Advice please, stuck with a lemon on Finance.
Discussion
George111 said:
A turbo usually fails when the bearings fail, a recon turbo for a common car is usually £300 or so exchange and fitting doesn't take very long for a competent mechanic.
Usually.The 1.6HDi/TDCi, especially, does seem to have a whole raft of interesting failure modes, and there's a lot of inlet tract and oilway cleaning - or preferably replacement - that really should go along with the turbo replacement if you want it to have a chance of lasting.
As more and more turbos get replaced, the race to the bottom of the market on price has hotted up, and I'll let you guess exactly how much TLC's gone into this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301723070969
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271623288994
(includes gaskets? A good quality gasket set is damn near half that price alone...)
TooMany2cvs said:
George111 said:
A turbo usually fails when the bearings fail, a recon turbo for a common car is usually £300 or so exchange and fitting doesn't take very long for a competent mechanic.
Usually.The 1.6HDi/TDCi, especially, does seem to have a whole raft of interesting failure modes, and there's a lot of inlet tract and oilway cleaning - or preferably replacement - that really should go along with the turbo replacement if you want it to have a chance of lasting.
As more and more turbos get replaced, the race to the bottom of the market on price has hotted up, and I'll let you guess exactly how much TLC's gone into this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301723070969
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271623288994
(includes gaskets? A good quality gasket set is damn near half that price alone...)
The previous point about mileage over 6 years. The plan originally was that she was going to move closer to Bristol so she has good access to all her clients which would probably reduce her weekly mileage down to around 300 miles per week, and also at the time she wasn't self employed so re financing for something brand new after 2 years was the plan. Obviously not really do-able until she's been successful for a couple of years.
Thank you everyone for the replies. Any suggestions / advice is most welcome.
Roverload said:
I believe she is 8 months in to a 6 year contract.
UPDATE: Turbo has gone completely as a result of the inlet manifold coming up, some chunks of carbon made their way to the turbo and messed it right up. The garage who have the car advised a new inlet manifold and a new turbo. With labour we are looking at another £1000 ish bill. Again, alot of computer stuff needs to be done which pushes the price up. A dealer told me today another fault with the 1.6 that causes turbo failure is the oil feed to the turbo, apparently its too small and gets blocked easily, sump has to come off for that. Unsure if this has also been a factor. He then told me Tha neither he or any other respected dealer local to me will touch them with a barge pole as they always come back broken.
After spending that £1k, you won't get any warranty with the replacement. The turbo failures are that common on them, most motor factors won't supply turbos. To get a warranty from Garrett, their are 2 pages worth of parts that need replacing, it's crazy!UPDATE: Turbo has gone completely as a result of the inlet manifold coming up, some chunks of carbon made their way to the turbo and messed it right up. The garage who have the car advised a new inlet manifold and a new turbo. With labour we are looking at another £1000 ish bill. Again, alot of computer stuff needs to be done which pushes the price up. A dealer told me today another fault with the 1.6 that causes turbo failure is the oil feed to the turbo, apparently its too small and gets blocked easily, sump has to come off for that. Unsure if this has also been a factor. He then told me Tha neither he or any other respected dealer local to me will touch them with a barge pole as they always come back broken.
I spoke to my local Citroen dealer about the problem for a customer, they said when the turbo goes and the cars in warranty, they replace the whole engine as it's easier.
When you enter one of these engine in my suppliers computer, and select turbo, the screen genuinely flashes red.
That said, you can buy the stuff from eBay for about £300 iirc, and you're right about the feed pipe having to be replaced.
Out of interest, how much is she paying a month? It can't be a lot over that time frame?
loose cannon said:
Adblue in cars ffs well I never sorry carry on
Just to clarify, its not ad blu.These early DPF systems are what we called ADPF or additive DPF systems. They require an extra element of oxidiser in the soot in order to regen successfully at the allowable dpf temperatures. Its been so long ive forgotten the name of the actual chemical but it isnt ad blu. ad blu is generally for SCR systems.
These days we don't use additives as we have better DPF materials which can survive higher temperatures meaning we can burn the soot off at a higher temp without destroying the dpf.
te otherwise. northwest monkey said:
If it's a HP agreement (not a loan), once she's paid 50% of the finance (i.e. had the car 3 years) she can give the car back and cancel the finance agreement. Not ideal, but at least she'll only be stuck with the car for another couple of years.
For a VT the car has be maintained and in a condition consummate with the age and mileage.
mini me said:
Just to clarify, its not ad blu.
These early DPF systems are what we called ADPF or additive DPF systems. They require an extra element of oxidiser in the soot in order to regen successfully at the allowable dpf temperatures. Its been so long ive forgotten the name of the actual chemical but it isnt ad blu. ad blu is generally for SCR systems.
These days we don't use additives as we have better DPF materials which can survive higher temperatures meaning we can burn the soot off at a higher temp without destroying the dpf.
I'm sure you are right (I see from your profile that you are an Automotive Engineer) but can I ask what the difference is between these diesel engines and (for example) Land Rover?These early DPF systems are what we called ADPF or additive DPF systems. They require an extra element of oxidiser in the soot in order to regen successfully at the allowable dpf temperatures. Its been so long ive forgotten the name of the actual chemical but it isnt ad blu. ad blu is generally for SCR systems.
These days we don't use additives as we have better DPF materials which can survive higher temperatures meaning we can burn the soot off at a higher temp without destroying the dpf.
The latest 16MY Land Rover products are using Ad Blue with DPF systems. This apparently makes them EU6B Compliant.
Mastiff said:
but can I ask what the difference is between these diesel engines and (for example) Land Rover?
The latest 16MY Land Rover products are using Ad Blue with DPF systems. This apparently makes them EU6B Compliant.
In a diesel engine that's a joint-venture design between Ford and PSA...The latest 16MY Land Rover products are using Ad Blue with DPF systems. This apparently makes them EU6B Compliant.
Older PSA DPFs used Eolys fluid, not AdBlu.
Hamish Finn said:
Remember the agreement is between the buyer, the supplying dealer and the finance company. Three way agreement.
If the dealer is not honouring any warranty (or perceived warranty), then speak to the finance company. Explain what has happened.
This. Under the Consumer Credit Act, isn't a finance provider jointly liable?If the dealer is not honouring any warranty (or perceived warranty), then speak to the finance company. Explain what has happened.
Mastiff said:
I'm sure you are right (I see from your profile that you are an Automotive Engineer) but can I ask what the difference is between these diesel engines and (for example) Land Rover?
The latest 16MY Land Rover products are using Ad Blue with DPF systems. This apparently makes them EU6B Compliant.
Modern emissions regs mean we have a much lower target for Nox. This is generally met by a SCR (specific catalytic reduction) and Nox traps. On the more heavy duty applications we require ad blu to help along the SCR process due to the higher rate of Nox produced due to more load. The latest 16MY Land Rover products are using Ad Blue with DPF systems. This apparently makes them EU6B Compliant.
here is a link to an explanation of the VW system. Apologies for takingthis off topic.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/diesel/adbl...
xRIEx said:
Hamish Finn said:
Remember the agreement is between the buyer, the supplying dealer and the finance company. Three way agreement.
If the dealer is not honouring any warranty (or perceived warranty), then speak to the finance company. Explain what has happened.
This. Under the Consumer Credit Act, isn't a finance provider jointly liable?If the dealer is not honouring any warranty (or perceived warranty), then speak to the finance company. Explain what has happened.
feef said:
MG CHRIS said:
Its not so much the car more the choice of engine the tdci engine are the worst diesel engine of all time built by the French why ford ever decided to use them is beyond me.
The DLD-416 used in this car was built in the UKThe DLD engines were a joint venture between PSA and Ford and are used in PSA group cars, Fords, Minis, Mazdas and volvos and are made 50/50 between Ford (plants in Dagenham and India) and PSA in France
This particular engine is UK made
George111 said:
Roverload said:
UPDATE: Turbo has gone completely as a result of the inlet manifold coming up, some chunks of carbon made their way to the turbo and messed it right up.
I don't understand this and I'm not sure it would even be correct if I did.A turbo usually fails when the bearings fail, a recon turbo for a common car is usually £300 or so exchange and fitting doesn't take very long for a competent mechanic.
Yeah, but these engines are a nightmare to change the turbo on, and the turbo companies will not honour warranties.
IF you can get someone to honour it, you will need to change the turbo, oil supply and drain pipes. Then you need to remove the sump and change the oil pump.
It's a difficult and time consuming job, and one that is likely to bite you in the arse. I certainly would not be in a hurry to do this job, and I've done loads of turbos.
The root cause of the issue is the injector seals leaking, and infrequent oil changes. I bet you will find leaking injectors.
Personally I would get rid of it and buy a something else - older and more relaible. An old Pug 406 2.0 hdi would be a good bet. £500 and sorted.
Sorry for your trouble, but changing the turbo will be the start of a pile more.
IF you can get someone to honour it, you will need to change the turbo, oil supply and drain pipes. Then you need to remove the sump and change the oil pump.
It's a difficult and time consuming job, and one that is likely to bite you in the arse. I certainly would not be in a hurry to do this job, and I've done loads of turbos.
The root cause of the issue is the injector seals leaking, and infrequent oil changes. I bet you will find leaking injectors.
Personally I would get rid of it and buy a something else - older and more relaible. An old Pug 406 2.0 hdi would be a good bet. £500 and sorted.
Sorry for your trouble, but changing the turbo will be the start of a pile more.
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