RE: Mustang vs. 370Z NISMO vs. M3: Dab of oppo(sition)

[300bhp/ton]

ewenm said:

The LHD/RHD thing does matter to many, so for many there are no used Mustangs available for consideration here.

I thought it was a fairly well balanced article (it's really not a car review) that mirrors plenty of threads on here - I've got £30k to spend on a sporty coupe, what do I go for? I've been suggesting the Mustang on all of those threads

I know

But it always seems this way. Mention any American car and it's always compared to something costing 50-100%+ more money.

This is still doing this to an extent, just changing the tune a little to compare it to used cars.

Which you don't exactly get mentioned with other cars of none American ilk.



How many Cayman or Boxster reviews/articles then suggest punters should also look at used Ferrari's for instance?


A more balanced review would be to say, if you are seriously considering spending your own money on a new BMW 420i or 428i, then the Mustang is a viable alternative.

[unpc]

300bhp/ton said:

I know


A more balanced review would be to say, if you are seriously considering spending your own money on a new BMW 420i or 428i, then the Mustang is a viable alternative.

Exactly. The 428i is pretty much bang on the same price or alternatively a C250 coupe. I'm tired of this new versus old st as there's a ton of what you could have bought for £33k or whatever. Fact is the Mustang really has no natural competitors in Europe but it still makes everything else look overpriced.

[GTID]

daveco said:

I wouldn't think twice about this.

The engine in the M3 is phenomenal!

And their value is likely to start going up considering it's the greatest NA //M engine ever created imo.

Would be the M3 for me to.

As you say an amazing engine! Derived from the S85 M5/M6 engine, and that was a masterpiece!

[300bhp/ton]

daveco said:

The engine in the M3 is phenomenal!

And their value is likely to start going up considering it's the greatest NA //M engine ever created imo.

You honestly think a 4 year old BMW is at the bottom of it's depreciation curve???

[MIP1983]

For the same money, v8, rwd?

How about this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

[MuscleSaloon]

Crowds said:

MuscleSaloon said:

daveco said:

The engine in the M3 is phenomenal!

But deeply flawed from an engineering point of view .. so many con rod bearing issues and failures even on low milers .. a very risky proposition without BMW warranty IMO !

Edited by MuscleSaloon on Wednesday 26th August 09:08

I've heard of one or two with bottom end issues, I wouldn't say its a wide spread issue, end of the day its a v8 engine that's revs to over 8k one or two are going to have probs. Compare it to the RS4 of a similar age and look at the problems they have!

The only commonish issue id say is throttle actuators, but then these can be repaired and upgrade for around 500 for the pair.

Additionally I don't think an engine that was voted engine of the year 5 years running can be described as Deeply flawed.. :P

Crowds

Edited by Crowds on Wednesday 26th August 12:40

Agreed its not wide spread as such but there are still plenty of documented cases. It would always worry me not knowing the condition of the big end shells!

I was on the verge of buying a mint 26K mile M3 V8 from a private seller when a mate of mine had his 23K mile one fail catastrophically, needless to say that put me off more than a little! Fortunately he had BMW warranty, even so it was still a real load of hassle for him to sort out. Don't know the final cost but £14K was mentioned early on!

I'd still love one, but it would absolutely have to have BMW warranty, its essential.

Hopefully the Ford Coyote big end shells are not so likely to look like this one does after just 24K! ....

[ORD]

E90 M3 is better in every respect, isnt it? No slower, even nicer engine, much better interior, better handling.

[Quinny]

MIP1983 said:

For the same money, v8, rwd?

How about this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

9 years old and 80k miles.......?New clutch costs around £3k if it hasn't had one it'll need one soon


GOOD LUCK......you'll need it

[300bhp/ton]

ORD said:

E90 M3 is better in every respect, isnt it? No slower, even nicer engine, much better interior, better handling.

It's also not new, out of warranty and used.

And on a personal note, doesn't look very nice overall, doesn't look very good compared to other road cars, looks like a 3 Series infact. And most have a nasty horrid dull interior that only dull people seem to like.

[bodhi]

300bhp/ton said:

It's also not new, out of warranty and used.

And on a personal note, doesn't look very nice overall, doesn't look very good compared to other road cars, looks like a 3 Series infact. And most have a nasty horrid dull interior that only dull people seem to like.

Hmmm. US car fan accuses another manufacturer of having a nasty horrid interior. Pretty sure Alanis would have a field day with that one.

Out of interest, have the US manufacturers run out of their stocks of interior clocks from a 1983 Escort Ghia yet? Or figured out that you can get plastic from other places than recycled Milk Tray cartons?

However I must be dull, as I'd take the second hand M3 every day of the week. Strange world we live in where a V8 that revs past 8000 rpm hooked up to the rear wheels via an LSD is dull, but hey ho. Pretty sure if I was behind the wheel of an E92 M3 I'd be far too busy grinning to car if the car was a bit dull in some people's eyes.

[Crowds]

MuscleSaloon said:

Crowds said:

MuscleSaloon said:

daveco said:

The engine in the M3 is phenomenal!

But deeply flawed from an engineering point of view .. so many con rod bearing issues and failures even on low milers .. a very risky proposition without BMW warranty IMO !

Edited by MuscleSaloon on Wednesday 26th August 09:08

I've heard of one or two with bottom end issues, I wouldn't say its a wide spread issue, end of the day its a v8 engine that's revs to over 8k one or two are going to have probs. Compare it to the RS4 of a similar age and look at the problems they have!

The only commonish issue id say is throttle actuators, but then these can be repaired and upgrade for around 500 for the pair.

Additionally I don't think an engine that was voted engine of the year 5 years running can be described as Deeply flawed.. :P

Crowds

Edited by Crowds on Wednesday 26th August 12:40

Agreed its not wide spread as such but there are still plenty of documented cases. It would always worry me not knowing the condition of the big end shells!

I was on the verge of buying a mint 26K mile M3 V8 from a private seller when a mate of mine had his 23K mile one fail catastrophically, needless to say that put me off more than a little! Fortunately he had BMW warranty, even so it was still a real load of hassle for him to sort out. Don't know the final cost but £14K was mentioned early on!

I'd still love one, but it would absolutely have to have BMW warranty, its essential.

Hopefully the Ford Coyote big end shells are not so likely to look like this one does after just 24K! ....

I run late 2007 E92 which has just turned to 50k, I think life's too short to worry it's regularly serviced and warmed up before use but it does seem the limiter! Oh and I don't have warranty haha!

[300bhp/ton]

bodhi said:

Hmmm. US car fan accuses another manufacturer of having a nasty horrid interior. Pretty sure Alanis would have a field day with that one.

Out of interest, have the US manufacturers run out of their stocks of interior clocks from a 1983 Escort Ghia yet? Or figured out that you can get plastic from other places than recycled Milk Tray cartons?

However I must be dull, as I'd take the second hand M3 every day of the week. Strange world we live in where a V8 that revs past 8000 rpm hooked up to the rear wheels via an LSD is dull, but hey ho. Pretty sure if I was behind the wheel of an E92 M3 I'd be far too busy grinning to car if the car was a bit dull in some people's eyes.

I like how you moved the word "dull" around to completely alter what I posted very clever.

I said horrid nasty DULL interior.

That is one dull looking interior to me, no matter how soft parts of it might be.



This might not have as many padded parts, but at least it can easily be specced to look a bit more interesting and not so yawn inducing. But then compare the exterior visuals too. The BMW is just plain... well it's just that really plain, dull and visually unappealing.

[300bhp/ton]

And for the record, the 370z interior is fine too.



At least it isn't 'boring' like the BMW's.

[ORD]

The Nissan looks like a Micra inside, and the Mustang looks like a cocked up Focus. You cannot deny that they both have interiors that give away their non-premium marque. I wouldnt care much, but that stuff is important to a lot of buyers.

[Gixer]

bodhi said:

300bhp/ton said:

It's also not new, out of warranty and used.

And on a personal note, doesn't look very nice overall, doesn't look very good compared to other road cars, looks like a 3 Series infact. And most have a nasty horrid dull interior that only dull people seem to like.

Hmmm. US car fan accuses another manufacturer of having a nasty horrid interior. Pretty sure Alanis would have a field day with that one.

Out of interest, have the US manufacturers run out of their stocks of interior clocks from a 1983 Escort Ghia yet? Or figured out that you can get plastic from other places than recycled Milk Tray cartons?

However I must be dull, as I'd take the second hand M3 every day of the week. Strange world we live in where a V8 that revs past 8000 rpm hooked up to the rear wheels via an LSD is dull, but hey ho. Pretty sure if I was behind the wheel of an E92 M3 I'd be far too busy grinning to car if the car was a bit dull in some people's eyes.

Ho bloody ho. It's a V8 that can rev pass 8000rpm wow. The Germans have finally caught up have they? My V8 from 1990 can Rev pass 8000 too whoopy fking doo. Oh it does it without breaking too.


As for the interior comments, when did you sit in the new Mustang then? Or are you just another one of those that real of the same old comments like a broken record; oh it won't go round corners, oh it'll be st inside, oh it's too big..... Yawn yawn yawn

Having bought a new car earlier this year, I looked at all VAG's offerings and BMW's too, in fact I looked at pretty much everything and I'm dammed if I can see what's so fking good about a German car's interior. Most looked pretty mundane to me. Looks to me like some of you owners are so caught up in their marketing spill that you can't see by your own noses anymore.

[300bhp/ton]

ORD said:

The Nissan looks like a Micra inside

You appear to need an eye test...

ORD said:

and the Mustang looks like a cocked up Focus.

ORD said:

You cannot deny that they both have interiors that give away their non-premium marque. I wouldnt care much, but that stuff is important to a lot of buyers.

I'm not proclaiming them to be "premium" interiors. But frankly if premium means looking as dull as dish water, aka the BMW's... then frankly I'd rather opt for something else.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 26th August 15:40

[g35x]

Crowds said:

MuscleSaloon said:

daveco said:

The engine in the M3 is phenomenal!

But deeply flawed from an engineering point of view .. so many con rod bearing issues and failures even on low milers .. a very risky proposition without BMW warranty IMO !

Edited by MuscleSaloon on Wednesday 26th August 09:08

I've heard of one or two with bottom end issues, I wouldn't say its a wide spread issue, end of the day its a v8 engine that's revs to over 8k one or two are going to have probs. Compare it to the RS4 of a similar age and look at the problems they have!

The only commonish issue id say is throttle actuators, but then these can be repaired and upgrade for around 500 for the pair.

Additionally I don't think an engine that was voted engine of the year 5 years running can be described as Deeply flawed.. :P

Crowds

Edited by Crowds on Wednesday 26th August 12:40

+1

Throttle actuators are pretty much guaranteed to fail during the economic life of the car.

Con rod bearing issues are pretty rare.

[J4CKO]

Obviously what BMW save on substandard big end bearings, they can lavish on the interior plastics !

[V8 TEJ]

Gixer said:

...and I'm dammed if I can see what's so fking good about a German car's interior. Most looked pretty mundane to me. Looks to me like some of you owners are so caught up in their marketing spill that you can't see by your own noses anymore.

Yes, fully agree. Sadly it's the way things have become.

[bodhi]

Gixer said:

Ho bloody ho. It's a V8 that can rev pass 8000rpm wow. The Germans have finally caught up have they? My V8 from 1990 can Rev pass 8000 too whoopy fking doo. Oh it does it without breaking too.


As for the interior comments, when did you sit in the new Mustang then? Or are you just another one of those that real of the same old comments like a broken record; oh it won't go round corners, oh it'll be st inside, oh it's too big..... Yawn yawn yawn

Having bought a new car earlier this year, I looked at all VAG's offerings and BMW's too, in fact I looked at pretty much everything and I'm dammed if I can see what's so fking good about a German car's interior. Most looked pretty mundane to me. Looks to me like some of you owners are so caught up in their marketing spill that you can't see by your own noses anymore.

Oh dear. Hit a nerve did I?

Frankly, what the interior is like is fairly low down my list of priorities, as long as it does the job and doesn't look too cheap and nasty I don't really have too much of an issue. I don;t think I'd ever suggest BMW Interiors were in posession of much flair, but then that's not really how they're designed - they're designed so everything is clearly visible and within easy reach of the driver, which to me sounds sensible, if not particularly interesting. But is it a nicer place to be than any US car I've ever sat in? Most definitely.

All I was saying was, to claim the interior of a 3 series is nasty after some of the utter abominations to come out of the US was a tad on the ironic side. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot I like about US cars, and there are a couple that would end up in my dream garage (Viper, probably a Charger), but they are in there despite the cheap and nasty interior. Even the Tesla appears to be made from old milk cartons - as anyone who's seen the state of the inside of some of the taxis at Schipol will attest.

So calm down dear, no need to get sand in your vagina just because I'm looking for something different from a car. I do find your marketing quote amusing too. If you can find me another car out there with a straight 6 and RWD with a manual box and decent economy I am all ears. As it is I don;t really think such a thing exists, so I'll stick with the 1-Series for now.