rash of nationwide dealer markups, with less-than-ethical types asking as much as twice the PT's $16,000 base price. The Toluca, Mexico, plant, which manufacturers the PT, was finally able to meet demand just about the same time Motor Trend named it the 2001 Car of the Year
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/wagons/112_0301_2001_chrysler_pt_cruiser/Motor Trend said:
much praise was paid to Chrysler's design flair and attention to detail displayed by the interior's body-color dash inserts, suede seat inserts, substantial-feeling door handles, user-friendly Toyota-like cruise-control stalk, and the cue-ball shifter knob.
Motor Trend said:
Although the Cruiser's initial wow factor has faded, the PT remains an attractive, versatile family/cargo hauler with a value-packed price attainable by most new-car buyers. Consumers voted with their wallets and saw fit to drive about 145,000 PTs off of dealer lots in 2001 alone
St John Smythe said:
So they couldn't get investment to start reproducing a really good car that lost money when Mercedes where manufacturing it? Those investors were mad. What a missed opportunity.
edited to add : just saw you've got one in your garage which would explain the defensiveness I guess.
You didn't need to check my garage to know I had one - if you read my posts you'll see I said as much further up this thread. edited to add : just saw you've got one in your garage which would explain the defensiveness I guess.
Edited by St John Smythe on Thursday 27th August 14:05
Having one explains why I know it to have more substance than those who don't / have never had one. 300 has one too so on this topic we are in accord.
2007/8 if you remember was the time of the banking collapse. No one could get money to invest at that time if you recall. In my opinion even if it was the best car in the world (which I will happily admit it isn't) no one would have secured funding.
The whole argument about why it went out of production is largely irrelevant in terms of substance vs style. It has style but it does also have substance.
Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 27th August 14:44
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
So it wasn't pulled for warranty claims as someone else posted?
I suspect the reason it was pulled is unlikely to ever be known. Doubt it was for a single reason, or it could have been just one person high enough up decided they wanted to do something else.Warranty claims are cited as 'a reason', and it might be the case. The reality is, we don't know.
As far as warranty claims go, most of the warranty work was due to water ingress, specifically on the SAM unit, which could also cause wiring loom issues.
Remember pretty much all the other components are from the ForTwo. So if they weren't up to the task, they'd have required warranty work too on the ForTwo just as equally. But obviously smart kept on making the ForTwo - pretty much unchanged too.
So logic and evidence don't really support this.
lostkiwi said:
You didn't need to check my garage to know I had one - if you read my posts you'll see I said as much further up this thread.
Having one explains why I know it to have more substance than those who don't / have never had one. 300 has one too so on this topic we are in accord.
2007/8 if you remember was the time of the banking collapse. No one could get money to invest at that time if you recall. In my opinion even if it was the best car in the world (which I will happily admit it isn't) no one would have secured funding.
The whole argument about why it went out of production is largely irrelevant in terms of substance vs style. It has style but it does also have substance.
Actually, you can get a lot more opportunistic investments in times of a crisis.Having one explains why I know it to have more substance than those who don't / have never had one. 300 has one too so on this topic we are in accord.
2007/8 if you remember was the time of the banking collapse. No one could get money to invest at that time if you recall. In my opinion even if it was the best car in the world (which I will happily admit it isn't) no one would have secured funding.
The whole argument about why it went out of production is largely irrelevant in terms of substance vs style. It has style but it does also have substance.
Edited by lostkiwi on Thursday 27th August 14:44
lostkiwi said:
St John Smythe said:
lostkiwi said:
St John Smythe said:
You're right it wasn't the warranty claims. It was pulled for not making a profit.
Now you're being boring. pSyCoSiS said:
FFS 300! In your opinion it might look good and funky, but you need to accept that not everyone agrees with your opinions.
Point is, every PHer is entitled to their own opinion, so I don't know why you take it personally and jump to the defence of almost ANY car that gets slated?!
I, too, have owned cars from most countries, so I don't judge them on snobbery values or stereotypical views. I've had various Land Rover products, a Lexus, an Alfa, Volvo, Saab, etc. But, I also have my own personal taste, and they are the types of cars I go for (and some people on here might not like those types of cars at all).
With regards to the PT convertible - I still reiterate that it looks s
t and that interior just looks naff! And you're comparing it to an Eos?! I think the Eos is in a different league compared to the PT!
In black, the PT drop top looks like a convertible hearse.
I'll defend 300 here - he posts something and everyone jumps on him for having no taste, he defends his position as most of us will do (ok maybe a 'little' more enthusiastically than most) and suddenly he's being a tPoint is, every PHer is entitled to their own opinion, so I don't know why you take it personally and jump to the defence of almost ANY car that gets slated?!
I, too, have owned cars from most countries, so I don't judge them on snobbery values or stereotypical views. I've had various Land Rover products, a Lexus, an Alfa, Volvo, Saab, etc. But, I also have my own personal taste, and they are the types of cars I go for (and some people on here might not like those types of cars at all).
With regards to the PT convertible - I still reiterate that it looks s
t and that interior just looks naff! And you're comparing it to an Eos?! I think the Eos is in a different league compared to the PT!In black, the PT drop top looks like a convertible hearse.
Edited by pSyCoSiS on Thursday 27th August 13:32
t? How does that work??PT Cruiser was not the last word in refinement - not even the penultimate but a lot of people liked it and bought it. It's not dynamic but in 'estate' form it is practical and different. I believe the expression is "job jobbed"
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