'Deadly' Keyless Ignitions

[sebhaque]

HTP99 said:

With Renault's

I inadvertantly tested the start/stop system in my E81 (2007) 1-series. Pulled up at a set of lights, neutral, handbrake, engine off. I disengaged my seat belt so that I could remove my jacket - did so, plugged myself back in, relaxed. Come amber, I dipped the clutch (which would normally restart the car in s/s mode), but got no response. I had to go through the motions of get out of gear, disengage clutch, press button, re-engage clutch, get back in gear, panic mildly - by which point, the lights had gone back to red and I had a rather angry crowd behind me.

On the works (manual) 3008, the s/s disengages if you take your foot off the brake, in neutral and the car starts to roll.

I'm not particularly a fan of s/s systems - there can be some times when I want to make a quick getaway (i.e. if an emergency vehicle is approaching at speed), and waiting the extra second or two for the engine to catch could be the difference between an ambulance having to brake for me, or me just engaging the clutch in first and getting out of the way so the EV is unhindered.

[TooMany2cvs]

P700DEE said:

generally 0.5% at idle and 0.3% at fast idle.

Effects of CO
Concentration Symptoms
3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.

So the levels of CO in the blood are the same as the levels of CO in exhaust. That makes it VERY difficult, unless you're basically sucking on the end of the tailpipe - in which case, it's probably the lack of oxygen that'll get you first. Or burnt lips.

[mini me]

The Wookie said:

That sounds sensible and what I'd expect. I'm assuming it's a widely used system (as there are few that aren't), are the alternatives the same?

As far as I'm aware , there is no legal requirements for this so I can only speak for the systems I work with which is one manufacturer. Very few engineers involved in this sort of thing are stupid though so I would assume it's similar across the board.

[HTP99]

sebhaque said:

HTP99 said:

With Renault's

I inadvertantly tested the start/stop system in my E81 (2007) 1-series. Pulled up at a set of lights, neutral, handbrake, engine off. I disengaged my seat belt so that I could remove my jacket - did so, plugged myself back in, relaxed. Come amber, I dipped the clutch (which would normally restart the car in s/s mode), but got no response. I had to go through the motions of get out of gear, disengage clutch, press button, re-engage clutch, get back in gear, panic mildly - by which point, the lights had gone back to red and I had a rather angry crowd behind me.

On the works (manual) 3008, the s/s disengages if you take your foot off the brake, in neutral and the car starts to roll.

I'm not particularly a fan of s/s systems - there can be some times when I want to make a quick getaway (i.e. if an emergency vehicle is approaching at speed), and waiting the extra second or two for the engine to catch could be the difference between an ambulance having to brake for me, or me just engaging the clutch in first and getting out of the way so the EV is unhindered.

Re your last point; again with Renault and also many other stop/start systems that I have tried, the time that the car takes to restart is quicker than the operator getting the car into gear, there is no delay to puling away whatsoever.

[Hangcheck]

HTP99 said:

With Renault's, if you pull up to a stop and the Stop/Start system turns off the engine, as soon as the drivers door is opened, the car turns off permanently, it won't restart itself if you get out, shut the door and wander off.

I would imagine that other manufacturers employ a similar system.

The wife's Merc will start the car if switched off by Start-Stop as soon as you remove your seatbelt or open the driver's door.

[Zod]

Hangcheck said:

HTP99 said:

With Renault's, if you pull up to a stop and the Stop/Start system turns off the engine, as soon as the drivers door is opened, the car turns off permanently, it won't restart itself if you get out, shut the door and wander off.

I would imagine that other manufacturers employ a similar system.

The wife's Merc will start the car if switched off by Start-Stop as soon as you remove your seatbelt or open the driver's door.

Same with BMWs.

[rodericb]

I wouldn't immediately write it off as stoopid Americans until the evidence is given that it is. The article doesn't mention a specific model and there well may be genuine cases of it, possibly through the failure of some component making the scenario as described a possibility.

[Mr2Mike]

Hangcheck said:

The wife's Merc will start the car if switched off by Start-Stop as soon as you remove your seatbelt or open the driver's door.

Presumably it won't try if the gearbox is not in Park?

[Hangcheck]

Mr2Mike said:

Presumably it won't try if the gearbox is not in Park?

It's a manual so I can't comment sorry.

[Rubin215]

TooMany2cvs said:

P700DEE said:

generally 0.5% at idle and 0.3% at fast idle.

Effects of CO
Concentration Symptoms
3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.

So the levels of CO in the blood are the same as the levels of CO in exhaust. That makes it VERY difficult, unless you're basically sucking on the end of the tailpipe - in which case, it's probably the lack of oxygen that'll get you first. Or burnt lips.

No, these are concentrations in atmosphere.

CO will build up in the atmosphere of any enclosed space as the engine consumes the oxygen in the air; if your engine runs in your closed garage for any significant time CO will build up to a dangerous level.
If your garage is connected to your house you risk the spillage of CO into your living space.